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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin
Similar experiences from my travels ...... I have forgotten the number of times that my girlfriend has recognised someone she went to school with in remote or far flung places.
I only bother to express surprise of we manage to have a holiday where we 'don't' meet a scouser!
The subject is not that debatable. Most on this thread are going by myth. We are are not of predominately Irish decent, although the Irish are strong in "decent" in the city. The English and the forgotten Welsh have a greater influence on the city. The Welsh legacy is the whole districts they built. If we are to celebrate influence on the city then the Irish down the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Ben, thank you for your solid contribution to this thread. I would like to say you have been a breath of fresh air, but alas I can't!!!
Yep, I agree! Why should one be held above another. If those communities want to have a festival then fine, the city should not officially single one out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Partsky
I think that the subject is open to debate (above 200 posts suggest as much), and I would quote Gnomie's original post - however it just doesn't seem to get through ..... possibly some grime on your screen causing you to misread it ... who knows ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
As I read it - recognition of the Irish contribution was not intended to be at the detriment of other communities .... it was just highlighting the Irish aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Are you waiting for swedish, polish, nigerian, african, jamaican and chinese requests/threads for recognition before you'll be happy to accept the Irish contribution?
Or are you just picking an argument for no apparent reason?
BTW - Bad news on the fan club badges .... the badge shop claimed that your motto of a talking backside was too tricky to manufacture.... Sorry!
Well said partsky :handclap: that is exactly my point. Not everybody in Liverpool has an interest in Irish culture or history. That is not to decry the Irish whatsoever - but there are other communities who get very irritated when it is constantly assumed that most of us are from Irish blood. This is just not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Partsky
Not all liverpudlians are Irish :neutral:
I am not afraid of the men !! :evil:
I understand Gnomie's first post.
.. but there are many other valid posts on this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
That's very true Lindy, there have been many valid posts.
In fact, there are not very many posts that I consider not valid, where views/opinions/historical evidence are put forward.
The parts of the thread that seem to go off on a tangent (aside from the bickering) appear to be the idea that recognising the Irish contribution would in some way be at the expense of the Welsh/<insert culture here> contributions ....
That's not how I read it.
who's the worst north welsh or south welsh? ...............oh **** this is now gonna go on for weeks
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...4L._SS500_.jpg
Irish, Catholic and Scouse: The History of the Liverpool-Irish, 1800-1939 by John Belchem (currently on the shelves at most booksellers including W.H.Smith, Church St. and Waterstones, Bold St.).
Ben, I congratulate you. Not quite there but good enough for you. If the city officially sanctions some sort of Irish festival, it gives the image we are of predominately Irish decent and culture - which as this thread has highlighted, we clearly are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Also, singling out one race that contributed to the mix of the city, and one which was not the prime contributor to the mix, will slight others. As this thread has highlighted, that can be very evocative.
The city should officially celebrate the end result of all these cultural contributions from 100 to 200 years back that made the Liverpudlian culture of today.
Howie, are you Irish? You have a thing promoting Irishness as if it is the prime influence on our city culture. Many here are not impressed as they actually know the history of the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
These Liverpool Irish. Who were they? Where did they live? What did they look like? What did they do? Where did they meet? What language did they speak? I never ever came across any of them despite being brought up in L8. I looked once and never found any. :) Such mythical people.
nothing against the welsh and i am descended from welsh stock but the main difference between the irish and the welsh is that the irish will give you directions , plus when you are drinking in their alehouse they don't start talking in gaelic............... i'm only extracting the urine as this thread is already 6 weeks old on it's 2nd dayQuote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Catch yerself on............(Jim McDonald of Corrie - circa 1999 but could be during any scene since his arrival)
Lighten up - here's an Irish Quiz.
I got none right.
http://www.irishhamilton.ca/quiz_ii.htm
.
jim mcdonald was one of the gangsters in bread with the chief inspector bloke from the bill , before theyboth made the big time in their respective showsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ged
No, I'm English (born and bred in Liverpool). My father's family are of Scots descent and my mother's hail from Bedfordshire. They met during the war at RAF Cranfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
I'm just trying to keep the thread on topic and stimulate debate. Perhaps though you should get out of the south end and visit the north of the city where the Irish influence is more apparent.
Thanks BurnseyQuote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Quality ..... why don't you take some action to promote the remaining cultures, highlighting the percentage of importance on the city of Liverpool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Instead of asking for the Irish contribution to be ignored - ask for the others to be recognised ..... sounds ideal for a city that holds the crown Capital of Culture.
Glad to read you agree with me :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
The only reason you could be raising objections is if you believe that the Irish have not contributed at all to the history of Liverpool.
Include all the cultural contributors .... don't just try to downgrade one because you believe it holds less weight than the other.
Are you going to start a thread for the Welsh to be recognised officially in the capital of culture celebrations ..... or just continue to talk about them on the Irish thread?
Is there anyone out there like me who has only Scouse going back five generations ??? ( could be more than 5 but I havn't delved that far back)
On my dad's side we are all Kirkdale/Walton Liverpudlians right back 5 generations.
On my mum's side - all Anfield Liverpudlians, also going back 5 generations - except for one great grandfather - who was Scottish.
