Well said fortinian...a toe bung to the forces of unsubstantiated wibble, that dare to show their ghoulish faces around here.
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Well said fortinian...a toe bung to the forces of unsubstantiated wibble, that dare to show their ghoulish faces around here.
I think Bernadettes first story is interesting, as I have seen something not to far from there, which I cannot explain, mine was more like a shadow of an animal, but not a full blown apparition. But I am not sure about the time slip story, Tom Slemens story of the ex policeman coming out of the exit of Central station is quite well known and one of the most famous time slip storys regarding The Bold Street area. Maybe Bernadette is telling the truth, if so maybe she should get in touch with Tom , as I am sure he would be interested in hearing that.
[QUOTE=fortinian;235224]As for the Bold Street time slips... I suggest it happened because you are
a) slightly gullible and open to suggestion
b) mental
QUOTE]
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...vatars/lol.gif :handclap:
Seems a certain Mr Slemen has a huge impact on one or two posters on here. Mental can also come under obsession. Whether you think his stories are tripe, fair enough, but to be practically on anyone like a Lurcher to a kitten who seem to have a interest or similar experience to one of his stories, well, glad I don't arouse such 'interest' from such people.
PS no I am not him before no doubt some of you will predictably ask :rolleyes:
I laugh at the people being so gullible, not at Tom Slemen. He's just writing books.
people who believe in Bold st timeslips and the like ... ... ... yes well.
Oh you cynic Lindy...Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Do you think people who believe in God are gullible, Lindy?
I find a lot of Mr Slemens stories a stretch, but I know so many people who have claimed to have had a paranormal experience that I keep an open mind. I myself brushed off what could be considered a Paranormal experience in my old flat, due to the fact I was over-tired, could not sleep and worked all that particular week doing erratic shifts at my place of work. So I don't consider myself gullible, just open to possibilities.
I have to say this thread seems to have taken a bit of a nasty turn.
Whether you believe in people's stories or not (and some are certainly more unbelievable than others) I don't think there's really any reason to "laugh at people who are so gullible", call them mad, etc. All seems a bit out of order to me to be honest. You wouldn't attack people's religious beliefs (for example) just because they might not be your own. I'm not sure why, if people are genuinely not bothered or interested in the supernatural (or "unexplained" or however you want to put it), they'd bother having a go at others who are.
I should point out that I am not someone who has ever seen a ghost or had a profound supernatural experience but neither do I just dismiss anything that whiffs of the paranormal as nonsense. I'm very interested in folklore and history and the supernatural is very often a big feature of both - stories (true or not) of ghosts and apparitions often provide a fascinating and engaging link to the history of a place.
That's not to say that every story is important (or credible or even interesting) but just because some aren't that doesn't automatically make the entire field a load of rubbish. If you want to just take the p**s and have a laugh I think there are plenty of other threads for that.
I'm not defending anyone's stories here but I think just spending post after post giving people stick and not actually adding anything to the topic seems a bit sad. Gang of bored kids talking loudly at the back of the bus so everyone else has to listen whether they like it or not. Know what I mean?
I have read all of Tom`s Books and do know Tom personally. Even I cant get my head around `time slips` although I wish it would happen to me. Well thinking about it, it does happen to me sometimes.........when I look in my wardrobe.
I have most probably had more paranormal experiences than a lot of people on here, but I dont blame anyone who doesnt believe, each to their own opinion. No one can change my mind in what I think, as to many things have happened to me for me to deny things.
Sorry RW if you took offence. I didn't mean it that way. I'm just a soldier...Quote:
Originally Posted by researchwriter
I'm a natural cynic Linda. I think I can say I seen it all....Quote:
Originally Posted by lindac8941
A legless monk??. Are you sure he wasn't on a skateboard ?:PDT11Quote:
Originally Posted by BernadetteG
One of the biggest problems with Tom Slemen and his books is that it has never once been established 100% (either by the Bluecoat Press or by Tom himself) whether all/some/none of these stories are real or not.
If they are all 100% 'made up' then the public needs to know so they don't bother wasting their time doing their own research.
If some of them are real and some made up, then tell us which so we don't have to go down the false advertising route.
If they are all 100% real then there is at least one story which is totally untrue of which I have personal information on. However - there is at least one story I know to be utterly true because I spoke to the person myself who had nothing to hide, didn't believe in ghosts up until that point and had nothing to gain from the story.
My personal view is that he has come up with some real stories, some 'passed on to him' and some made up stories, but I find it sad that he cannot simply tell us which ones are from which category.
Re. Bernadettes story of the `legless monk`Not far from this site, is Thingwall Hall, where in 1903 the hall was purchased by a Belgian Religious Order. The Brothers of Charity. These `Brothers` did in fact wear a habit, so maybe it was not a monk as such, but one of The Brothers.
I'm a sceptic. Loadsa twaddle...
Legless? He was obviously sloshed. Been and had a few in the Royal Navy Club next to the Rocket :PDT_Aliboronz_24:Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing
I tend to agree with you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadfael
Ha, thats funny...
