http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1294/...854a75ec91.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by marky
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http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1294/...854a75ec91.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by marky
Thanx Kev, I was confused about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
Hi Marie,Quote:
Originally Posted by marie
the noise that the kids are hearing, might be one of the gadgets that the police/authorities have been trying out? These things emit an annoying sound, but are only audible by younger people,(something to do with specific frequencies)and thier purpose is to discourage gangs congregating in particular areas/sites.According to your post, it seems to have the desired effect:unibrow:
This church has now closed due to serious structural problems with the roof I believe. It is in the process of being transfered to the redundant churches list. parishioners are currently worshipping in a local school hall in KensingtonQuote:
Originally Posted by kat
Yes but church now closed MarieQuote:
Originally Posted by marie
There are several really. In Wavertree start with the Church of England's Holy Trinity, Church Rd; St Bridget, Lawrence Rd and St Mary, Victoria Park. In Childwall, Church of England's All Saints, Score Lane and St David's, Rocky lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by marie
Then of course there are the Methodists on Score Lane, United Reform Church on Lance Lane and the Congregationalist church on Hunters Lane. If you want your service in Welsh, then there's the Welsh Presbyterian Church on Heathfield Rd, Wavertree.
There may be others.
Hope this helps.
Thanx u very much!! and sure, u have wroten a lot of info, thanx for help, however!!Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
I can not understand here, in England, how I could know if a church is Protestant, Catholic, ...
I am sorry, but I do not know who are, the ideas, of the Methodist, the United Reform Church and The Church of England...
It's a long story to describe the origins of the different Protestant churches. In essence they all begin with the break of the Church of England from the Church of Rome in the mid 16th C. Roughly speaking the various other Protestant churches then formed out of the Church of England over the next few centuries. Generally they split off due to differences in some aspect of theology.Quote:
Originally Posted by marie
Most churches have signs outside telling you who they are. The Roman catholic ones in wavertree are Christ Church, Queen's Drive; Our Lady of Good Help in Chestnut Grove; St Hugh's in Lawrence Rd and Our Lady of the Annunciation Woolton Rd. The latter church is also called Bishop Eton but confusingly there never was a person called Bishop Eton !!
Taffy!! I'm sorry!! I forget said to u thanx u very much for the info!! :PDT_Aliboronz_11:Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
Yes, I know the history about the differents churches, only I do not know how I can to know if a church is protestant, catholic, ... coz than u good say, somes churches have signs outside, but not all... Thanx!! However!!
Go-ahead to bulldoze homes
THE Government has given the go-ahead for a Compul-sory Purchase Order (CPO) to bulldoze homes in Wavertree, Liverpool.
The streets included in the CPO are Scholar Street, Mulliner Street, Underley Street, Cantsfield Street and half of Tunstall Street.
pics pics pics
Actually Edge Hill !! Let's hope these new houses look better in 20 years than the new ones built just up Smithdown road during the last demolition and rebuild project in this area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
Thanks Taffy :)
Nice to hear common sense prevailed in the end, lets hope the government does what it had promised to do and give back power to local authorities, the same that is had happend here is the cause of a smilar situation in Lime street too. If a whole community had stood up against something then yes I agree, but for one or two individuals or even companys for that matter then sadly something has to be wrong, remember majority rule, I do hope that all those that move out get a good deal, but lets not be greedy and ask for hiper inflated prices. Lovely keep sake photographs, and remember regarding any homes, its how you look after them, just like your own health.
kat:)
The council has run this area down over the last four years. Any homes that have become vacant have been purposely left to rot. Most of the owner occupiers are against demolition, the majority of the people in the area who get homes easily either from the council or housing associations don't care what happens as they will be rehoused. Note, I did say the majority not all.
Owner occupiers, will not find it so easy to find affordable homes as solid as these houses. I know of two houses in these streets which became vacant over two years ago, one of then the tenant sadly died leaving a beautiful three bedroomed home which a family could have moved into staight away. The other one equally beatiful, the tenants moved out of Liverpool because of thier jobs, this was another house where a family could have moved into, Believe me there were plenty of faminlies who would have been happy to move in, but NO the council decided to let them rot. I can't understand it, the council could have been collecting rent from these houses for over two years.
