High Speed Rail Announced

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03-11-2010
Waterways

High Speed Rail Announced

As I thought the system is geared to serve primarily London. All lines lead to London, with cross country non-existent. To get to Leeds should be minutes, but it will not be. The system should be meshed network, not an easy way for southern based businessmen to get to branch office and back in a day. They say they will consider Manchester to Leeds in consultations. The Northern Cities need to trade with each other more to release the dead paw of London. We always get the scraps.

Liverpool is the same distance from London as Manchester, yet the high-speed line will run through Manchester and to Liverpool it runs along slow existing track from Manchester making it 15 minutes longer from London. Liverpool is a side show.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2nusoxc.jpg

They say:
The necessary interchange stations and links to the conventional rail network should also be provided to reach the full range of potential destinations from outset, and the capacity released on existing lines should be used to expand commuter and freight services, with particular benefit for key areas of housing growth around Milton Keynes and Northampton.

So the existing West Coast Main Line Spur running through Mossley Hill may have commuter trains on it, and clearly electric freight trains from the docks.
03-11-2010
pablo42

I seen this on the news. It's about time we got the real Hi Speed trains as they do in France.
03-11-2010
scouse smurf

Can u imagine how expensive they'll cost to go on. They'll have a premium rate fare and we'll just grin and pay it
03-11-2010
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouse smurf

Can u imagine how expensive they'll cost to go on. They'll have a premium rate fare and we'll just grin and pay it

I went to London last year and it was £260 return. That was second class.
03-11-2010
wsteve55

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

I went to London last year and it was £260 return. That was second class.

Wow! Book ahead,and it's only £56!
03-11-2010
scouse smurf

I was thinking that too, Steve. That's still quite expensive though, ain't it
03-11-2010
ItsaZappathing

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

I went to London last year and it was £260 return. That was second class.

Ha, I went the year before and it was the same price then. Hated the place too!!
03-11-2010
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteve55

Wow! Book ahead,and it's only £56!

It was expense account. Still horrendous.
03-11-2010
wsteve55

As for the "high speed" link, the villages,and countryside, that will disappear,just so you can get to Brum' 20 minutes quicker....why?????
03-11-2010
Debra

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteve55

Wow! Book ahead,and it's only £56!

How far ahead Steve ? As i'm hoping to go down to London at the end of the month ..
03-11-2010
ItsaZappathing

Mine was just turn up at the station and go account. Mind you I did have to pay for her indoors too so it was expensive to me.!!
03-11-2010
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debra

How far ahead Steve ? As i'm hoping to go down to London at the end of the month ..

Just go onine, you can get it a lot cheaper than that. A friend of mine got it £14 to London.
03-11-2010
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing

Mine was just turn up at the station and go account. Mind you I did have to pay for her indoors too so it was expensive to me.!!

Dunno why it's so dear.
03-11-2010
scouse smurf

I remember having to go to Luton for work and I decided to do the cheapest option. Took me to St albans and I had to walk to another station. On another journey home, my first train from Luton was delayed and I was unable to get my connection at nuneaton. Ended up getting a train from Birmingham to Manchester which got in at 12am and had to get a taxi home from there. Cost me (well, work) over 90 quid. I'd told the taxi driver I wanted to go to Liverpool, when he got me back to my house in Bootle, he looked at his list and said 'this Bootle, not liverpool.' He told me it was more expensive , about an extra tenner... I'm never gonna put myself out for work again
03-11-2010
Debra

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Just go onine, you can get it a lot cheaper than that. A friend of mine got it £14 to London.

Thanks Pab , i'll have a look now ..
03-11-2010
scouse smurf

This one is a good site for getting ur tickets

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

I seen this on the news. It's about time we got the real Hi Speed trains as they do in France.

It will be the slowest HSR in Europe.
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by scouse smurf

Can u imagine how expensive they'll cost to go on. They'll have a premium rate fare and we'll just grin and pay it

The idea is to replace many air flights - centre to centre.
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteve55

As for the "high speed" link, the villages,and countryside, that will disappear,just so you can get to Brum' 20 minutes quicker....why?????

Not this propaganda. It will run through open countryside. BTW, only 7.5% of the UK is settled. Most is empty.
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteve55

Wow! Book ahead,and it's only £56!

It will cost you that in petrol
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Dunno why it's so dear.

