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Doesn't matter if was £90k or £50k or £1. For that multimillionaire to be on the make while promoting that awful single (which bombed anyway ?) is disgusting. It makes me sick that the richest people in society are all living for free while their fortunes continue to grow and grow. And as for the Beatles legacy, RS was always considered a liability and given half the chance never fails to show it.
AP.
Liability? Please explain?
What EXACTLY did Ringo say that has upset so many here? Does anyone know of a transcript I can read? If you were him, and been living on the west coast of the USA, you need to understand that Liverpool is a shock, I mean a real shock.
The agressive attitudes, poor service and quality in restaurants and pubs, is bad for the most part, the taxis are now all driven by people who speak little English and rely on GPS for God's sake! Most men dress in the now regulation trainers, "tracky bottoms" or this new "hoodie" stuff, and overall the impression one gets is of a city that has lost its indviduality and become a slave to reatilers.
Even if you just lived in the US (as I have) the shock factor is big, let alone being a millionaire like him, so you need to understand what he was saying. He may have been undiplomatic, I need to read the transcript to decide myself, bet lets not pretend there are no problems, sometimes a bad word or two form someone with status can do good, but I dont know if this was his motive.
I agree with Barratie, he was just telling the truth. He actually lives in Monaco but has homes in California and Barbados, with those choices I would have said exactly the same. It sounded bad because the audience laughed when he was asked the question.
I have lived in the USA for 26 years and there is no way I would reside anywhere in the UK any more. It is not just Liverpool that has gone bad, the whole country seems to be terrorised by feral teenagers. There are parts of this country under gang control it seems that the UK only imports what is bad from the USA. That includes American food franchises.
and questionable US TV shows, of which there are far too many examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by shytalk
My wife is from Baltimore and we are both living in Birmingham just now, she is very impressed with Birmingham, but also really likes Liverpool, she is a chatter box herself so loves scousers.
She points out that in the US there is NOTHING like the NHS, paying like 6 quid for WHATEVER is prescribed is a sheer joy to her, in the US she will often end up paying hundreds even with good insurance.
She walks to work along a nice canal too something not easy to do in the US (driving is almost a must).
Overall of course the US wins hands down (in my view) and that is why Lennon went to live in NY, which must have been a great time for him, especially living in the Dakota apartment.
As I walk around the UK (be it Birmingham, London or Liverpool) I am always very aware of the ridiculous bravado displayed by younger men as they simply stroll along. The staring, the hard-man attitude, the lippy comebacks, all are very tiring and so narrow, do they even know how they look?
Liverool always had a rough edge, but I have truly fond memories of being a kid in Hartington Road L8. Our old beat up victorian house was drafty as hell, but a joy at xmas with big coal fire raging.
I was a frequent visitor to Lodge Lane library, and recall walking past an Ice Cream factory partway along Bosweel Street (pics anyone?), the summers were spent in and around sefton park, collecting birds egs and just enjoying the place.
Lodge Lane and Smithdown Road were literally full of diverse stores, I distinctly recall (1970s)
A bakery
A "chandlers"
A coin shop
"The Airfix Shop"
The "Green Shield Stamp fella"
A Telly/Radio repair shop.
Butchers
Car repairs/garage
Chines and Irish chippies
An "upscale" electrics shop, new TVs, etc
A shop that dealt in model trains (that's all it dealt in, for years)
The old "Chloros" bleach factory
The gravestone engravers (actually still in business it seems)
and many more.
The Liverpool of my youth (and the Beatles's youth even more so) was a diverse, multi-facted, place that embraced individuality, color and variety.
Now most young people are completely indoctrinated into the comsumer society, able to view themselves only as either playing the consumer game or dropping out, which these days means crime.
Their views are are heavily influenced by TV and the repetitive ads, "reality shows" and other superficial junk that we see what we see today.
Hello BarratieQuote:
Originally Posted by Barratie
Nice to meet you. You don't need a transcript to know and appreciate what Ringo said, though I think you can find it on YouTube. He was on the Jonathan Ross show immediately after his appearance in Liverpool to open the Capital Culture Year.
Ross asked him, "What do you miss about Liverpool?"
Ringo answered, "Nothing."
That is what has upset Scousers. And it's highly ironic because in his title track song on his "Liverpool 08" CD, the lyrics read, "Liverpool, I left you but I never let you down."