There are other houses which will come under phase two of the CPO'S
(which is supposed to be 5 years away) left empty.Why can't the council let these houses out and collect rent from them, I'm not talking about the houses where a lot of money would have to be spent to bring them up to standard, I'm talking about the ones which need just a bit of cleaning up to be habitable.
Chris, people run down areas not councils, yes perhaps funding has been a bit short on street maintainance, with regards to your idea about doing some up cheaply until the time comes up for demolition the only problem with that is the cpo process all over again. Whilst I do feel for those that have lost their homes, the majority opted to take the money and run, I am not sure of all the ins and outs of this project, but certainly in early stages alot of people I spoke too were very keen to get onboard with it. Housing associations are strictly governed by the housing corporation, in order to maintain funding for future projects housing associations are governed by what is termed as the "decent homes standard", this standard is set very high.
kat
:)
Scholar Street
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1765.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1766.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1767.jpg
Mulliner Street
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1768.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1769.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1770.jpg
Underley street
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1771.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1772.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1773.jpg
Cantsfield Street
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1774.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1775.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1776.jpg
My old house on Cantsfield now used as an office of some sort?
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1779.jpg
Tunstall Street
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1781.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...n/DSC_1782.jpg
All images taken from the smithdown road end.
I pass those streets twice a day every day going to and from work, and to be honest I'd never noticed how tatty some of them looked, though some of the places on Smithdown Rd itself could do with tidying up, especially all the closed-down shops.
Any indications as to what will happen with the land when they've been knocked down? Lots of bulldozed sites around now with nothing happening.
I now sing In the Ghetto by Elvis when riding past those places.
Smithdown cycles Is great when I need a new Innertube on my bike.
I think they let the land settle for a while, they did that not far from here, then start building work. I dont know the areas in the picture but no doubt it will be for housing and new street scaping, I would hope.
kat:)
Excellent pics again, many thanks.
I agree. They are horrid. The whole area between Earle Road and Spekeland Road is an example of how not to rejuvenate an area. Earle Road used to be like a continuation of Lawrence Road, maybe slightly rougher but not too dissimilar. Look at it now. Lawrence Road has its problems and the usual over supply of empty shops but it's still full of character and tied into the wider community of south Liverpool. The estate towards the top of Earle Road plus those in the Smithdown Lane area always feel like self-contained no-go areas to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
One of the worst outcomes of community redevelopment is when you see a wide road that used to have 3 - 4 storey properties on either side suddenly transformed into a wide road flanked by bungalows and semis (with the electricity and gas metres on the outside). It feels wrong and such low population density coupled with low disposable incomes soon sees off any remaining shops. These get boarded up and then after a few years of water damage, demolished and then if such areas are really lucky a Netto/Aldi/Lidl appears. I'm not sure what the next stage is, probably perpetual flatlining until the newbuilds are demolished for the cycle to start all over again.
Oh and this is for all you people running down Smithdown Road!
:064: :008:
This is what I think of Smithdown Road:PDT_Aliboronz_11:
you are wrong here especially in the Edge Lane Area the houses have been deliberately emptied by the council ina sort of social cleansing, any dereliction is directly the result of a land grab, the people there are being offered £58,000 to move out while the houses they are building on Tunnel Road cost £120,000,Quote:
Originally Posted by kat2
The original CPO which Liz Pascoe fought and stopped was on the grounds that the area was under used, which the High Court said wasnt true, despite this the Liverpool Land and Dev company still claim it was techincality. They now claim the new CPO is because the houses are empty when they have actually emptied them. I contacted LLDC to ask about appealing against the CPO and I was told that I couldnt, which was a total porky pie.
look at my blog and look at this press release to see what's happening to the people by big business Its a rip off
http://stevefaragher.wordpress.com/2...eets-of-shame/
http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co....ease241106.doc
I dont think its about social cleansing at all, and your pointing out the cost of new build propertys agains the value of old housing stock which is in a run down area. Most of the residents I came across in the kensington area were in favor a few years back of improving the area. It became a no go spot, no one wanted to move in and so this lead to further derliction problems.
so, how would you resolve things then? do you think that council tax payers should pay council tax money to improve your properties? alot of home owners either abandoned their properties or sub let them in applauling conditions to tenants. New regulations on the letting of properties came into effect this year, they are termed the decent homes standard. With regards to the council letting run down propertys get into a worse condition, thats up to people in the local area to contact the environmental health department, they have a legal obligation to make properties safe.
