Scouserdave.
My love of tall buildings is nothing to do with penis envy.
My ****'s the biggest on this forum and it works fine.
AK1.
If I want height, why shouldn't I get it?
I have as much right to input on this city as anyone.
As for that list of European cities, they all have many taller buildings than Liverpool has.
You wont find much of our 1 & 2 storey crap there though.
The centre moving onto the waterspaces, as opposed to "waterfront" (this is a term used by sharks to justify filling in docks and face buildings towards the river).Quote:
Originally Posted by The Teardrop Explodes
The Dock Rd has to be broken up. The Strand can become a Ramblas as in Barcelona instead of windswept urban throughway for cars. Improving the rail infrastructure by using the Dingle station and the Wapping and Waterloo tunnels will negate car usage to the centre. Throughways should curve around the centre, not through it.
The Central Docks plans I see problems. Peel will want to keep the partially in-filled Trafalgar Dock fully filled and want, if not initially, the in-filling of West Waterloo Dock. They have no intention of restoring the docks to full deep water capability - the historic ships at Birkenhead need a new home and these would have been ideal.
There are moves to get these docks into the full WHS zone and get them fully excavated. Go to Google Earth and look at the satellite picture. The outline of the original Clarence Dock (the first dock with a half-tide dock and had spring loaded non-return lock gates) can be seen - the angles quays are clear) even after Clarence docks power station was built and now demolished. The outline of Trafalgar and Victoria Docks are still there complete with granite quays. There is no reason why these historic water spaces can't be excavated and inventive buildings built around the quays.
The problem is that much of the south and north end of the city adjacent docks areas are just glorified council estates - and full of far too many "scallies". Canal boaters require an escort on the Leeds-Liverpool canal from Maghull to Stanley Dock, as they are stoned along the Liverpool stretch. Liverpool also has to work hard on its people problems.Quote:
NEXT however has to be a Phase 2 (made possible by the success of Phase 1), and that is to reignite the Districts, alleviate this ring of poverty which surrounds the centre and mars all the city centre approaches. So:
Phase 2: Great Howie St, Scottie, London Rd, Wavertree Rd, Smithdown/Parly, Prinnie Avenue, Parky and the districts Vauxhall, Everton, Kennie, Tocky, Dingle..all become enriched, reinvigorated, repopulated by the economic spur provided by the success of Phase1, and these districts become a kind of Greater City Centre each with their own separate and distinct thriving centres of activity and attractions.
To make it a success and attract the middle classes back into the centre, these areas have to be broken up somewhat and private developments introduced. Bringing the Dingle underground rail station back on line would be a great step to regenerate that area and attract private developments around the station - fast transit to the centre and beyond - and to the airport (well sort of if that useless Parkway is regarded as the airport). A similar thing could be done around Merseyrail stations in the north end too. Make the stations the centre of the district as in London.
Do dot be fooled by hype that a footie stadium will regenerate Anfield. It will do little if nothing. There will an initial investment, but it is unlikely it will maintain growth of any significance. There has been two large stadia in the area for 114 years and they have done little for the areas - in fact the reverse.Quote:
Again we can put a provisional tick against the fact that some of this is already being ennacted ie New Anfield proposed regeneration of that area and the Edge Lane/Kennie redevelopement.
Look at http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk The canal link pageQuote:
We're at the start of a very exciting journey. We are in effect attempting to 'build' a new city in a way. It's on that scale. As such it's only when we see those changes happening in Phase 2 (and then beyond) can we really say that we were successful or not.
As far as the actual welfare of the people of this city is concerned Phase 2 is the real objective.
Talls buildings for tall sake is not a good thing. Tall and quality and where it should be tall then fine. In fact much of Liverpool can be talls off the dock water spaces lined up on the hills. A tall or two at Dingle with the underground station beneath? Croydon has a high rise cluster and not one is of any note whatsoever. Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham are building bland, boring off-the-shelf designs - there is an apendix in the instructions that tells you how to calculate the footings and what colour glass to choose and list of the parts and where to buy them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry
Waterways, you're right about the footprint of a building affecting its height but this works both ways.
The Cesar Pelli building in the PDSA has lost 3 floors which, besides massively reducing a developers potential value from the site, makes the reduced finished article appear stumpy and misshapen and consequently has a far worse effect on its neighbours than the original plan would have. This factor is never taken into account by those who think they are protecting the city by introducing height restrictions.
Unfortunately if you want tall then it is outside the WHS and buffer zone. By the end of the week we will know if Brunswick Quay Tower has the go ahead. If this goes up expect more talls down that end of the Docks. Harrington and Toxteth Docks are rife for talls and excavation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry
anybody got any recent pics of L1? And does anyone have detailed pics of the model, im interested in the buildings that are going to form the opposite side of paradise street to john lewis all the way along back to macdonalds
Here's the thread but it hasn't budged since a few months ago.
http://static.flickr.com/110/310913756_93f4cea5c6.jpg
http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/7926/psda04xq2.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/5127/psda03ja6.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/1379/psda01qp4.jpg
http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/3256/psda02ql7.jpg
Here's a couple of latest renders off Bammy on SSC of how the new Chavasse park will look,what's that mysterious silver dome going to be?
they are nice, see a section of the the old dock is going to be there, complete with water
Chance to inspect Paradise project access plans - SHOPPERS are being invited to have alook at £1m plans to improve access to the new Paradise Street project once it opens for business.