Yet I see the remark, which was unfortunate and ill advised, as one of a piece with the one-liners the Beatles always said in interviews:
"Are you a mod or a rocker, Ringo?"
"No, I'm a mocker."
"How do you find the United States."
"Go to Greenland and turn left." And so on.
Also as you indicated, the remark has to be seen in context of the fact that he no longer lives in Liverpool.
Where do you live, Mate? You mentioned that your wife is from Baltimore. As you can see from my profile, I am a Liverpool ex-pat living in Baltimore. Maybe once you return Stateside we could get together some time. Let me know.
All the best
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
the beatles way back when were very off the cuff and had that whole witty sarcasm thing going (that us scousers do so well!) they were young, talented,in demand & enjoying the ride but they weren't smug or arrogant not then anyway though that may have come later for some of them...
the difference is the one-liners you mentioned were funny & witty, what ringo said was misjudged, hurtful & amusing only to those who don't have anything good to say about the city in the first place. some kind of ambassador he is who stoops to insults to get a laugh! i don't know all the details of his visit i hope he appeared for free & wasn't paid as that would make it far worse & just spiteful. talk about bite the hand that feeds you...Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
as for those who think its his choice to speak ill of the city if he likes - he is not just some run of the mill person as one of the beatles he is still reveered by many in liverpool & around the world thats how strong the beatles legacy is. but what does that say about him as a person that he could be so quick to make such a comment before he jets back to his pampered life in monaco...
& yet despite his many homes & wealth he is becoming increasingly known as a grouch (to put it mildy) he can be unpleasant to autograph hunters and who didn't cringe with embarrassment on hearing that he got really angry while appearing on a top rated show in the US because they asked him to cut his 5 min song down to 2 1/2 mins? the same song btw that he sings 'liverpool, i left you but i never let you down' well not till now that is...
i love the beatles i really do. i have most of their albums and like the vast majority of scousers i feel a certain smugness that one of the greatest bands of all time came from our little city. but as for the beatles themselves i feel they could have all done a lot more for liverpool over the years. when they first started they were known as much for their scouse humour & for being the four cheeky lads from liverpool, as for their music. the city shaped them.
Well I dont see why they, any of them, should do anything in particular for "The City", I really dont know what they could do that would actually have prevented urban decay, destruction of historic properties and communities, rise in drug use and crime etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoequeen13
Liverpool and it's population need to take control of their City, and stop allowing self important administrators to do what they please. We tend to attach too much significance to The Beatles, really we do, we need to move on.
I bet Ringo is really glad that he managed to "escape" the place, it had massive poverty problems back in their day too recall, although it had a much stronger bohemian nature back then, it was a city that meant something.
As is typical in modern "democracies" we tend to sit back and just let our "leaders" set the agenda, define policy, define objectives and all do pretty much nothing about it.
The whole Capital of Culture thing is one big gravy train for some well connected companies and individuals, and little else in reality. I know a lot of people, decent people have been and are working hard on projects associated with this, but ultimately it is about exploting investment opportunities.
I was dismayed to see that the old aviary in sefton park, was not being renovated or even cleaned up for this 2008 celebration. What kind of impression do these councillors want to make on visitors? What has Phil Redmond done here? in fact why do we even have a person that writes dull TV soaps in any position of influence at all?
Imagine visiting sefton park, encountering the avaiary and seeing what is there? a load of filthy, junk filled cells, covered in rust with the roof collapsing. Utterly shameful, a few grand would have fixed that up nicely, I loved it when I was a kid.
The Beatles owe us nothing in my view, they certainly owe me nothing.
Yes, the Daily Mail (not my normal read!) did a two page spread last week upon the theme of "Why is Ringo so bad tempered these days?" citing numerous examples of his rudeness to minions, journalists, fans etc.
I'm reminded of the TV show 'Grumpy Old Men'. Very amusing but every 'grumpy' featured is rich and successful in their respective fields. Is it having lots of money that makes them that way?
Maybe that's why I'm such a ray of sunshine.. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barratie
i'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree...otherwise we'll just go back & forth! i just feel that the beatles were very unique in that the city they came from was very much a part of their identity & when it suited them they milked the connection especially for US audiences who loved the cheeky lad appeal.
(just realised i said lets agree to differ then added a last word... i'm a woman so i would wouldn't i...)
I disagree. Perhaps you should count yourselves lucky they left such a legacy. I mean, look at the number of tourists who flock to Liverpool to visit Beatles-related attractions. The city is profiting from them, and will be after they're all gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoequeen13
In all honesty, I don't see what they owe Liverpool at all.