I am sorry for the odd one or two that wished to stay in that area, but it would seem the majority moved out now whether the going rate of £58-00 was enough for a property of that value in a run down are was fair I cannot really comment.
kat
but it would be interesting to hear your points? for example how would you go about resolving the issues? people have proven that they did not wish to live in the area because so many propertys became derlict. There were many landlords runing sub standard cheap and cheerfull propertys that today would not get passed the new regulations.
or would you just leave the area run down? or do you feel the council should pay to do up your homes, and if so, why do you feel that council tax payers should foot the bill to maintaine private housing stock?
do you think you should have free new houses?
the truth is seven years ago all sorts of promises were made to the people of Kensington in that they were promised ato be consulted on the new houses, this hasnt happened and Bellway the developers wont build any hosues until the place is cleared which means there is little chance that the people who lived there and want to stay in Kensington will be the ones who buy the new houses, for a start off they wont be able to afford them and the houses being built on Tunnel road are tiny especially for the price, people really havent had a choice about moving out. And any profit that is being made is going into the pcokets of Bellway and LLDC. The answer would have been to set up a communtiy social enterprise called a Community Land Trust,Quote:
Originally Posted by kat2
http://www.communitylandtrust.org.uk/
any profit which would ahve been made would have been re-invested in the community.Council tax payers are currently paying about a grand a year on security for each house, the council is loosing millions in lost council taxt and rents, not a good deal is it-diplaced and destroyed communities, fat cats getting fatter and dodgey little expensive houses.
Steve, you havent really said how you would resovle these issues? Yes, naturally the developers wish to maximise land available by building more energy efficient smaller homes, that cost less to heat.The layout that exists was probably fine years ago but doesnt reflect todays modern day way of liveing, eg, car parking spaces. I was under the impression that some of the homes did come under the right to buy a kind of joint partnership? maybe this changed I dont know. But it makes common sense yes that the prices of new build propertys are going to cost more money, it may also improve council tax banding, which has always been a problem in Liverpool due to its large derliction spots. I thought some of the housing was going to be social housing too? (housing association to you and me)?
I know several years back when we did a consultation alot of the residents were very keen to get onboard. This consortium that you point too why dont they buy some of the housing stock back? and do it that way??
But, i seriously thought their was social housing. Its a difficult call really, I mean the council needs to improve an area and thus perhaps raise the council tax banding or at least bring an area back into use so as not to have so much redundant vandalised stock. I think starting again really is the best way forwards, better layouts taking into account the fact that there are more car owners? New housing generally is cheaper to run and has a higher thermal value which translates into more affordable fuel bills.
Like I have posted I am sorry for the few that wished to remain in there homes, but my recollection of the place was that there was alot of boarded up houses and high vandalism, plus according to health statistics for that area, the housing stock was called into question in how it was affecting that populations health. They also looked at other issues such as employment, and crime before coming to the conclusion that the area needed a re jig to make it a more pleasant place to live.
I am not sure where you get a profit margin from? social housing cannot make a profit, most social housing associations usually carry the logo not for profit, meaning if they make a profit they do not qualify for grants from the housing corporation. The paradox of all this is sustainability and building homes that people want, and dont vandalise, my understanding is that there are a number of partner agencys offering social housing in that area as it is.
the right to buy under shared ownership has also existed for many years so not sure why the link you provide seems to point to it in the way that it does, every housing association tenant has the right to buy unless they are in listed propertys or in a scheme where it wouldnt be practicle.