Because we spent 1.5 billion on new Italian tilting trains, when these were invented here, made here and ran here faultlessly for over a year. Thatcher got rid of them.
03-12-2010
Waterways
There will be GREAT knock-on benefits from High Speed Rail & the electrification
.
What is happening:
1. In preparation the Liverpool-Manchester line is being electrified for the HSR - runs on normal track from Manchester.
2. Electric Trans-Pennine trains are to be run direct from Lime St - To Leeds, Halifax, Newcastle, etc to the east. Currently we have none. Shameful for a major city.
3. The Canada Dock Branch from Edge Hill via Anfield to the docks is being electrified - Better freight throughput and passengers for Liverpool FC and maybe Everton FC.
4. The Merseyrail metro City Line is being electrified - Currently the City Line is slow diesel and can be meshed into the bulk of the electric Merseyrail lines.
We need some tunnelling in Liverpool transforming the above benefits to something that really matters to us:
1. Transforming the Merseyrail metro
2. Releasing platforms to cope with long haul routes at Lime Street
http://i40.tinypic.com/70gj8i.jpg
Above: Linking the city centre underground section with Edge Hill using the Wapping Tunnel to the right
- We need some very short Tunnels - Just two short branch sections of tunnel from the Northern Line tunnel to the south of Central station into the Wapping Tunnel is needed.
- Merseyrail Metro opened up - This will open up the Merseyrail metro to the east and south City Line.
- Lime Street for long haul routes only - This opening of the Wapping tunnel will divert all local metro service from Lime St to the central underground section in the centre, releasing platforms for trans-Pennine and HSR trains. The cost of Lime St station expansion can be diverted to reusing the Wapping Tunnel.
- City Line merged into the rest of the Merseyrail metro - The City Line trains entering the city centre underground section via the Wapping Tunnel will transform the metro making it seamlessly meshed in. This is important for people over Merseyside to travel quickly, easily and comfortably around the area.
- New Logical Lines can be created - The metro would need new logical lines, maybe one from New Brighton to Bootle serving LFCs new stadium. West Kirby to St. Helens is possible as one logical line. They could be named the Lennon Line, Harrison Line, etc. This needs looking into of course.
- New Stations will be needed - The metro would increase in popularity and require new stations in parts of the network.
- Central Station would need expanding - Or moving down the line as was proposed.
- The shorts tunnels are the only major expense - Only one The branch tunnelling (started and abandoned in the 1970s) is the only major expenditure needed, as the electrification of the City Line is already being done by HM Government.
- Football stadia served - The Canada Dock Branch Line being electrified can serve Liverpool FC - and Everton FC if they have a stadium on the line. This alleviates traffic problems and nuisance to residents.
- A station for Kings Dock Arena is easily built - A station can be built at the end of the Wapping Tunnel at Kings Dock serving the Arena and conference facilities - another major benefit to the city.
- Fast Metro Line to the Airport Created - The new High Speed Rail will release the West Coast Main Line Spur through Mossley Hill and can be used for fast Merseyrail metro trains, such as an airport express train when a station is eventually built there.
- High throughput for freight to port - The new High Speed Rail will release the West Coast Main Line Spur through Mossley Hill, and a lot of the WCML backbone through the country, which can be used for fast electric freight trains making the port far more competitive, improving the local economy.
Liverpool currently does not even have a direct rail link to North Wales

Appalling when we can see the hills from the city. All it needs is a few hundred yards of track reinstating south of Runcorn - the Halton Curve and trains from Wales and Chester can get to South Parkway (airport) and Lime St. Or if the trains are dual-pickup (wires and 3rd rail) the North Wales trains can enter Liverpool Central station via the Wapping Tunnel, leaving Lime St platforms for long haul. The Halton Curve is a priority, as it is so cheap to do.

Outside of the North West Liverpool currently has only 4 direct rail links

Only London, Norwich, Scarborough and Birmingham are served direct. A disgrace for a major city. How was it to economically grow without proper transport connections? This HSR, trans-Pennine and Halton Curve reinstatement will make matters much better indeed.

We Need The Wapping Tunnel reused ASAP to Create an Expanded Metro

The HSR rail will take time as it is mainly new track, but the other electrification is under way. All it needs is the Edge Hill Spur, re-using the Wapping Tunnel, completed and the city will benefit immediately. If the work is started soon the electrification will coincide with the reuse of the Wapping tunnel. Two short branch tunnels and laying track in an existing tunnel that was used for 142 years is all we need. That is not a lot of money and a pittance to what this tram system was to cost.