Wasn't "We're more popular than Christ",Quote:
Originally Posted by shoequeen13
(to quote myself): " "smug and arrogant" (in a lovable Scouse way)"?
It would have been if it wasn't true - or that Maureen Cleeve hadn't misinterpreted how Lennon meant it.
Regarding another comment above. I'd say they never said look at me i'm a cheeky chappie from Liverpool, they were just from Liverpool which made them intrinsically what they were regarding their humour and cockiness. They never used the city to make a play on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Agree totally mate. They were what they were because they were from the city and that was it, end of. I have never heard any of them from interviews at the time playing up the 'scouse wit' thing. They were just 4 cocky lads.
And as you said, the fact is they were more popular than Jesus at the time so Lennon was just saying what he observed, not what he believed.
Yeah, that quote was 6 months old and caused not a ripple when published here - fast forward 6 months to the bible belt southern states of America and beatles bonfires, death threats and dj's pronouncing Lennon as the devil. It could only happen out there of course. Christianity was falling, the promiscuous society was raging, pot smoking hippies and the LSD summer of love around the corner, church congregations falling and the Beatles achieving number one after number one whilst getting m.b.e's and sell out tours. It's true that he was commenting on his observations. If they really wanted to speak out about what they thought politically - but were banned by Epstein - Apartheid and vietnam - then fireworks would have gone off - they might've acted the goat as moptops but they had brains too.
I wasn't criticising the Beatles when I said:
"smug and arrogant" (in a lovable Scouse way)"
Just replace it with the word "Cocky", if it gives offence. :PDT_Piratz_26:
(Besides, this thread is getting very "old".)
No offence taken by me Philip :PDT10
The Beatles can look after themselves.
It would appear though that Lennon's 'observation' was given to Cleave off the record and it wasn't a boast, more of an amazement at the way things were going that they were more popular than Jesus - a reluctant acceptance of sorts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Obviously, I chose that quote as an extreme example, but I remember the Beatles from when I wrote in my Diary: "Saw the Beetles at the Floral Hall tonight" (note the spelling) and they never were "shrinking violets", for which I was eternally grateful after being reared on the Holy Cliff Richard (and the creepily weird Bill Haley).
but i think it was john just being john. it wasn't said with any malice. he didn't mean they were better than or really comparing themselves with christ. but they were soooo huge at the time (still are) so he was really just stating the obvious that they were in fact more popular than christ/religion with the 'masses' as it were.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
you didn't put my quote in so i'll have to read it again to see how i worded it. i really didn't mean for it to sound like they were so hardnosed about it. i just mean i think it helped them - being from liverpool as the way they were did seem so funny & irreverent to ppl at the time but like you said thats just how young lads from liverpool are. we are reknowned for our sarcastic wit. so what i'm trying to say (though obviously not very well..!!) is that being from liverpool shaped them & made them so different at the time & so unique add that to their phenomenal talent & no wonder they were so popular. so to me with that in mind to then go on to **** off the city just seems churlish in the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
no offence taken 'smug & arrogant (in a lovable scouse way)' is the perfect way to describe our cockiness...so now i'm confusing myself does that mean i agree or disagree...?! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Five of the most memorable minutes of my life....
I was in a Los Angeles restaurant for lunch many years ago with the love of my life and who should walk in and sit quite close to my table but Ringo, his missus and a few other people; I actually didn't notice him until I heard this Scouse accent and lots of laughter from the table. I was just awestruck that I was in the same room as him and, believe me, I'm not the kind of guy to hero worship people; my partner was quite stunned at how flustered I was. For quite a long time, heart racing, I thought about going over to shake hands with him but then several random people started dropping by the table and interrupting his meal and I felt sorry for him, though he was quite charming in dealing with it all. I finally thought "Nah, give the guy some peace and quiet; however I try to deal with it, I'll just look like another thoughtless gawker. I'll just nod and wave on the way out and say something like "Nice to see another Scouser in LA".