More to the point Zaps, how could he be legless if he was only ON THE WAY towards the Fiveways pub???Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing
That's why I reckon he was on a skateboard. :PDT11Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Quote:
Originally Posted by researchwriter
Sorry researchwriter, us disbelievers didn't intend to upset you. :PDT_Aliboronz_11:
I feel I must explain myself and perhaps take some responsibility for altering the course of this thread.
I am not a skeptic. I am a Fortean (look it up). I did not say that Bernadette was mental. It was merely one of four options I gave - there could indeed be many others - but my post was not meant as a comprehensive list of possibilities.
Slemen has been known to 'troll' before, he has been known to establish accounts on many social networking sites, messageboards and even review sites under many different names. I am immediately on guard for any newbie poster who acts 'suspiciously' in their posting habits regarding information that is Slemenish.
For example, Bernadette posted her timeslip story in this thread and here http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...ht=#post234663. It is as if she is angling for something to bite.
It may be my paranoia, granted, but as I explained in my orignal post, one of Tom Slemen's most common themes is 'Bold Street Time Slips' and you would have to be pretty ignorant not to know about it, especially if it has happened to you and you have the internet.
The first thing I would do if it happened to be would be to google it. Not waste 10 minutes of my time to sign up to a general message board in the vain hope that someone might have something.
My 'obsession' with Tom Slemen (and if you're going to stick your oar in you might as well do it by name and not mere suggestion) is not so much about him but rather with his shabby treatment of Liverpools history. I am along the lines of Brother Cad - I don't mind him making up ghost stories as long as he signifies that they ARE MADE UP.
When you have a respected historian like Ken Pye on Radio Merseyside talking about 'William Mackenzie the pyramid tomb gambler' (as he did on the Sean Styles show) then I begin to get worried. I have proved consistantly that he is not buried in the pyramid at all and rather than being a 'keen gambler who sold his soul to the devil' he was a church going, God fearing man and one of the most influential people in the 19th Century and he was proud to call Liverpool his home.
It not not Slemen I am obsessed with but rather the disrespect he has shown to our citys fine history.
There are many mysteries in this world that we cannot explain and that science does not and will not acknowledge. Science is as much a fable as religion, science consistantly ignores incovenient data or explains it as an 'error' or 'glitch'. There are far too many real mysteries (historical, physical, natural) to be answered to waste on popular spook stories with no substance outside the storytellers mind.
Fortean Times, I am aware of the magazine. Not that I read it.
You never called Bernadette (or Tom Slemen as you 'suspect') mental, just listed it as a possibility? Doesn't disguise the insult very well.
Point is you can differences of opinion on any subject, I am not doubting you know your stuff. But you have not put your side of your findings in a professional manner, just seems you are going out your way to discredit the work of Tom Slemen. You go as far as I already pointed out jumped at a poster because it turns out they have made a request regarding a topic he has written about. Now you say Tom Slemen trolls forums under different names. As I have stuck my Oar in as you put it, you come across as obsessed with him.
I am not a historian, so I can't take say whether you or he is right, but when you admit a apparent respected Historian (not heard of said man you mentioned) talks about Toms work then it puts another tick for Tom Slemen. I'm sure a respect Historian would shoot Tom Slemens 'disrespecting' historical accounts in flames.
... but at the end of the day - these 'paranormal' fairytales are nonsense ! They are not real. Ghosties and ghoulies do not exist. This is not an insult to anyone - it is just a fact that there is no such thing as ghosts and things that go bump in the night :)
I don't have a problem with Tom Slemen's books - - they are interesting little tales if you like that kind of thing, and there is a market for them.
My teenage son is enthrawled by such fantastical tales and has bought most of the Slemen books.
There is no harm in story telling as long as you don't believe it as truth.
bet you wouldn't say that in a dark forest...Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
I'd be spooked in a dark forest - but not because I'd think some hob goblins and witches were in wait !! ha!
I'd be scared of a prowler or a nutter might be at large. :)
Heehee, you would be expecting me then...Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
If you don't believe in such things, then of course it would be nonsense to you. Just I know more than one person, including members of my own family who claimed to have seen Ghosts. To them they obviously do exist. Because you say its not true does not make it any more gospel than Tom Slemen or Fortinian who claim otherwise. I just witness on this forum hostility towards a poster because they asked a question regarding a Time Travel story (far fetched admittedly) and being called mental or being Tom Slemen trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Do you believe in the Invisible Army ?
I believe in the Sally Army, whoever she is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing
Lotsa things are real to lotsa folk KA. Me mum says she's seen lotsa ghosts, not many other s have though. I'm a sceptic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Amigo
Am I calling me mum a liar... No.
[QUOTE=lindylou;237147
My teenage son is enthrawled by such fantastical tales and has bought most of the Slemen books.
[/QUOTE]
just noticed my spelling mistake - enthralling it should be - not enthrawling ! - - I've had a long day !
My belief is that if your sensitive to spirit, then you will see and hear things, if not, you have less chance, as you will just push it under the carpet as a figment of your imagination/shadows/creaky floorboards etc. I have been taking psychic developement classes, and am now starting doing readings for people, with only a small success rate at the moment, but I know with my developement I will get better at it. I cannot see into the future, but pick up on places, names etc. past events.