So I regard myself as a real Scouser - how can I be anything else ??? - 'specially as my dad was born within the shadow of Walton Church ( the equivilent of a Cockney being born within the sound of the Bow bells) ... Walton is recognised in ancient history before the rest of Liverpool was developed.
let's celebrate being a true Scouse :PDT_Piratz_26: lol
is there anyone else who celebrates their 'Scouseness' - or am I the odd one out ?? :)
I'm Scouse first, English second. It is good luck were we are born not choice but it was the choice of my parents that stayed here that made my Scouseness possible.
I have seen scouse go back further than 5 generations but it stunk the kitchen out so we threw it in the bin. :)
Is the call for an Irish festival in any way predicated on our perceptions of what such a festival would entail? Music, dancing and drinking? (before anyone jumps on me I'm referring to general perceptions rather than reality).
Essentially, Irish festivals are equated with having a good time.
What does a Welsh festival involve? My perception is that it would be far more serious in nature and therefore less populist than an Irish festival. Not trying to offend the Welsh out there - I just have no knowledge of what a Welsh festival consists of.
I don't want to generalise on behalf of all others on this thread, but surely the general perception of an Irish festival is more positive, from a fun sense, than a Welsh festival?
If you had to the vote, I'm betting most would stump for the festival they'd most enjoy than the one with the strongest links to scouse heritage.
I'll get me coat....
And me tin hat...
:unibrow:
Mine must go back about 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Same here.Quote:
So I regard myself as a real Scouser - how can I be anything else ???
Now that is taking it a bit too far!!! :) L8 is the real Liverpool. :)Quote:
- 'specially as my dad was born within the shadow of Walton Church ( the equivilent of a Cockney being born within the sound of the Bow bells)
I agree :)Quote:
let's celebrate being a true Scouse
A pleasure BenjieQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
A nice offer, unfortunately I will have to decline.Quote:
Quality ..... why don't you take some action to promote the remaining cultures, highlighting the percentage of importance on the city of Liverpool.
I am saying the city should not hold the Irish connection above others, as it is not a true reflection of the city's make up. Benjy, this point has been repeated been made!!! Focus man, focus!!!Quote:
Instead of asking for the Irish contribution to be ignored - ask for the others to be recognised ..... sounds ideal for a city that holds the crown Capital of Culture.
Benjy, unfortunately this is not right.Quote:
The only reason you could be raising objections is if you believe that the Irish have not contributed at all to the history of Liverpool.
You are saying the Welsh don't like to have fun. Ever been to Wales?Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin
Been there many, many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
What I'm suggesting is that the feel-good factor of an Irish festival has a much higher profile than a Welsh festival.
.... time to get out the bold marker, maybe it'll make the point understood
It isn't right ... yet this doesn't appear to stop your rants on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I went to Wales once but it was shut.http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...fs/fencing.gif
A Sunday?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven
I agree completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin
This has pretty much been my impression in my (insignificant) 15 years here.
Benjy, I do not rant. All calm reasoned responses. In fact, I am as cool as a cucumber.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
and that is why I say I have the good fortune to have been born in Liverpool.
.. and I tell my son the same thing - to be glad he was born in Liverpool - the centre of the universe. :PDT_Piratz_26:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin
that did make me laugh :D :D
Absolutely .... 'rant' was a bit of a typo ..... I meant to put 'pointless bigoted ramblings'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
It's funny how your fingers hit the wrong keys by accident sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
re being born in Walton:
being born within the sounds of the historic Walton church bells makes you are true Scouser ;
I like saying it, and I always say it :D - I made it up :unibrow: :unibrow: :D
well, Walton is named in the Doomsday book isn't it ?? I'm too lazy to go look up the facts, but I'm sure it was a ye olde township of Walton on the Hill before Liverpool was thought of. :ninja:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Lost count of the number of times I've mistyped 'Twit'.
:unibrow:
Can't we also have an 08 Festival for black, one eyed, one legged, lesbians. I mean we can't leave them out can we ? If ANYBODY wants to join in ,,,,, let's welcome them with open arms and just have a load of fun.
Toxteth is named in the Doomsday book (prior to Liverpool) .... didn't realise Walton was pre Liverpool as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
(According to Wikipedia, Walton was probably 'Wales-town' (or at least the ancient way of spelling Wales) - back to the Welsh thing ... d@mn!....)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Where is it highlighted that we are clearly not Predominately Irish decent???
Nowhere, apart from in your feeble brain. only you highlight such things, nobody else. read your history books.
OMG you must be God. all obey and do as i say:finger:
Who said single out one? where is that said????Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
I asked for an Irish one, not to deny anyone else their right.
again an assumption by your tiny brain.:)
If the city gets involved in one then it has to get involved in them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomie
Its you who is not impressed. who are the many??? name them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
These Liverpool Irish, they where Irish people who moved here, not so hard to understand is it? they lived North of the city at first, now all over Liverpool.
They looked like everyone else( although your puny mind will of course picture Leprechauns ) they met where ever they liked, where do you meet? They spoke English like you, of course some would have their own language, but would use English in public.
You have never met an Irish person in Liverpool ? :eek::eek:
you have said some stupid things, but that really has you down as an idiot. call the white coats.
Such mythical people. just proves that all you want to do is argue on here by making such a foolish statement.
I havn't heard that one before :shock: Wikipedia is a bit suspect tho'Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Walton was definately an old township though, and mentioned in the Doomsday book as far as I can remember. I am too busy to read up on it.
I seem to recall reading that it was the first stop off place for travellers - it was before Liverpool was developing.