These raids and high presence have to be welcomed and on going. As one bloke on Radio Merseyside said today, even if you built more youth centres, the type we're on about here wouldn't be seen dead in them anyway and would just wreck them.
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These raids and high presence have to be welcomed and on going. As one bloke on Radio Merseyside said today, even if you built more youth centres, the type we're on about here wouldn't be seen dead in them anyway and would just wreck them.
Can I tell you all something without offending anybody?
Are you willing to listen to an informed observer, who is an outsider to Liverpool and its local culture?
Your police in this town, indeed this entire nation, are way too concerned with political correctness, which in turn makes them ineffective. Believe me, I consider myself a left-winger, indeed one of the last true Socialists, but I have witnessed time and time again your local cops getting punked off by 15 year olds. It makes the officers look foolish, and it empowers the punk kid to be even more disruptive and disrespectful.
Recently, I was at a Liverpool match, and outside the gates in the Anfield Road a few of the local kids (..I mean kids too, probably 14 or 15 at most), not entering the game, but just lingering about. They were standing outside a shop drinking beer and hurling abuse at all the 'tourists' invading their neighbourhood. When two burly PC's approached these punks, the cops were almost apologetic to the kids and begged these urchins to behave. Naturally, the kids hurled even more abuse at the football supporters, but worst of all they told the cops to 'F Off'. I couldn't believe my ears! However, what I couldn't believe even more was the the fact that the two cops just walked away and did NOTHING!
Let me tell you, if this was New York, that gang of punks would be looking for their teeth on that corner. After that they would have been going to jail via the Hospital. I'm not advocating police abuse of power, but these cops can't be neutered to the point where they don't have the upper hand in dealing with street thugs. The street is a rough and tumble place. You can't rigidly enforce rules of conduct on officers trying to maintain order in the most unorderly places. Forcing the local cops to grin and bear such abuse is stupid and naive. I'd rather the Internal Affairs Division of the Merseyside Police be left out of the discussion for a while if it meant getting safer streets again. The only thing these yobs understand is the slap of a stern hand and the negative renforcement that comes with a jail cell. You are not going to be able to use reason with a drunk abusive 15 year old who has never had the steady hand of a father or male role model.
One other thing while I'm on my soap box. You don't nearly have enough police officers working in Merseyside. And these unpaid uniformed volunteer what-ever-you-call-them don't cut it either. You need thousands of additional rank-and-file police officers hired in Merseyside (and I would suspect everywhere elsewhere in the UK too). I know the cops are highly paid over here, and this would put an additional burden on taxes and government spending, but from everything I've seen in this country, you no longer can afford not to hire more cops.
Even with the drop in crime rates under Giuliani New York has far higher levels of crimes reported per head of population than Liverpool. :snf (41):Quote:
Originally Posted by bdm
If we must have the community support officer type enrollment, wouldn't they be better suited to tackle the paperwork and red tape we keep hearing ties up the proper officers, and let them get out on the streets doing the job. Better still though, just get rid of the paperwork in the first place, aren't computers and databases supposed to have quickened things up?
Even better still, just get rid of the community support officers and hire a lot more real cops to take their place. It sounds to me this community support officer concept is another way to backhand the cop's union, the police federation or whatever it's called. Eitherway, I'm sure the rank-and-file coppers aren't too pleased that low-paid/volunteer civilians acting as community support officers are doing their jobs. When you lose the morale of the cops through union busting antics like this, you'll get police apathy, and thus higher crime rates. Treat the cops and their trade union fairly, and you'll get more work out of them. I'll also reiterate that I think we should let them do their jobs and not meddle too much in how they go about cleaning up the streets--for now that is. I don't want them to have a free hand forever, just enough leeway to regain some order is all. Nonetheless, the only way to attack this juvenile crime epidemic is to hire a lot more cops and quit interfering with how the cops do their jobs. Until that happens, you're going to get more incidents like the one I described in my last post. You can't neuter your police force in the name of political correctness.
Well there's a lot to be said for the old clip around the ear times but those days will never come back as that's now 'assault' and where there's blame etc etc - you know the rest.
I remember the OSD and the suss law and by and large that was a good excuse for bad coppers to have a free hand on beating people up in the back of vans - remember the documentary not long ago that saw coppers sitting off in a car park eating chips and ignoring a radio call to go to an incident.
Yes, police apathy has to be addressed and i'd even go for recruiting ex soldiers or current ones should their need here when brought back from Iraq and Afghanistan result in them being underused by the army. Lets see the thugs and plazzy gangster deal with someone who's done the real deal.
You are right in what you say BDM.
I'd love those yobs to get a good boot up the backside.
When I go on holiday in southern Spain I notice how authoritive the police look. They look like they don't take no messing !
They look like they will use the baton no trouble !
I remember when we were on a train and the guardia civil were patroling up and down the the carriages - and you only had to take one look at them to see they mean business ! The batons (and I think they had guns) literally brushed past your shoulder as you sat there :shock:
I wish we had stern police like that.
Our police are just made to look foolish now - through no fault of their own.
ps,
Ged. you are right - we need the army now.
Wooo there,
we got stern police here.I have witnessed the way they "bully" the kids.
Some are too handy with their fists.I have seen police sticking two fingers up to the kids and shout abuse at them.This did shock me as I didn't think I would ever see something as stupid as that.
The police also planted some hash on my nephew so they could give him a street caution.Great stuff.My nephew doesn't even smoke!!
So we still have the bully police,the stupid police and the hobby bobby police where I live.
We have had 2 trial bikes going around for the past few days doing what thugs do on them.
No sign of any police anywhere.Am lucky if I see a copper once a week by me.
Anyway thats my two peneths worth!