Buying land that doesnt increase in value i cannot see how that would work
kat
:)
But it makes common sense yes that the prices of new build propertys are going to cost more money,
They won't last anywhere near as long as the old ones though,the plder houses are solid, built to last. I,ve been in one bellway home as a visitor, I could hear the person next door using the loo,they are may look nice (that depends on what you call nice)but they will cost a hell of a lot more to maintain.
let's say for example the council homesteaded the hosues ie sold them very cheaply to a community land trust, the CLT could borrow money (Charity bank are wiling to lend on this type of venture I have checked this out with this bank) and the houses were renovated the cost of purchase and renovation would be around the £50k mark, the houses would have a market value of circa £100,000+.
They could then be sold affordabley for £80,000 to local people or people who want to live in Kensington, there could be conditions that buyers cant resell except to the land trusts for the first five years, after that there;s a sliding scale of repayment of profit from sales to CLT thereafter up to the tenth year. The Ecology building society will arrange mortgages on schemes like this
This deters speculators buy to let etc etc.
The CLT always owns the land (which should rise in value) and makes £30k per house form the sales to be reinvested in other housing or socially relevant schemes. the wealth is produced in the community and stays there.
The CLT website cites many examples in the UK and further afield of this type of scheme doing just this.
The local housing association are trying a similar scheme with a 25% discount on half finished houses but they area still costing £75,000! Although the profit from this scheme doesnt go back into the communtiy and the hosues in question are in an area that was deemed unsusainable and had been CPOd until the council changed their mind.
If absolutely nothing had been done to the area (edge lane CPO) it would have become sustainable and recovered just through market forces, ie the market has risen all over Kensington, empty derelict boarded up houses are going for £70000 all the time, so even the £58,000 is derisory.
The councill seem to be hell bent on the edge lane CPO and seem to not have a plan B especially its very strange the way given the market has improved they dotn seem to be able to be flexible, funny innit?
the market has been improved like all things due to the speculation that the area is up and comming thats only natural, before this the value was not so high, I have seen simlar instances over here on the wirral where people get wind of an area that is ripe for development and then they buy into the derlict propertys waiting to make a killing, fortunatly wirral council are years ahead in their planning and usually sell the land well in advance to avoid problems like the edge lane experience. The idea around what your links go to is nothing new housing associations have been doing this for years but there is very strict critria, for example if they refurbish old housing stock, they cannot sell it on or demolish it (until recently) until the projected life of the housing stock has ceased. All housing stock has a "shelf life" this is between twenty and thirty years, after this time housing stock may be considered not viable for renewal, due to failure of components or a change in the building regulations/ EU guidance, (such as the decent homes standard) once housing stock is beyond its twenty/thirty years then a feasbility study is created to see how much it would cost to bring the property up to standard, taking into account (sustainablity) and the fact that housing associations are limited to what they can charge for rental or resale (due to governmental contractual obligations in obtaining the grant (housing corp regs) I think rental is 1% over r/p/i. thats why generally housing associations seldom make profits. why doesnt the scheme your talking about work of a simpler idea of letting home owners keep their homes but assist them in bringing them up to a decent standard? through some form of shared finance scheme? incidentally if home owners let their housing stock fall into very bad condition over here on the wirral, the council would issue a letter advising them to bring it up to standard, if they failed to bring their home up to a safe standard then the council would take them to court and do the works themselfs and charge back or recover the fees of the works by selling the propertys to recover the loss.
kat:)
iCLTs could worked with shared finance but alas and alack the LLDc and the council have scattered the majority of the people.
At the moment the council cant really consult people because they've got rid of them all..A CLT would by definition have to reflect the views and opinions of the community. The people were orginally offered an Eldonian type scheme, they were told that the area would be done up piecemeal, ie ten people moved out, houses demolished then the same people moved back in the new houses (houses they were supposed to have had a hand designing the spec of), as it now stands Bellway wont touch the land till every last house is vacant.
The person I know who is moving out to Walton has jsut had enough, she was a chair of one of the residents assocaition, helped set up the credit union and still runs it and until all this happened was committed nad dedicated to the area, she didnt want one of the houses on tunnel road as it is only 13 feet from front to back and cost 120k 62k short of the 58 k she's been offered. Only a very small proportion of the new houses on tunnel road are for rent, as with the minto street developments, by your argument the cost of the new houses should be affordable as they are not being built by specualtors are they? but they arent so the area is socially cleansed in this processed, not enough social housing and not enough affordable hosues to buy
It will be interesting to see how many people come back to the area who sued to live there before. The people there have been sold short, considerably short.
Housing Assocaitions do make profits, they jsut dont have share holders, ahve you seen Riverside's HQ, Berrybridges new offices, Cobalts new offices,
Hi, Steve, I would suppose the idea behind the construction companys arguments was to bring the area up to the 20th century ie, parking better lay out? We will have to wait and see of course but I was taken to beleive some of the propertys were for social housing. With regards to big houses, yes, I can understand a development company trying to maximise the ground space useage some new homes are smaller, but there also cheaper to run, large houses in that area in the past just became a poor model of social housing, (tenants letting off rooms), now with all the new regulations designed to protect tenants (decent homes standards) means that alot of un scrupulous landlords could be taken to court. (private landlords sub standard lets). The old large victorian model however nice was never cheap to run, cold damp and more often than not without proper heating or damp coursing. Riverside doesnt make a profit, I worked for the company for many years, the company by charter is not permitted to make a profit, if you go into its housing association sector, you will see the investor in people, and not for profit logos. This is because the government set capping limits on how much it could charge for rent, Riverside Group Limited was set up as the investor part of riverside so in other words riverside group do own shops ect but that is the group and not the association. The group can buy out other housing associations or can offer exchange deals, over the last few years I beleive this is what has been done, such as english churches (housing) each aquired some of the others property portfolio. With regards to the edge lane area anyway I would have thought most could not afford to even buy properties at eighty thousand pounds (if the price offered of £58-000 for their existing homes). There would be the matter of ensuring prospective buyers even at eighty could afford to pay back the eighty. Seems nice that lots of investors would invest and not wish to collect interest of their loans? I havent come across that before.
I am sure too that the new layout will be to help design crime out, which was another request that was made when the origional concept was being talked about.
cpos are nothing new, yes they are sad but in some ways it seems its the only way forwards, and £58-000 isnt to be turned down lightly especially at the time before all this large investment was being pumped into the city of Liverpool. Health wise people need to live in dry warm affordable homes.
kat:)
I found that in youtube:
"1907 shots of a giant pageant in Wavertree Park"
Images r old, so r not good, but the sound is very clear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53pa03ldlBs
excellent find Marie,I enjoyed watching that :PDT_Piratz_26:
Brilliant :handclap: thanks Marie.
it's lovely to see the old trams near the end of the video. I love trams, I have a few pictures on my wall of them.
Lindy, try Waterstones for a new book called Streets of Liverpool which is primarily about the buses and trams of yesteryear with some great buildings shots and street scenes I hadn't seen before.
i know this is a long shot but seeing that your talking about wavertree road can any one help me please
my grandparents lived in cambridge street, by the pubs (the bridge,leigh arms, but what i want to know is further down on the main road there is a row of old shops i dont think they have been in use for many many years can some one tell me if one of them was ever a fruit and veg shop? possibly owned by the yates family.
i would be really grateful if any one can help or have got any old photos of cambridge street
debbie
March 2007
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1294/...854a75ec91.jpg
October 2007 (Today)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/...f2189556b8.jpg
Always sad to see any church go. And for what? Houses probably. Tunnel road is a really nice 'empty' road with nothing on either side. I know, let's bung a few houses up there. :rolleyes:
There's a church in Ashfield, Wavertree - I don't know the name of it but it's being demolished right now. It was a large church - do you know it Cadfael?
People have been going along there to salvage bits and pieces for momentos of the church.
It could be St Thomas' which is a real shame seeing as that was the second church from the original St Thomas' that Joseph Williamson is buried at.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN...StThomas.shtml