I am excited about this, we do need it, but I have to say it doesn't look too pretty to me. (What is that patch of pond for anyway??). We're not seeing inspired magical spaces being created here- which seems a shame.
I'm assuming it'll look a bit better when it's built but for this plot at least there's nothing there to add to the list of notable Liverpool buildings and nothing to attract a European daytripper who wouldn't have come anyway.
... O.K. I'm being a bit picky here I know, just that renders 2 and 4 remind me of Brackley or Slough or somewhere.
Also that water feature seems a it lame to me, It would've been fantastic had it actually been a canal linking up with that strip of water in Central Village...which to repeat should also be a canal.
Chavasse park should turn out quite nice but how it'd tranform the whole site if it had something truly iconic on top of that hill you could go up....something like an Eiffel tower in other words...
I know what you're saying but they're only renders remember,the finished article will be much better just have a little faith.Once developments like this are completed attitudes amongst the locals will start to change about Liverpool.
Have any views shown the Odeon multiplex?
Is it still going to be over a store on the old Bus Station site?
Let's hope they sort it so that passengers will actually be able to get off the bus in the bus station, not be dumped off in Duke Street, which is what happened before the Hanover Street roadworks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
Now, of course, everybody is dumped off at Lewis's.
I remember when all buses went to the Pier Head!
I have never been to the new bus station, I think it is so inconvienient to get to. And seems so far from normal routes people walk to and from work.
An interesting and quite scary piece of info:
A girl I work with got a black cab into town yesterday and the driver told her his sons had to go to Manchester to find work as labourers cos of all 'the Polish immigrants' working on the Paradise Project... then, he said to my work mate he had joined the BNP because of this!!!! What the hell type of logic is that?
Then, he gave her a leaflet!!!
Not to mention she looks Spanish or Brazilian...
Imagine if she would have been a tourist, or a decision maker for something in the city!!!!:disgust:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
Thats an absolute disgrace. The city council's guidance note for taxi license applicants states that drivers should "uphold the councils equal opportunities policy in respect of all groups regardless of sex, creed, race,colour, nationality or type of disability". I dont suppose your mate got the plate number?
no she didn't!
I think she was so taken aback by it, she couldnt wait to get outta the cab!
Thats just scaremongering. So what if there are loads of polish people working there, as long as they are good enough to do it, let them. It doesn't matter where they come from or what beliefs they have. They are obviously employing them because they are such good workers and they have to be paid the same as anyone else. I work in Manchester Airport and there are loads of Polish people there. So what! If they can do the job, give it to them wether they are black, white or bloody Polish. I hate racism and despise racists. Anyone who is racist in uneducated and naive!:disgust:Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
I can almost beat that.
The other day I got the bus from Sefton street (L8) to James street, its not very far, but it was a very entertaining bus ride. First of all the driver nearly drove straight past me, then suddenly noticed me, braked and stopped about 20 miles down the frickin road! Then we got to the pier head and he started to turn right, into the road which goes between the Port of Liverpool building and the Cunard building. Suddenly I hear a deafening car horn beeping, which kept on going for about 10-15 seconds because the bus was cutting off a car and nearly causing a crash, the bus driver was hanging out of the window showing off how his middle finger looked and shouting abuse. I thought OK, not too bad, the horn was annoying after all.
Then he lets the car go though before him, and speeds after him, tailgating at a distance which must have only been a few feet, mumbling abuse to himself. Then we come up to some traffic lights, we pull up along side the car and he opens the doors and tries to get the car driver to come aboard for a fight. He was there for 20 odd seconds shouting phrases such as 'come on then ****head, i'll break yer ****in testicles' etc. After what seemed like a lifetime the lights went green.
I didnt say thankyou when I got off.
:eek:
Lovely story.
It always make me smile when people thank the driver after he's thrown them all over the bus.
Especially after the long slooow trek down Renshaw Street to Lewis's when the driver practises putting the brakes on each minute or so, so each standing passenger crashes into the one in front!
"Thank you, driver".
I had a go at a driver for that once. They are trained not to do it. I also wrote a letter to his employers because of his couldn't care less attitude. They wrote back saying the would investigate and I heard nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
They are. They are cheap. The man has a point. Local labour should be hired first.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK1
I hate racism and I hate locals being discriminated against too - in their own city.Quote:
I work in Manchester Airport and there are loads of Polish people there. So what! If they can do the job, give it to them wether they are black, white or bloody Polish. I hate racism and despise racists. Anyone who is racist in uneducated and naive!:disgust:
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK1
I despise racism too. Racists are uneducated or just plain ignorant people.
Listening to the morning news about the governments plans to make long-term unemployed find work or cut benefits. They were are talking about hard- core long term unemployed who refuse to find work and milk the system.
Some say that the work is not there .. and yet in the next breath people are complaining about immigrants taking the jobs !!
Well, which is it ?? There are jobs or are not jobs out there ??
There must be jobs then if foreigners are 'taking' them ??
I think the general opinion is that the jobs are there, but British people aren't bothering to look for them or take them. I think they're saying that if Polish people can come here and get jobs, why can't unemployed British people do it?
I'm sure there are lots of people who try and find work but don't have much luck - fair enough - but I'm sure there are plenty who have no intention of finding a job and enjoy freeloading off the system. I think the benefits system is good for those who genuinely need it (I claimed JS allowance myself for a couple of weeks whilst between full-time education and full-time employment), but some people can't be bothered with working and are happy living off benefits instead.
If they live in this country, I see them as local people. Just because they are from another country doesn't meen they should be treated differently. You are basically saying that jobs should go to locally born people first, even if they aren't as capable as people from other countries. The fact is, alot of Liverpool born people have backgrounds from other countries, so where do you draw the line? You are being naive! It's your kind of attitude that causes devision in this world. People are just people, if they abide by the law and are decent people, then they can live and work where they want as far as I am concerned. We are all human beings and we need to get on with eachother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
The Goverment of this country has a duty of care towards those people who elected them to best safeguard their interests, the people whose taxes pay for the workings of said Government.
In this way a responsible Government is like a gatekeeper to say a large house. This house has x amount of people and finite resources which must be carefully managed and safeguarded to ensure the interests of the house.
Except we don't live in a country in which it's possible to have a reponsible Government and said Government's business friends are getting fat off labour savings and hang the jobs and wages of those people who actually voted them in.
The poor 'get it' first of course.
Agreed! Alot of immigrants do the jobs that British people don't want to do. There are plenty of jobs out there, so what if a Polish person is employed instead of you. If they can do the job, let them. I dont give a s##t where they are from. Where do you draw the line, if a Manc wants a job here, do you refuse them because they're not a scouser? Do you stop a cockney or a scot or a duchman or a romanian etc etc Get my point? Why can't we all just get on? This planet would be so much better if we did!:) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by snappel
"The Poles do the jobs the British don't want to do"
When dumb cliche's take hold they really take hold don't they? Surprised you didn't mention how "lazy" the white working class are too. Or how they invented AIDS. Or how they eat their kids. Why not?
Since when were the British middle-class qualified to surmise, less so JUDGE what the long-suffering working-class do or don't want to so?? They already dictate what they actually CAN or can't do, how much more sway do they want ffs?
The truth is AL1 I never met anyone who didn't want to better themselves
but it's your thoughtless reciting of these Murdoch/ Talksport/ Mail cliches which consign vast swathes of our city's population to the dumper.
Let's get some FACTS down shall we?
1. "The Poles do the jobs the British middle-class don't want to do."
2. "The Poles do the jobs that the Britsh working-class would like to do if the wages were at a rate so that they could AFFORD to do them. The indigenous people do NOT having the option of staying for only 8 months, living 15 to a room and sending the £24.29 back, tax-free mind, to some slum homeland where it becomes enough to buy a soddin house."
Always make a quick-buck. Always seek to exploit. Always blame the workers. AL1 your position has powerful friends.
..and no offence meant at all AL1, don't mean to sound dismissive, it's just that there's a much bigger picture here I think you're missing. The plight our city's people (and yes I do mean those who are born and brought up here) matter more to me than amassing well intentioned but damaging brownie-points.
I'm on the same wave length as you AK1. I could have written that myself!Quote:
Originally Posted by AK1
Yes, lots of Liverpool born people have backgrounds from other countries - and other places in UK.
As you say - where do you draw the line ??
If people are decent and law abiding I don't care where they come from.
People are just people - I always say that AK1. We all basically want the same thing, ie; a half decent life, reasonable health and wealth, our loved ones around us, and a bit of peace hopefully!
I can't understand this division that some people insist on. Why oh why will people never get on !??
(The only people I would love to be divided form is the scumbag, crimeridden low life crawling around our neighbourhoods):disgust:
Teardrop ... by the way ... although I did say that basically we are all wanting the same thing - blah, blah, I'm talking about people with a bit of initiative and a bit of ambition - people who want to make the best of what they have in life's lottery .... but there are SOME who do not want to be bothered bettering themselves or their situation. You say that you never met anyone like this.
I Have. More than once too.
ps,
Who drifted us off thread with this one ?? :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
Exactly what I was trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Here's a couple of updated renders of the new John Lewis and Debenhams.
http://www.liverpoolpsda.co.uk/Proje...ite+Images.htm
Some pics from this evening - 6th Feb 07:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/3...e480f4aa7f.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/3...313d78dfc7.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/154/3...832b65e579.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/3...d274e00e1d.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/3...e9a01cad06.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/3...8388e5344e.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/3...5ba788606a.jpg
Fine pictures and coming along nicely, Kev.
:celb (6):
Complain to the bus company and have him sacked. Liverpoolis European City of Culture next year and in some areas of the service sector neanderthal attitudes still exist like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by twiz