Rockfield Road - 14th August 2006
http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/nort...ock1408061.jpg
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Rockfield Road - 14th August 2006
http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/nort...ock1408061.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
I agree. Nice large houses in many cases. TERRIBLE neighbourhoods. The problem in my opinion is not the houses, but the government. Why does the City Council, police, etc. allow such bad neighbourhoods to continue to be so terrible? Why don't they patrol and clean them up? Start arresting thieves, trespassers, arsonists, yobs, gangs and drug dealers? These are the real questions. Don't they realise that when they tear down the houses in bad neighbourhoods, the bad elements will remain in Liverpool (They will just move on to cause trouble to houses still left standing and the families that occupy these houses?) So the City Council's so-called 'Social Cleansing' will not solve the underlying problems - it will just move the problems on to a new neighbourhood (Perhaps even yours and mine)...
I agree, they do appear to be using demolition as a means of addressing anti-social behaviour. It doesn't make sense. :sad:
I was 'verbally abused' by the street arabs when taking the above pictures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:
The houses aren't the problem! They are what make the neighbourhood what it is! Ok, the locals do have some sort of influance on how the area turns out but there is no need to take it out on the houses!Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
I do agree that the backs of these houses can be very grotty. Especially if your home backs onto one of the shop blocks that are totally or partially derelict. If you go to the Dorothy Street/Wavertree Road area, you will see what I mean.
I cannot congratulate you enough for capturing these homes before they are pulled down; I will be making it a priority to get over there next week once I have settled in and moved. That's if the street hasn't been cordoned off!
Well Done
Russ
Demolition is too good for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.D.Williams
Seems a big amount of Anfield/Everton house are abandoned like in Dave's pics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban
Yes, those tiny two up- two downs are far too small. My dad was born and raised in one off Goodison rd. Many of them though, are renovated, and the people have them like little palaces. But I would'nt like a house that small.
Many of the new builds are equally as small as I already said. Some of them are walk in off the street too. The ones that do have a small entrance hall are narrow enough that your shoulders almost touch the walls!
I wouldn't mind a new build if I could afford one of the big detached ones !! :D
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
We a family of 5 lived in a 2 up 2 down, outside toilet and all that lark... Today I own my own home, a 3 up 2 down terraced house...with an inside toilet... built in the 60's ..Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylou
Progress eh? :)
Yes, it's already happened in mine - Anfield. They moved problem families here and the area detiorated. When I was growing up here it was a good area .. and it was certainly a good area in my grandparent's times. The big houses had proffessionals like solicitors, doctors, etc, living in them. The area started detiorating after 1980's.Quote:
Originally Posted by julia
It's sad to see it like this now. Mind you, there are still some nice parts here and there still surviving the anti-social onslaught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban
So why are you bringing up TERRORISM.... and why are you ****ging the working class wholive in terraced houses, when you are proud to be a member, of the "Chav" classes ?...........
Housing should be improved for the working classes...social cleansing is not the solution though is it?
yes, it's amazing how big families lived in the tiny 2 bedroom terracesQuote:
Originally Posted by FKoE
- families with 6 or even 10 kids ! No inside toilet and a tin bath !! :D
My dad's neighbours had 8 daughters and on Friday nights the whole family would use the same tin bath full of water !! Ha ! (ugh! ... but that's how it was in those days !) They couldn't afford to heat up refills for the bath for all of them.
Once a month we used to go to the washhouse.. remember them... you'd all share the bath.. then yer mam would throw in the washing... and we'd all struggle home with half a ton of wet washing in a borrowed pram :D
:D :D
"Social Cleansing" Thats an awful phrase! I would hate to be a victim of such a cheap and nasty phrase!
Shame on Liverpool City Council!
First cinema in city to be demolished
Sep 13 2006
By Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/ic...9E9702B417.jpg
THE first purpose-built cinema in Liverpool is to be bulldozed and replaced with flats.
Councillors gave the go-ahead for the demolition of the one-time Bedford Hall picture house, in Walton, despite last-ditch pleas to save it.
The cinema opened on Boxing Day, 1908, about two years before aboom in the movie industry led to a string of public theatres opening across the country.
Cinema historians claim the picture house, in Bedford Road, is of national importance because it predates that building rush.
But Liverpool city council's planning committee was told appeals to have it listed and saved for future generations have fallen on deaf ears.
More...
They'd better not turn it into a poncey wine bar.
How about a new art gallery?
PLANS to continue demolishing and rebuilding thousands of Merseyside homes over the next five years took a big step forward today.
Housing experts were lodging a bid with the government for millions of pounds, with the message "let us finish what we've started".
But for the New Heartlands programme to continue as planned, officials need a guarantee that they have government support for the foreseeable future.
The scheme was the brainchild of deputy prime minister John Prescott, but responsibility has now passed to communities minister Ruth Kelly.
Pauline Davis, managing director of New Heartlands, said: "The government launched this as a 15-year programme and got right behind it.
"We've worked so hard to get our plans into place and speak to residents on the ground.
"They're now ready to see action. We want to go faster, but we're bound by the money we've got.
"This bid is about bringing it home to the government that we're part-way through a journey and we need to know they're still behind us."
New Heartlands has teamed up with eight other schemes to ask the treasury to fund their work. If ministers give money to Mrs Kelly's department, they will then battle for ashare of the cash to continue their individual projects from 2008-11.
New Heartlands will use its money to continue its present work in Liverpool, Sefton and Wirral communities, rather than spread out to new areas.
Its plans are furthest advanced in Birkenhead, where the Ten Streets area is now flattened, and Bootle, where new housing developments are being built.
In Liverpool, work has been held up in some areas by residents determined not to move. Public inquiries have been held for the Anfield, Wavertree and Edge Hill schemes.
Rising house prices are used by some residents as evidence that demolition is not needed, and it has become increasingly expensive for New Heartlands to buy up properties. Source....
What do YOU think?
Went all over the place yesterday; eventually, I ended up here...
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The ill-fated old picture house in Walton. To be honest, I cannot think of any other use for this building apart from commercial (like now) But, this is unique to Walton and so dies have some right to be saved???? I wouldn't mind seeing the plans for the new building though. Hopefully it will fit in!
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/972...pool029oc2.jpg
I know this isn't anything to do with demolision but it's a nice shot and shows what the new building on Bedford Road needs to fit in with (if you get me drift!)
After Walton, Anfield (after the game) was my next stop. To be honest, I had never been around here during or after a match and so it was strange to see streams of red pouring down Belmont Road and Arkles Lane!
Anyway, I thought it was time to pay homage to Lake Street...
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/826...pool046uq9.jpg
This image says it all really. To be honest, by looking at this image, you can see that the houses needed to be pulled down and I hope that something like a plaza will be installed here as part of the regeneration of the area.
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The other side of Lake Street is still standing (just)
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The site of the terraces on Lake Street. The pavement was only two paving slabs wide (length ways) which must have been fun when two people had to pass eachother!
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5...pool056yo2.jpg
This is the saddening part when terraces are pulled down. The detailing here will never be seen again; it is highly likely that the new buildings (if that is going to be put here) won't have the "identity" that these terraces have. The Victorians/Edwardians didn't need to put detailing on these houses but they did. Doesn't that show how standards had gone down over the years?
Bloody hell! Half of Lake Street gone. T'anks for the pictures Wallasey, squire.
A 59-year-old woman has won a legal challenge to a major urban regeneration programme involving the demolition of hundreds of houses.
Mr Justice Forbes has overturned a compulsory purchase order which would have forced Elizabeth Pascoe to move from her Liverpool home.
The demolition is part of the government's Pathfinder initiative.
The judge also ruled that Mrs Pascoe's right to private and family life had been violated by the order.
Mrs Pascoe's solicitor, Phil Shiner, said the judge had overturned the CPO and declared that English Partnerships, the acquiring authority, had acted outside its powers.
She challenged the CPO granted to English Partnerships to buy and bulldoze 500 homes at Edge Lane West in Liverpool for a new road scheme into the city centre and new housing.
It was the first in a series of CPOs planned by the Urban Regeneration Agency for deprived inner city areas.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/5384472.stm
So where does this leave the whole regeneration of the Edge Lane area? Will they simply renovate them back to their former glory? Will the regeneration never happen leaving Edge Lane into a further nose dive?
She's put a fly in the ointment eh?
The entire project is up in the air now.
Thousands of people stand to loose out on a hell of lot now. I hope theres a solution to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FKoE
Tony Blair yesterday said that new homes are to be 40% more energy efficient and that by 2050 emissions will be 60% less in the UK. The UK has the oldest housing stock in Europe - click on the link in the sig below and go to the Land Article on why this situation exists. These old homes are not energy efficient at all and consume a lot of energy to heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
If we are to renovate old house they will not meet the current, and new, energy levels. It is cheaper and quicker to demolish and start again. In most cases in home renovation that is the case.
In future, as energy costs rise, people in these homes will be spiralled into fuel poverty. Nostalgia can be a nice thing, however reality has to set in sometimes.
The burden of nostalgia is a heavy weight.
I see Ringo doesn't live in one of these houses anymore. I wonder why.
that sounds contridictory .. if the case is create more fuel efficent buildings..then every pre-1970 building should be demolished.
The Edge Lane demolitions/regeneration were more to do with creating a gateway into the city centre than creating new homes for the existing community.
I agree. Let's fill in the disused docks and put wind turbines on them:unibrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterways
Have just heard the news. Liz Pascoe, resident of Kensington, and an Environmental Science graduate of the School of Biological & Earth Sciences at Liverpool John Moores University has won! Good on yer girl! :celb (23):
Her case has just been featured on BBC News 24...and Elizabeth stated her case. Good stuff aye :)
Woman wins home demolition battle
Sep 27 2006
A grandmother has claimed a "bittersweet" victory in a High Court battle to save her Victorian terraced house from demolition under an urban regeneration scheme affecting hundreds of homes.
Human rights lawyers said the ruling won by Elizabeth Pascoe, 60, was a test case which would help other people across the country who face losing their homes under the Government's controversial Pathfinder initiative.
A Government spokesman disputed the claim, saying the case had nothing to do with the Pathfinder scheme, designed to regenerate inner city areas in the Midlands and the North of England, even though the judge hearing the case said that it did.
Ms Pascoe, of Adderley Street, Liverpool, challenged a compulsory purchase order (CPO) which sanctioned the acquisition and demolition of 500 homes in Liverpool's Edge Lane West area to make way for a new road into the city centre and new housing.
Mr Justice Forbes, sitting at the High Court in London, ruled that the order was flawed.
The judge said the legal challenge marked the first time the Urban Regeneration Agency, operating under the name "English Partnerships", had used its new statutory powers to acquire properties in a Pathfinder area.
He also ruled the CPO was an unjustified interference with Ms Pascoe's right to private and family life under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights since it deprived her of her home.
Ms Pascoe later said of her victory: "This is a pyrrhic victory for me. It is bittersweet because much of my community has already been destroyed as a result of the initiative."
She added: "I am very pleased but nervous about the longer term effects. They could just leave us to rot."
A spokesman for the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) strongly insisted to the press and media that the Edge Lane CPO was for a road widening and regeneration scheme that was not part of the Pathfinder programmes.
Source: icLiverpool
'This is a pyrrhic victory for me. It is bittersweet because much of my community has already been destroyed as a result of this initiative.' -- Elizabeth Pascoe
Pathfinder is a New Labour/John Prescott pet project. In Liverpool and across the north of England, tens of thousands of homes are being destroyed in the name of urban regeneration.
In Liverpool, swathes of Victorian housing is being destroyed. It would cost far less to renovate the existing housing, than new build, and would provide better quality housing, but what it would not provide is development opportunities for developers. And that is what Pathfinder is all about, development opportunities for developers and helping housing associations to rapidly expand.
In Liverpool, home owners are being offered paltry sums for their homes. If they refuse, they are served Compulsory Purchase Orders and their homes seized. If they play ball, they are offered a housing association home as they are no longer in a position to get back on the property ladder. Private tenants are being dumped on sink estates, if they refuse what they are offered, they are deemed homeless.
Local Labour MP Jane Kennedy described the plan as "social cleansing" at the public inquiry that approved the plans.
Elisabeth Pascoe has today won a victory in the High Court in London. She challenged the Compulsory Purchase of her home, claiming that it violated her Human Rights. The Judge found in her favour. Elisabeth Pascoe has described her victory as 'bitter sweet' as many of her neighbours have already been forced out of their homes.
Community activists have voiced concern at the involvement of criminal families. A nod and a wink, at best a blind eye, is turned to their activities. Criminal families are moved in to soften up the community, their relatives sit on the boards of pro-Pathfinder agencies. No structures are in place to address these issues.
In being prepared to not only speak out, but mount a legal challenge, Elisabeth Pascoe has shown herself to be a very brave lady. Her house has been broken into in the early hours of the morning, for her to be held at knife point, her car has been repeatedly trashed, a video of her car being trashed by local criminals was conveniently 'lost' by the local police (the local police receive funding from pro-Pathfinder agencies). Stress forced Elisabeth Pascoe to give up her Doctoral studies.
Local campaigner and documentary filmmaker Mike Lane who has fought hard against Pathfinder and the corrupt local council has received death threats, had his car fire-bombed and been forced to move house for fear of his life.
More...
She was on TV this morning - still unsure how I feel about this victory. Whilst all her neighbours have moved, do builders now build around her house and leave it intact?
It seems such a small part of Edge Lane.
Lets not forget that this decision only effects western Edge Lane, so the rest of the project is still continuing as normal. I am completely for this project and believe that this decision has pointlesly delayed things. Some people have said that the houses should be refurbished and sold on, this is never going to happen! The fact is, these houses would cost too much to repair and even if they where repaired, no-one would want to live in them because they are situated on a severely congested section of edge lane that bottlenecks from a dual carriageway to a single carriageway. This congestion is getting worse and by 2008 it will be at a virtual stand still. The houses need to go so the road can be widened to stop the congestion, but this isn't just a scheme to widen a road, the road and the whole surrounding area will be completely transformed. If it was just a road widening scheme, then why have they bothered with the rest of edge lane which is not going to be widened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev
People need to move on and accept that this is what this area needs and if it doesn't go ahead, it will remain in this condition for many more years! I am truly ashamed at the fact that hundreds of visitors drive past this slum every day, what does this say about our city not just to visitors, but to the people of Liverpool? People are complaining that there isn't enough investment outside of the city centre and as soon as a project outside the city centre is announced, like this one, it is criticised!! Most people are for this project, it's just a shame that a selfish, narrow minded few have to spoil it for everyone else! I am beginning to lose faith in this city and its people.:disgust:
If the developers hadn't treated the community with complete and utter contempt then this probably wouldn't have happened. :disgust:
They actually treated the 'community' very well and fully consulted them on the plans. It's just that some of them didn't want to know and where unwilling to listen from the very beginning without even looking at the plans. The word 'community' is used too much on this issue. Firstly there hasn't been a community around there for about 2 decades. Ever since I was born, the area has been derelict with the population falling rapidly over the years with no influence from any organisations, secondly, if there was a real community there, alot more people would have refused to leave and would have stayed to save their community. The fact is most people who lived there where waiting for their chance to leave, this project gave them that opportunity. Finally, it is the people who make a community not the area and if this minority of people who won't leave had agreed to the plans from the beggining, the entire 'community' could have been moved around the same time and then moved back in the area after it was complete. They are responsibe for breaking up what was left of the community, not LLDC or their partners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
Sorry, I have attended many of the meetings over the last 5 years regarding the regeneration in the Kensington area. The lack of proper consultation and provision of information has been appalling. 5 years down the line we still haven't got a clue about what is happening with the rest of the Holt Rd/Cameron St area. And how on earth is anybody supposed to move back into an area if the new property is going to cost £50,000 or £60,000 more than they were given for their old property. Some of the initial offers where derisory e.g £38,000 for a property independently valued at £59,000 etc, etc. You don't even get enough to buy an equivalent property elsewhere. Anybody over 50 who can't get another mortgage is back to renting or homeless. And I won't even mention some of the intimidation of residents that has taken place. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Howie
A Kensington homeowner
The Holt road scheme etc is not part of the edge lane project. This is something that has been falsely portraid in the news over the past couple of days. The edge lane project and the pathfinder initiative are completely seperate schemes that have nothing to do with eachother and are ran by completely different organisations. Edge Lane project is by LLDC and English Partnerships, Pathfinder is Govt lead. Putting all this aside, do you think that the EDGE LANE PROJECT should go ahead? (Not including Pathfinder)Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
I do understand peoples concerns, but surely you and others can see the long term benefits of this project for the area and Liverpool as a whole. Finally, alot of the houses are only worth 65,000 because of the state of the area and the formentioned congested road. As I understand it, LLDC offered the homeowners the money plus the option of a new house in the new development for nothing, or a significantly reduced price because they already live there.
P.S I have family who live just off edge lane who can't wait for this project to go ahead.
I have commented on this previously on the Edge Lane Development thread here and earlier on this thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by AK1
Ironically Edge Lane is not getting significantly widened and with the collapse of the Hall Lane bypass scheme I doubt it is going to do a great deal to alleviate congestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
The essential point though is the treatment of the residents of the area. None of this regeneration has been about improving the area for the existing residents, but rather about displacing them and replacing them with a new community, ('social-cleansing' I think it has been referred to as). Pressures have been exerted on both tenants and homeowners to leave the area, probably never to return.
You are also incorrect in the assertion that homeowners were offered a new house for nothing. There has never been a 'home-for-a-home' scheme on offer. To my knowledge the best offer made was a loan of up to £25K to help bridge the gap between the cost of an existing property and it's replacement to be paid back either when the occupant left the new property or died. So that, for example, if you received £75,000 for your house and spent £100,000 on the replacement you would 3/4 own it and when you moved on and sold it for £200,000 you would repay a debt of £50,000. The only 'home-for-a-home' scheme I know of in this city was in Granby. I wouldn't actually expect this. I do think, however, that it is not unreasonable that people should expect to be paid the price of an equivalent property elsewhere because it is the regeneration activities themselves that have artificially brought down the 'market value' of the properties of the area (and there are people who say this has been deliberately engineered to keep down the price of the compulsary purchase).
I just wonder how you would feel if somebody suggested disrupting your life by demolishing your home at great financial cost to yourself - even if it could be portrayed as being for the greater good.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK1
PS. I know Liz Pascoe personally. She is a brave woman who despite being crippled with arthritis recently gained an honours degree and went on to commence PhD research which she had to abandon due to the stress of the situation she found herself in. She has also always stood up to the yobs who have moved into the area (often placing herself at personal risk). I wish her well and hope that the future holds something better for her, though that will be dependent upon what LLDC decide to do with the surrounding properties that have already been vacated and boarded-up.