About half an hour later, I went to the toilet and, as I came back out, he was walking in. I smiled at him and said, "This might be the only place you'll get some peace and quite, Mr Starkey". He spotted my accent straight away and asked me what part of Liverpool I was from, talked about a friend he'd had in Walton, I mentioned that a friend's dad had booked The Beatles for an early gig in Litherland Town Hall and he vaguely remembered the gig. Another guy brushed past us to get into the toilets and I said something like "Ah, well, I'll leave you in peace" but he just touched me on the arm and said "No, we're good, it's nice to catch up" and we chatted a bit more about what I was doing in LA and for a living. He asked me if I ever missed Liverpool. I told him that I had no-one back there still living I cared about and that, from occasionally chatting with other Scousers I met, it had all changed way beyond recognition anyway. He said that that was true but, all the same, it was the city that had made us what we were. I agreed with him and then one of his friends came up and said that they were all leaving. Ringo grinned at me and said he'd better get into the toilet before he wet himself and he shook my hand, patted me on the shoulder and went in.
I went back to my table and told my partner about it; she thought it was incredibly funny because I was so pleased and proud and starstruck. As Ringo came back out and headed to his table to pick up something or other, he gave me the thumbs up and then left...probably with his missus saying "Who was that bloke you gave the thumbs up to?"
He loves his city; it's just not his home any more. Those of us who have a great deal of distance from Liverpool in time and space don't have the fierce pride in it that those still living there do. But that doesn't mean that we are dissing it in saying that there's nothing there that we miss. And we're not so quick to anger if there is some kind of overt or implied criticism of the city.
So......the punchline to the joke.......
"Eh, are you saying there's something wrong with our f***n light bulbs, mate? You got something against Scouse light bulbs mate? Tell, you what, mate, our light bulbs are the best in the f***n world, mate. An' another thing......"
:handclap:
Well said Michaelmace. :handclap:
An excellent recount and joke, cheers :PDT11
Thank you Michaelmace for that anecdote, it gave me pause for thought.:hug:
Hi all,
I gotta say, I've sort of adopted Wales, my heart is here.
I love Liverpool because its where I was born and raised and I still come back quite a lot, but I just can't seem to get as excited talking about it as I do when someone asks me about the Valleys or the Gower, because I don't 'know' it.
My brother and I are poles apart, he still has his canny farm accent, I have a cheshire / scouse / welsh valley accent.
If someone asked me what I miss about Liverpool, I'd have to say 'the people' because from when I lived there nothing's the same, so I cant miss anything else.
The maisonettes in canny farm have long since been flattened. Even Clayton square the way 'I' remember it with the old Victorian buildings has all gone, when I was a kid I used to feed the feral cats there, and my mates and I would laugh cos I said every time without fail, 'this is my square cos its got my name on it!' Clayton square had a character all of its own, and now, to me its just shops.
Penny Lane records in Bold Street held a very special place in my heart and that's gone, and then they did the unthinkable they closed Quiggins :angry:.
Maybe Ringo did, maybe Ringo didn't mean to be obnoxious about Liverpool, I don't know I didn't hear the interview. But in a way I can understand about him not missing anything about Liverpool, because maybe just like me, everything he remembers about Liverpool has gone?
But the people are still the same, still the salt of the earth, and that's what I miss, cos you don't find that in many places, only certain parts of Wales and Liverpool. (When i'm travelling there is still a little bit of scouse lilt to my voice I guess, and every one always says, "Scousers are lovely people)
"There are places I remember
All my life though some have changed
Some forever not for better
Some have gone and some remain
All these places have their moments
With lovers and friends I still can recall
Some are dead and some are living
In my life I've loved them all"
What I can say about Liverpool is this, New Liverpool looks fabulous! I was at spaceport over the river having a coffee a few months back and looking at the New Liverpool skyline and I thought to myself 'wow' its getting on par with New York with all those skyscrapers! But its not 'my' Liverpool, the Liverpool of my childhood, its 'your' Liverpool now, and its a place for you to be proud of.
Shelli
The Ringo Kid
Tried to be a smart arse,,,,but the clown come unstuck,,,,,Ross himself was ambarrased,,,,and lets face it he likes to put the boot in about us scousers himself,,(pwat)
Ringo,,,or better known as,,Big Nose,, should crawl back under the toad stool or were ever he resides these days,,
any way,,,The Big Guy himself,,Macca,,you know muccas x,,,,done us proud the way he spoke about the pool,,,,,,
All in all,,,,,Dingo as gone awol,,,,,,,and his house got knocked down ?
I have a saying,,,,and i think its suits us scousers down to the ground..
Be Mine Enemy But Respect Me.
Bill
The Yamaha drums Ringo used on the St. Georges Hall rooftop. Currently on display in the museum.
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8...scloserld8.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/r...jpg/1/w800.png
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