Quote:
Originally Posted by John(Zappa)
John got your PM, but can't reply as it says that you won't
accept PM,s ?. Can you mail me direct at
steve.m1swb@tiscali.co.uk
Replied!
Having listened recently to a phone in on 5Live about the amount of paperwork currently required for any arrests, its really quite shocking how much there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
One of the complaints being raised time and again by the officers phoning in was the repetition of data on various computer systems. I can clearly remember one saying that you needed to fill out similar information across 6 systems.
Working in IT as a programmer I found it quite shocking. This would be relatively simple project to implement to share data between the systems and therefore reduce the amount of data entry for officers.
The reason given why PCSOs don't do the paperwork was because half the time they'd then have to contact the original officer and get further details to then fill-out. The rational was that it was just as quick for the original officer to fill out all the details. However, it could be improved by the PCSO doing all the repetive information surely...?!?
Needless to say the phone in left me flabber gasted.
My next door neighbour works behind a desk in the Police force described a very repetitive job that takes up a lot of man hours each month. It could easily be solved by a very quick computer program, and thus freeing up time for people to get on with other things... Not necessarily getting more officers out on the beat, but certainly making things more productive...
A NOTORIOUS Croxteth eyesore former pub is to be demolished in a bid to help regenerate and improve the neighbourhood. Read
Went past this on sat, yes what an eyesore - also went past the Western Approaches - there's a pic just been put on my pubs page - guess what was outside. Two police cars, police with kids up against the cars being searched - all black 'uniforms' - the kids that is not the police. Why hang around outside a pub, please don't tell me all their parents were inside?
A little further up, getting a pic of the Fir Tree - again, the police in abundance with cars in the car park due to the Rhys murder.
I do hope the authorities can do something with the area but also hope the police don't disenfranchise themselves from the public by doing anything as silly as JohnZappa said earlier.
I do know most of the kids now have a street caution.Your not cool now if you don't have one.Its a capital of gun culture thing they say???Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
"When I was young, 'PC' meant 'Police Constable'. Nowadays I can't seem to tell the Difference"
(Manic Street Preachers).
How true that statement is.
Why is our Police force still subject to human rights and these petty little laws that prevent anyone from doing, saying or touching anyone, for fear of prosecution? How do you police laws, if laws make themselves unpoliceable?
And when will the Government realise that a fine for a serious offence is NOT a deterrent?
I was talking with a lad from West Derby today, he was telling me that Broadway is regarded as separate to Norris Green...Parnethon Drive being one of the cut-offs.
Now, I must admit to have been somewhat surprised to find this, I always regarded this area as being Norris Green as a whole, with Broadway being the main shopping street for the various estates.
Can anyone say that this is the case??? I am not saying that I disagree with the statement, but I am a little baffled at this remark!
Broadway and Norris Green have always been intertwined in my mind, perhaps I was wrong.
Well Broadway is part of Norris Green. As is the Strand. The Strand are fighting with Broadway and Landford/Sparrowhall.
Partheneon drive is just a walk through. Nothing to worry about around there.
When I was younger The Strand,Broadway and Landford all sort of stuck together.
The divide seems to be The crown pub and The strand. The Broadway firm seem to be stuck in the middle
Regarding the very first post on this thread.....
My nephew took that picture of Phil Wooley with the shotgun wounds. It happened out of the blue. They were all just standing on a corner when the gunman came around the corner in a car.
See that's what I thought...Broadway is a part of Norris Green! But from what the post above suggests, Norris Green seems to have become segregated into these "territories" for wanton of a better expression. I dread to think what Brodie and Keay would make of it all now.
I don't come from this area, but I know it of sorts...I am thinking the "Strand" is the Row of Shops by Scargreen/Utting Ave???
Yeah that's the one. These territories never existed when I was younger. I used to hang around places like The Crown,The strand,Broadway and crocky.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallasey
It was always a school thing - "Our school is harder than yours" when I was a teen. Out of uniform the school enemies where forgotten about.Some you'd even be friends with .
I never knew all this about Norris Green! We don't really have anything like this in Birkenhead, just a few dodgy estates.
Thanks for the info! I'll remember this the next time I am on the 14!
I know its a relatively old thread but I have been off the site due to ill health and all this stuff makes my blood boil. Lindylou, how I agree with you, (mostly.} I used to work on housing for these estates and the decent people, as always, massively outweigh the scallies; every time. Unfortunately, if you live next door or in the same road as these cowards then its very difficult to stick your neck out. I know, because I was one of the so called "officials" trying to get people to do just that. It takes an extraordinary amount of courage to go to court against this shower as they dont use words but they use bricks, threats, knives and guns. Amazingly, brave people continue to give witness testimonies. Its too easy for the parents of the Scalls to look the other way. I have said it before but they know what funds the expensive clothes, bikes and trainers but they look away or blame everyone else (The schools, their backgrounds, the social workers, the police). There is occasionally a grain of truth in that but more often than not, its social and parental cowardice. The inability or unwillingness to parent with boundaries. And as for the Scally Shrines.......... How many more places will have "shrines" (a desecration of a sacred word) to those who often rob cars and total themselves or are caught up in gang warfare. On Formby bypass a couple of years ago gangs of young lads were sat around one of these "shrines" in garden chairs, drinking ale. For days! If my kids stole a car and drove at dangerous speed, killing themselves, I would grieve, of course I would, but quietly. Is this a nationwide trend? Does anyone know?
THE ?200m regeneration of Liverpool?s Boot Estate will not be hit by the credit crunch, developers pledged today. Read
partsky: I think false sentiment is a very strong trend and is reinforced by alchol and drugs. The idea that people dont want to join in mainstream lifestyles is not progressive it is more about deviance. :002: