Thanks for the tip Ged.
Printable View
Thanks for the tip Ged.
Harry,
I think anyone of intelligence could understand what I said about that.
If you can read all my posts on this subject I think you will find that I know more about the Cameo Murders than you could ever ever know.
Kong
Woah Kong, chill man. Harry wasn't insulting your intelligence or your knowledge of the Cameo Murders... he was simply saying that when you typed up this bit:
It reads as if you mean that his father was with him on the day of the murders. You do not, of course but your placement of commas and general syntax make this a confusing statement.Quote:
James Skelly was George`s eldest brother, not his father, who was with George Kelly on the day of the murders.
What you meant to say was;
"James Skelly was with George on the day of the murders, he was George's eldest brother, not his father."
Harry was just being a bit of a grammar pedant.
Thanks for that Fortinian,
Some of us did not have the advantage of an education. There was a war on, there was the Blitz, most of us never went to school, I didnt learn to read and write until I was ten years old. But I do have a Masters for all that.
I educated myself.
A Masters in what, Kong? Which university?
You say you know more about the Cameo case than i will ever know.
Would you say you know more than Mr Skelly, who - as I've mentioned in an earlier post - I met several days ago in Wirral and who I spent quite a while with discussing the Cameo case?
There is a best-selling book called, I think EATS, SHOOTS & LEAVES, which explains how the wrong use of punctuation can drastically alter what you are trying to say. That's all I was saying. And, Fortinian, that is not being a grammar pedant. That is championing the correct and unambiguous Use Of English. And by the way Kong, I left primary school at the age of 15. I even failed my 11+. So you are in good company!
Harryboy, I suggest that you read this entire thread before making stupid posts like that. You might learn something about Capt. Kong and his personal involvement in the case. I think it is rude to correct what people write too. Ask for clarification by all means but don't bring your superior attitude here.
Gentlemen, please...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie
Bernie, if you read he thread you will see that i did in fact ask for clarification. but all i got in return was insult. then Fortinian had to explain matters on my behalf. I am aware of Kongs involvement in the case, thats why i was puzzled as to what he said and the way he said it. I am however also aware of Mr Skelly's greater involvement in the case, and he is the one I was talking to. If you read the previous posts again, you will realise that I was not the one trying to be superior. As for correcting people, that is even more neccessary these days. The widespread illiteracy among school pupils today, is precisely because the teachers fail to telll them when they are wrong. If we are wrong and nobody corrects us, how are we ever going to learn?
If anyone has any doubts about the so called family of George Kelly and there continuing pursuit of compensation, then they should take themselves to Springwood Cemetery to see his grave. George Kelly's body was exhumed from underneath the car park of Walton Prison in 2006 and re interred at Springwood. The grave is a disgrace, covered in dirty red and white plastic flowers with the original floral plastic placard tribute, litter, leaves and lord knows what else. I doubt whether its ever been tendered since the day he was placed there. There is a cheap bamboo border surround around the grave, and bearing in mind it was 3 years ago, there is No gravestone. Thats how much his family care, including his "daughter".
Over to you Emma Gill!
You have a very good point there Famous Scouser. Perhaps a news story out of it would shame them into doing something. I'm sure the Echo would love another oportunity to fill pages with Cameo related stuff - any murders/crimes are big sellers.
You want to see the state of it mate, its a disgrace and anyone with an ounce of compassion would have felt like I did about this mans treatment and lack of dignity in life and death. I wonder what the point of the exhumation was.
The point of the exhumation was to get the sympathy of everyone for someone who never ever knew George Kelly.
Correct. ka-ching!
And here is the said grave. Note the plastic floral tribute placard as you can barely make his details out. This is the only thing that identifies his remains apart from the grave plan that the cemetery has. He was re - interred at Springwood in March 2006.
Do you mean the daughter, Kong?
If I remember correctly, George Skelly in his book states that even before Kelly was cleared by the Appeal Court in 2003, he (Skelly)was negotiating with the Home Office on behalf of Kelly's relatives (daughter?) to have his remains removed to consecrated ground, but the relatives loused it up.
Given that he wasn't even invited to the funeral, and now the latest sad news from famous Scouser about the state of the grave without a headstone, I'll bet Skelly is wondering why he ever bothered.
By the look of the blank "sympathy" card on the grave, it looks as if nobody could even be bothered to put Kelly's name on it!
Your right Scouser. What a shocking lack of dignity for a man who was so cruelly treated by the State!
I feel that this thread has digressed a little. However the observation on the distant relatives and the seemingly neglectfulness of them to his memory, does tell us something. However we might like to ask ourselves why so many people have an interest in the case? I know some people like crime stories and others like to know about the darker side of Liverpool history, and there are those who wish just to know the facts. Well there are also quite a lot of Liverpool people who see the violation of human rights in this topic. The Kelly case is a reminder that capital punishment as a final and ultimate sanction is open to abuse. Since Obama came into power in America twenty death row inmates have been executed. Did you know that? Let?s suppose that one of these inmates was innocent. Then you must also agree that that is one two many. My interest in the case as I have already stated springs from the fact that ordinary working class people in Liverpool always doubted the guilt of Kelly. Some on here have decried the reality of an oral tradition amongst scousers perhaps they themselves are not scousers. If the fate of Kelly had not been held within the hearts of ordinary people he most likely would never have been reprieved. What makes 28 thousand people turn out for a memorial service at Anfield? Might I suggest a sense of injustice? I am against capital punishment for many reasons and one important reason is this case.
Sorry Paddy,
but wrong again! most ordinary Liverpool people did NOT believe in Kelly's innocence for 50-odd years until Skelly's book and Santangeli's investigations, which proved his innocence in the Court of appeal. They didn't believe kelly was innocent mainly because of Connolly's admission - admittedly made under duress -that he robbed the Cameo, "With George Kelly and persons Unknown".
Famous Scouser and others here are not talking about the neglect of "distant relatives", but 2 nephews and a so-called daughter!
As for digressing. What has Obama and recent American executions got to do with a Liverpool hanging of an innocent man 59 years ago. For all we know - until you can prove otherwise, as Kelly has been - they may have all been guilty.
Also, the 28,000 were at Anfield primarily to pay their respects to 96 people, among them their relatives, who were unfortunately killed at a football match. Again, sad as that was, where is the connection?
As for non-scousers refuting the Liverpool "oral tradition". Please count me out.I was born and bred in Liverpool.
I think we should all be congratulating Famous Scouser for what he has uncovered about this matter.
And by the way Kelly was not "reprieved". He was exonerated from the crime by the highest court in the land. not through the "hearts of ordinary Liverpool people" but through the actions of only two determined ordinary Liverpool men, Skelly and Santangeli. If we were to go by Liverpool "alehouse talk" and local gossip, Kelly would still be lying under a car park at Walton prison, stigmatised forever as a ruthless killer.
Your verbose reply and rancor shows you take umbrage with me on my position. Are you Mr. Skelly?s agent or PR MAN? The issue is not who is who in this murky business, rather why it happened and why it should not happen again. You plainly show in your answer that you are not against the death penalty so any debate on the core problem is worthless. Regards the demonstration of Liverpool fans the sentiments of ordinary people you seem to see as meaningless. If you were promoting a book on the Hillsborough disaster would you feel the same way? I think your campaign for Skelly will hinder rather than help. If you were born and bred in the city how come your not clued up on these matters?
Out of respect for the memory of George I think this will be my last input.
Judging by the state of the grave Harry, he may as well have stayed under that car park. At least there was visible identification of who he was, more than can be said for now.
As for the thread digressing, not on my part. It is a thread about a, George Kelly and b. the Cameo murders and whats more, it was started by a Kelly familly member telling us about the injustice of "uncle Georgie" and the way he was treated. I wonder how much of the injustice extends to the state of "Uncle Georgies" grave or the apparent contempt that this family member has for that Hero George Skelly who I happen to know was accused of "cashing in" on her uncles memory by writing a book. Can you believe that, the very book that exposed the injustice and the very man that brought out the truth and will do so again on another infamous case of Balmers.
Harry, bang on. George Kelly has his conviction quashed and most Liverpool people believed that he was guilty because Charlie Connolly had to plead guilty to save his life.
Paddy, I think I'll let the other contributors here judge who is the verbose and rancorous one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
Why should you label me as pro-capital punishment simply because I differentiate between guilty and innocent people. Would you have pardoned serial killers like the Yorkshire Ripper and Fred West? I don't think your "ordinary Liverpool people" would have.
And by the way, Famous Scouser, you had better watch out! It seems anyone who tells the truth and corrects inaccuracies of fact by Paddy- who doesn't seem to know the difference between a reprieve and a quashed conviction - is automatically labelled Mr Skelly's agent or PR man!
Finally Paddy, since you say this is your last word on the subject, I've noticed that you have never once given any appreciation or praise to Messrs Santangeli, Skelly or people like Famous Scouser. Are you saving it all for the "oral tradionalists" among the "ordinary Liverpool people", who did nothing for nearly 60 years to correct a blatant miscarriage of justice?!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famous Scouser
We have recently found out about this site, and have read over the last few months with interest about the so called people who "know" everything about the Kelly Family and in particular the affect it had on his immediate family throughout their lives, as someone who is very closely attached to the immediate family I wish to just confirm that in fact George is not buried in Springwood Cemetary so I do not know which grave this person is talking about. Also with regard to the compensation, again take it from me that no family member has received one penny in compensation, this includes his daughter and because of legal fees no one is likely to receive anything!!!
Another fact which should be pointed out which I do not think many people are aware of is do people realise that George Skelly was in fact a researcher for Mr. Shortall before he went on to write his book. There are many many discrepancies which have been written on this site which have upset and angered certain family members, in particular with relation to the matter of compensation, and buriel site. If you are not 100% certain what you are talking about then do not make assumptions about family members of George Kelly, because none of you realise what implications his death had on the Kelly Family.
What a load of cr*p! George Kelly is indeed buried in Springwood Cemetary grave number 554. If you check the press cuttings(of which I will try and dig out later) it will also show you that his remains were re-interred in Springwood (Otherwise known as Allerton Cemetery). I can also give you a name and a telephone number to speak with the cemetery researcher to confirm it if you so wish.
Then there is Shortall. Wrong again! George Skelly was no way ever a researcher for Shortall. It so happened that Shortall approached Skelly with a view to co-writing a book. Shortall got what he wanted and split from the collaboration to write his own book, which if you were a family member, will know that it was factually wrong and relaesed AFTER George Skelly's work!
Kathleen Hughes allegedly did receive a large amount of money and reportedly/allegedly bought a big house from the proceeds.
We do not profess to know everything about the Kelly family as you state, we don't really care about the Kelly family either, but we do know an awful lot about the Cameo case and what went on. We also know how much time and dedication both George Skelly and Lou Santangeli put in that culminated in the quashing of George Kellys conviction. Not one of the Kelly familly thanked either men at the conclusion.
Nice ploy to throw us off the trail Jess. Didnt work I'm afraid. That grave most certaily is George Kellys and is in a most sorry state. Maybe with you being so closely attached to the family, you can do something about it?
Here you are Jess. Read and digest.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/4854332.stm
Dont make me out to be a liar, I have done my homework my friend. You should be ashamed.
I suppose I concocted the floral name placard on the grave that says faintly, but clearly readable GEORGE KELLY??
It seems, Jess that you have indeed been rumbled.
The Kelly family cared so much for the people who helped to clear his name that they locked me and George Skelly out of the Cathedral, with security men on the door. There was only two of us and we had to stay in the cold wind and rain.
He is indeed buried in Allerton Cemetery.(Springwood Cemetery)
Jess,
if you are as close to the Kelly family as you say you are, you must know - when you say nobody has received a penny - that Kelly's daughter at the conclusion of the succesful Appeal, requested, through her barrister, to be reimbursed immediately, a sum of approximately ?200 to cover her rail fare to London and accommodation costs. This can be verified if you read the full official Appeal judgment on the Website, which I'm sure Famous Scouser, through his so-far brilliant research, will undoubtedly direct you to.
I think, if it was my father who had been finally cleared of murder after 50 years,I fiirst of all would have thanked those responsible, one of whom was actually in the Court, and then willingly have walked back to Liverpool with overwhelming gratitude and joy in my heart.
And for what it's worth imho there's nothing wrong with the death penalty as long as you get the right person. Don't blame the result Paddy, blame how you reached the result. Get that important bit right and everything's fine.
There are/were people like the Wests, Shipman, Sutcliffe, Bamber, Brady, Hindley, Huntley, Ryan, Neilsen who should never have drew another breath or enjoyed the air the universe affords us.
wow... isn't this whole thing about a man who died for no other reason except for the fact he was poor. An easy target. It's not about who knows more, who knows less, or who got money. What happened to George and Charles was an affront on all of us.
When we stand back and allow those things to get in the way of the story and what should be remembered, we lose. They lose. We must learn from our history. George Kelly died because due process was denied. His rights to a civil and fair trial were denied.
There is a movie being made, the screenplay is almost done, and the film will give George and Charles the trial they never got. Trust me. Anyone who played a part in clearing their name will be remembered.
They just didn't fight for George Kelly, they fought for every person who was ever denied their basic inalieable human rights.
.
Canadian Lad, what you say is so true. I couldn't agree more.
But we must show our disapproval if certain people are not interested in justice and a fair trial or a wrong excecution, but simply filthy lucre.
Interesting news about the movie. Seems you have inside info on this. Is it George Skelly's long-awaited film of his book, The Cameo Conspiracy?
.
yup, based on his book with additional research.. but basd on "The Cameo Conspiracy".. Colin McKeown and Julia Stannard are producing...
I think this is the ongoing project for which George Skelly is still wrinting the screenplay. I could be wrong though.
A Bit confused here Canadian. If Skelly is doing it, as famous Scouser tells us, why would he have to do "additional research" on his own book/screenplay?.Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianLad
:handclap::simply my question, see my answer to famous scouser on the cranborne road mrder site.????
actaully being written by two other writers, based on George's book...
So, Canadian, Skelly is Not writing it?
I'm even more confused now because according to Famous Scouser, who seems to know a lot about it, it is Skelly who was writing the screenplay. Or do you mean it is Skelly and another writer?
george is being kept aware on it and being asked for advice and info, so yes, George is involved and being the respect he so deserves