Debz often has a chat to Tom and she's told me that he's a really nice fella. I can imagine he is. I wouldn't knock him for making an honest living out of people. I would say though..his stories are more than far fetched!!Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Amigo
I can't speak for the others, but there's no hostility coming from my end - - I always laugh off spooky ghosties no matter who it is telling it :) I have friends and maybe one or two in the family who are goggle eyed at such things - - but I take after my dad and my grandmother - feet very firmly on the ground and cynical to a fault :PDT_Aliboronz_11: my grandmother was the worst - no way you could sway her ! No offence intended to anyone if it's your nature to be a cynic and to laugh off such things, and to steadfastly refuse to have your flabber ghasted !! :unibrow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing
.. as I say, I don't have a problem with Tom Slemen. No reason for him not to produce his books and to make a living.
Just that, some people really do believe everything they are told or everything they read.
I dont believe everything that Tom writes, although I dont know whether it is Toms doing or whether it is false information that has been fed to him. Tom is a really nice bloke, although I havent seen him for about 2 years now, I still buy and read his books .
I was going to post this on the boards, and you feel free to do so if you wish there is nothing secret in it, but I felt that such a long reply on my part would take the thread too off topic.
Kid_Amigo
Fortean Times is a publication that follows a 'Fortean' outlook, I have never bought a copy, but i've read a few and it's philosophy greatly interested me. Forteanism is basically 'benign scepticim', open minded but with an inherent critical reflex.
Re: Mental - Well isn't it a possibility for us all? We must always have the possibility open that if someone sees something that no one else sees, or hears something no one else hears, or indeed believes anything that cannot be empirally proven that that person may be mad. Would you not agree?
I suspect nothing about Bernadette... again Tom Slemen was a possibility. I am not saying one way or another, merely presenting the facts. If she is real but did not really experience a time slip then she is ripping off a Tom Slemen story (fulfilling option c) but if she is Tom Slemen in disguise (fulfillinf option d) then she cannot be ripping off herself. The reason I point this out is that non of my options are mutually inclusive but some are mutually exclusive.
I am calling no-body anything.
As for my findings, I believe I have put them in a professional manner, perhaps not on this board... but then again is this forum made up primarily of opinions rather than a place to publish original research. If I was 'going out of my way' to discredit him you could expect letters to the Echo, websites (tomslemenisafraud.com) and perhaps even a petition. I could get T-Shirts made perhaps and stand outside Waterstones when he does book signings...
No, in fact I have a busy and fulfilling life outside of the YoLiverpool forum, it is one of many forums you may find me browsing (sadly not the Fortean Times one as it's stupid registration system locked me out boo hoo) and one of the many topics I enjoy posting on
As I have heard from many people, Tom Slemen is probably a very lovely guy and i'm sure if I met him we'd get along like a house on fire. I really enjoy reading his stories and they indeed have spooked me out over the years. It's his historical research that I have a problem with. My gripe with Tom is a non personal one, I have nothing against him, but I do have it against some of his work.
Thanks to people like Martin from the Old Swan Site I have actually had an oportunity to present a more 'professional' (as you call it) writeup of my research. http://oldswan.piczo.com/massgraveso...linkvar=000044 and if you would like any more of my findings on other subjects them feel free to PM me.
Ken Pye is a resident historian on Radio Merseyside and has published this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Discover-Liv.../dp/1905266359 . His book is generally well researched but he is not the first to be taken in by a modern urban myth.
A quick perusal of the Pyramid Tomb thread in this forum: http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...-Rodney-Street
Will show you that many others (not just me) have discredited the belief that he is buried IN the pyramid. As part of my thorough historical research I have traced the origin of the 'Mackenzie buried in the pyramid' story to Tom Slemen in the 1990s and no earlier.
It would be horribly remiss of me as a historian to not mention the fact that the 'Mackenzie buried in the pyramid' story is of a provenance only two decades old at most.
Unfortunately because the story has been around for a over a decade it has gained widespread acceptance among those who are too busy or can't be bothered to do the research. Now, before you jump at me i'm not saying Ken Pye can't be bothered to do his research... just saying that it's a possibility... but I have taken the time, effort and cost of doing this piece of research at my own leisure, I am writing up my findings in order to further illuminate a neglected part of this citys history, which I feel passionately about.
I can see my passion has landed me in this current situation and yes, perhaps I was hasty in my reply but there seems to be people on here who are very upset for Bernadette but the Lady herself is quiet. If she is offended I will apologise to her, but I will not apologise to anyone else for my opinions.
My evidence is presented in these forums... not very well... but it is there for those who have the time and care to read it.
[Sorry for the length and numerous spelling errors but I felt I had to write this, Kid_Amigo, if you want to continue this please contact me in Private Messages as I don't want to continue to take this board too off topic]
That crossed my mind too - - we've heard this story before about a Bold st time slip - - is it a rip off from Tom's story ??Quote:
Originally Posted by fortinian
We'll have to wait and see if Bernadette comes back to tell us more about it. :unibrow: