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As I said in an earlier post, my Lark Lane comment was just throwing out an idea instead of constant negativity.Removing people from their homes to make way for a different type of person is wrong and Social engineering at its worstQuote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
An Oxford man living in a gangster road?! Sounds like the start of a play:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
All cities have run down areas but for some reason Liverpool is judged to be the worst,even before the riots in 1981
Yes. All roads that run onto the parks should be appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
I didn't want to get drawn in to a debate defending the poorer parts of Lodge Lane which are, as Waterways pointed out, the Smithdown Road end.
I thought it illustrated my point a little though, how such a prime location road/area can evoke such emotions amongst those who do not live here.
There are places in Liverpool I consider personal 'no go' areas that no doubt someone on here will be happy to champion as areas just starved government attention. I'd be surprised if I found out they were in such close proximity to the town centre and the city's largest park however...
Appealing to whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Anyone. The current road is not - to anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Your solution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Let the market sort it out. If there is a demand the houses will be bought out out and people will move in to renovate or demolish/rebuild. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
When considering Liverpool no go areas most people would consider Toxteth at the top of the list rather than Norris green or Kensington. I guess some people feel more scared in a mixed race areaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
This is a genuine question by the way - my point, throughout this whole thing, is that Lodge Lane has a perfect location ...... just sitting and saying it should look nice seems to be oversimplifying the debate a tad.
Really it would be a case of re-gentrification. There is and was some very nice property in the Lodge Lane area. After all Liverpool's well known Public School, Liverpool College, re-located itself on Lodge Lane in the late 19th C.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Lark Lane was of course once a very rough area. It was not just for the sake of it that the Aigburth Vale Police station was relocated to Lark Lane in the last quarter of the 19th C.
Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
Many years of being a student and after living in rented accommodation for a while - the 'no go' areas were Edge Lane (7 years ago) then Kensington (4 years ago) ....
I can't speak for the perception of those areas these days as I've settled in Toxteth.
I am genuinely surprised by that response.
Everywhere is a mix race area now or do you mean black area?Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
Being from Toxteth is still seen as a negative thing.The last time someone made a silly comment about it was 3 days ago! It's not strictly connected but when I was ill a surgeon once made a quip about living in the good part of Ullet roadQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Sorry - re-reading your post AngelCake you are just making a (valid) observation from an external view.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
I thought initially that it was what you considered more a no-go area, which was the bit that surprised me.
Granted, Toxteth, Moss Side, Peckham will always set off alarm bells for certain people. A large proportion of the population in those places are black. Most of those areas have suffered times of great poverty. People pick their prejudices for their own reasons. Those two I listed aren't, in my opinion, valid reasons for prejudice.
The north end is traditionally more white than south Liverpool. Toxteth has always been the most racially mixed part of Liverpool,not just a black area.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Have I not said i'm Toxteth born and bred? Well I am :) It's nice in parts like any other city!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Amen to that :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
I'm secular but accept the sentiment!
So am I.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
As am I, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
Are you a member of the gentry?Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCakeHave I not said i'm Toxteth born and bred? Well I am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
If not, i'd give some second thoughts about coming home ;-)
Great.Doubt we haave anyone in common though! :unibrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Lodge Lane (as a name, at least) was deemed so undesirable by some of its own residents that they had their part renamed Sefton Park Road!
This happened in the 1920s, or even earlier, so, ironically, the Lodge which gave Lodge Lane its name is now in Sefton Park Road.
Heysmoor Heights was "rebranded" so many years ago that I've forgotten what its original name was.
Lark Lane was once a rough area?
That's news to me.
The reference to the bingo hall in Lodge Lane.
Was that a selling point?
Because the majority of bingo patrons have always been (comparitively) poor, middle-aged women.
There was a lobby to call the ASDA (on Smithdown Road) to call it ASDA - Toxteth (as if it would make a difference to such a multi national). The choice was made to call it ASDA - Sefton Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
The name would certainly have not made a difference to ASDA (or WAL*MART PLC). It may have made a difference to Toxteth. (At the very least to those who view it as a place to be eradicated and replaced).
Outside perceptions count - for anyone in the historic borough of Toxteth they really count.
Unfortunately.
The precedent had already been broken because the surgery which is close to ASDA is the Sefton Park Surgery.
My doctor, actually, and the surgery used to be in Ullet Road, which is a lot nearer to Sefton Park, but it was just called "Surgery" then, (but that was in the 1970s).
I wonder what area the proposed Tesco in Park Road is going to be?
What's the betting it'll be "Prince's Park"?
Going back well before the riots, the Gaumont cinema on the corner of Dingle Lane was always called (in the 'biz') the Gaumont, Prince's Park, not the Gaumont, Dingle, which is what all the locals called it.
You're absolutely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
It's like the issue of filling in the docks. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this also.
Not to worry though - market forces will sort it out.
(You never know, they may even build new arena on one of them, can't complain though eh..... )
Fool.
:rolleyes:
I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelCake
What parts of the USA are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Where?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Market forces may sort out Lodge Lane, however I doubt it.Quote:
Not to worry though - market forces will sort it out.
Many can complain. The arena looks naff in design and colour - a big mistake. When it starts up just think of all the fleets of coaches moving in and out. How fabulous. Leaving the waters as they were and building around them was the better option and putting the area at the end of the Wapping Tunnel.Quote:
(You never know, they may even build new arena on one of them, can't complain though eh..... )
Obnoxious as well...Quote:
Fool.
:rolleyes:
Toxteth is a large area with sub areas in it. No one ever referred to Toxteth, just the sub areas within. If anyone ever asked where you lived, you never said Toxteth, no more than you would say Liverpool, as it was too big.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Surrey Commercial Docks - (London)Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Graving Dock - (part of the USA) ;-)
Your solution - read up - was to leave it to market forces ......Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Actually - to save you looking :
It's staggering that you even bother to read a thread about an area that you evidently couldn't care less about.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Leave to market forces ...You get my point yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Just because Lodge Lane isn't as dear to your heart as a dock, it happens to be the area I live in.
FWIW - I like the new Arena. I raised it to make a point - which I hope has registered.
For this I apologise - it's beneath me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I appreciate that you want specifics here ... for one example, see my reply above to that Waterways chap.Quote:
Originally Posted by shytalk
The point being made, irrespective of whether 1 or 1 million docks have been filled in, was that a flippant 'let the market sort it out' comment about the area in which I live wasn't something I appreciated.
I selected the infill of the docks as, looking at his signature, I thought that the point might be understood if compared to something he appears to care about.
The point was either missed - or as a means of backtracking, he resorted to pedantry ..... 'which docks ....' ....oh dear.
We pay taxes to let the council sort it out - not continually being told there's no money to (ie. Garden festival site) so sit it out leaving a dump waiting for private investment to get us out the s*%t
Members of my family lived off it. I am familiar with Lodge lane. And I would not like to live around there these days. You do, I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I thought you would for some reason.Quote:
FWIW - I like the new Arena.
Quote:
For this I apologise - it's beneath me.
Why should Lodge Lane be immune from market forces? State aid for the place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
There are lots of private companies that would want to get their hands on that site and do something special. The Brunswick Quay Tower was one billion of private money and turned down. As if Liverpool can chose to turn down such investment. Don't blame the private sector, blame the city council.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Private companies are lining up with proposals and firm financial backing. A well run council would have had most of the dock waterways. garden festival site, etc well developed and well under way by now. All they need is a a proper overall plan protecting various parts, like water spaces, etc. Look at what Manchester has done in such a short timescale. Liverpool is seen as a do nothing city and large investors may not even consider the place if it continues.
I am blaming the city council John hence my 'we pay taxes to let the council sort it out' remark.
The people of the Lodge Lane area have a right to feel that their taxes will go some way to sorting their area out. Yes, the garden festival site is prime real estate land overlooking the Mersey with uninterupted views etc so there will be private investors interestred in it, perhaps a new road tunnel or bridge could have gone there instead of the cannon fodder council tenants in the north end.
Bully for the council that they are in a position to sell off this land to private investors, short sighted of them not to get the best possible price for it and use the money for less prime sites like Lodge Lane, Kensington, Kirkdale etc and get all, not just parts of the city up and running again.
[QUOTE=Waterways;86735]Members of my family lived off it. I am familiar with Lodge lane. And I would not like to live around there these days. You do, I don't.
I don't live on Lodge lane either but i'd still like to see it given help.You dislike the new arena,dislike the idea of lodge lane being helped.Why? For people who believe certain areas can never be "done up" go and take a look at the Falkner state footage then look at that area now.
I don't think houses should be built on that site. The more I look in to it, the more I believe that Liverpool council has never been run by people who care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
I think there has to be a balance. It's true that part of it is a wild nature reserve (if you like) and also true that most of it should be preserved as parkland. However, there is part of it to the west of Riverside drive where the dome was that is disused and derelict. There is no reason for the council not to cash in on this and use the money in other areas where it's needed and private investment is not forthcoming. Private investors of course will only pick and choose prime sites.