If HSR does not come about, then the electrification and trans-Pennine trains is underway in planning and design. The Wapping Tunnel should still be brought on-line to improve the Merseyrail metro and release platform space at Lime Street Station
03-12-2010
pablo42

Nice one WW.
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo42

Nice one WW.

Pablo, the key is getting the Wapping Tunnel reused and the short branch tunnels cut ASAP. The rest is being done. This tunnel will transform Merseyrail metro, giving it so much more scope. It would then create economic growth. I congratulate Gordon Brown for implementing this electrification during a depression. Local people do not understand the benefits that Liverpool will gain. But we are one key link short to transform matters for Liverpool/Merseyside - the reuse of the Wapping Tunnel, the Edge Hill Spur Scheme. Infrastructure creates economic growth.
03-12-2010
pablo42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

Pablo, the key is getting the Wapping Tunnel reused and the short branch tunnels cut ASAP. The rest is being done. This tunnel will transform Merseyrail metro, giving it so much more scope. It would then create economic growth. I congratulate Gordon Brown for implementing this electrification during a depression. Local people do not understand the benefits that Liverpool will gain. Infrastructure creates economic growth.

Have to agree with you there WW.
03-12-2010
wsteve55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debra

How far ahead Steve ? As i'm hoping to go down to London at the end of the month ..

It's first come,first served,and the cheapest tickets are £28,single,but go up to over £300,for the same journey!!! I paid £60 going,and £28 coming back,last time,but the £60 ticket was 1st class,so we got a meal,daily paper,and constant drinks....lovely,could quite get used to it!

Have a look at www.trainline.com
03-12-2010
wsteve55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

Not this propaganda. It will run through open countryside. BTW, only 7.5% of the UK is settled. Most is empty.

No it wont/cant, read up! I'd just love to hear the "propaganda" from you,if it was through your village,sqeaky! sqeaky!:nod:
03-12-2010
ItsaZappathing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

Because we spent 1.5 billion on new Italian tilting trains, when these were invented here, made here and ran here faultlessly for over a year. Thatcher got rid of them.

Those Italians . See Jacky about that.
03-12-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteve55

No it wont/cant, read up! I'd just love to hear the "propaganda" from you,if it was through your village,sqeaky! sqeaky!:nod:

It is running through open country as straight as can be, not though villages. The NIMBY's are in Bucks. The so-called Home Counties would be the world's 10th largest country in wealth if it they were a country. They enjoy a lifestyle on the backs of the adjacent big city, London. That city needs fast transport communications. It has to run through the Home Counties, as they surround London.

I have no time for them.
03-12-2010
jennie

Hi Debra, did you find any train tickets cheaper, I always use.. www.thetrainline.co.uk. Click onto gadgets and tools, click onto find best train fares, I think that's what its called and enter the dates you were planning to travel.
I've found some real bargains, I once went to london for £9.00
03-12-2010
wsteve55

I do take your point(s),WW, but with the planned expansion of national air services,I think speeding up the trains is uneccessary! I can get to London in 2hrs,which I think, is perfectly acceptable,and doesn't require any "landscaping" or nimby extermination !!!:034::009:
03-13-2010
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsteve55

I do take your point(s),WW, but with the planned expansion of national air services,I think speeding up the trains is uneccessary! I can get to London in 2hrs,which I think, is perfectly acceptable,and doesn't require any "landscaping" or nimby extermination !!!:034::009:

Centre to centre rail is by far the best by a mile. Pollution-wise far cleaner, in air and noise as well. HSR will harm few as it passes mainly sheep and cows. The British HSR will be the slowest in Europe.

Personally I rather have Maglev which would leave this rail version standing. Maglev can link Mcr and Liverpool airports making them as one.

If the Home Counties NIMBY's get their way in theory it would be better for the rest as London would not be connected to HSR. BUT!! If London is not on HSR I bet it is cancelled.

HSR rail from Liverpool-Mcr-Leeds-Newcastle-Edinburgh would greatly assist those cities.
03-13-2010
pablo42

Nice one WW. Whatever happened to Maglev. I remember it on Tomorrows World years ago, yet there seems no progress except that small one in Germany.