Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Good for you Max..Keep blowing yer own trumpet Lad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Good for you Max..Keep blowing yer own trumpet Lad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenface
Have you seen the Bottom of London Rd lately goldenface..
Its Scum like this that people dont want in this laughing stock of a dumping ground..Sorry..Country..
I Imagine you and others on here haven't got a clue what Im talking about have you..
Just go down London Rd at 10 PM any night and you will see what I mean..
And its not the Hard working Poles I am on about either..
And as for people not wanting to Live in the City Centre...I do..I was brought up in the Scotland Road area and would quite like to stay here.
Not enough green space..Whats that...Something you stuck in a Green shield stamp book.
We had none of that green space thingy either and we grew up in a very happy enviroment I can tell yer..
My Mam felt the same way too but sadly the Council had other plans and moved Her and all the other residents out of a perfectly happy Enviroment to make the Block on St Anne St into Luxury apartments ..
These local people only lived in this area all their lives and their parents and grandparents before them as well..
Walk through this block now at any given time and it is like a ghost town..
No Kids playing out..A once friendly enviroment gone to make way for money people
Strangers who have lived there for the last 10 years or whatever and dont bother with the local community..
Is this how this City is going to End up...Luxury and Security gates everywhere at the expense of Local Community...I really hope not.
Ladies of the night you referring to Gerard? Or the heroin addicts and alkies that hang round TJs and the bus stops?
Neither Shapers,Quote:
Originally Posted by Shapers
Like a few others on here including Gerard. We were brought up in the same tenement square (I think you might just know which one by now), you'll never get those times again, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way with 'Town' on your doorstep. Council policy then was to move everyone out, funny how it's gone full circle but sad for those disposed at the time. City centre living is back in vogue, what price our tenement block now, only its 170K apartments now instead of flats left to become run down.
Evenin' mucker..
Alright Gerard. Did those cannons rattle your windows yesterday then?
@Gerard
I'm sorry mate but I don't think I have got a clue what you mean, you might have to elaborate on that one.
The times I go London Road is to go to TJ's (bargains!) or to go the pictures, I like London Rd.
There is still family housing in the city centre, very nice little oasis it is too. Have you seen the little community at the bottom of Park lane, behind Duke Street?
You couldn't get more central than that really, at the far end of Paradise Street.
Though, I think that the issue your bringing up is not one thats belongs to Liverpool alone.
If you look at the history of Liverpool, even back when Liverpool had its influx of Irish immigrants after the potato famine the city centre consisted of nothing but the horrendous courts and back to back housing, people uprooted and moved out to the great merchant houses of Falkner Square, Abercormby Square, Canning Area, Woolton Village etc and I don't think they ever moved back - until now.
Its fine to hark back to the good ol' days of the Bullring, Myrtle Gardens, Caryl Gardens, King, Essex, Sussex Gardens East and West, Windsor Gardens to name but a few, but to be honest mate, they weren't ideal places to live.
I remember the last days of Myrtle House and Myrtle Gardens, there are pictures of it on this very forum, it was horrible mate, really really horrible. Nothing to do with the people who lived there for years, but times just change.
That concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other? Pissy smelly staircases and lifts? If the lifts ever worked they probably had no lights in!
What kind of place is that to live in? Really?
If you could speak to anyone who lived in the 1880's in the old Court Housing, off Park Lane and Scotty Road and the tenements behind William Brown Street, then I bet you any money they would say the exact same thing, 'oh the community was great', 'oh our front door was always open', kids playing out all day, but times change don't they?
I am also trying to work this one out. That part of town always looks deserted to me at that time unless a show has just finished at the Empire. It's like a cliffhanger - I'm waiting for the next installment. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
The history of the city centre has a theme of one community displacing another. We're clearly in the middle of another change. I'm hoping for a bit more integration this time around rather than one community moving out as another one moves in.
"That concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other? Pissy smelly staircases and lifts? If the lifts ever worked they probably had no lights in! "
It worked perfectly well mate in Great Richmond St..and all the lights worked.
I didnt think you had a clue either what was going on on London Rd..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
And Im waiting Jericho to see if anyone knows whats going on on London Rd.
Getting good innit :unibrow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
How about giving us a clue then?
Well I'm completely lost now.
What is going on in London Rd that we do or don't know about? :)
Is the Bearded Lady back again? Whisky Mary? Springheel Jack?
I think it will always be in a constant state of flux. I don't think it belongs to anyone in particular. If it wasn't for students and tourists it wouldn't be half as busy I reckon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
In the evenings in the city centre, say around 8-9pm mid-week, its quite dead - in a nice way. Going for a walk around town when the shops are closed can be really nice.
Not just yet..lets see if anyone knows first Eh ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
I don't know, but it's really boring me. Can't be that significant if hardly anybody knows about it.
Im off out for a nice little walk now and to take a few snaps..
Lovely day isnt it...Lol... Byyyee---eeeee...
@snappel
I suppose we will have to work out for ourselves what the scum is at the bottom of London Road.
He can't mean the people who go the Empire Theatre can he? The people who drink in the Lord Duncan? The people in the kebab shop?
I'm flummoxed!
But I'll tell you what, I'm not going down again after 10pm. I don't know what to expect now.
I don't know what's going on in London road so i'm not going to go there (I don't mean i'm not going to go to London road, I just mean i'm not in a position to comment on what's supposed to be going on there)
However, Goldenface. Having lived in Gerard Crescent and Gerard Gardens and with the film Gardens of Stone having now been shown to around 2000 people + I do feel in a position to comment on the old tenement blocks.
Firstly, council policy in the 1980s was to sell of prime real estate so they purposely let these blocks become run down, look at Minster Court and the Bullring now. A flat in Wavertree Gardens (now Abbeygate apartments) was sold in the Daily post for K160 after two weeks advertising . JMU were sold lots of Gerard Gardens land, Hunter Street was widened to 12 lanes of traffic - the road becoming ever more important than people - countless on the Scottie Press site will tell you that they were cannon fodder and moved out to Kirkby, Skem, Speke, Norris Green etc -splitting up communities in the process.
You say two things which strike a nerve.
(1) 'That Concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other'
Can you explain then why billions has been spent collectively on view 146, Freedom Heights, new apartments at Beetham Tower, Leeds Street, London Road, Marybone, Victoria Halls, Hatton Garden to name but a minute few - I can think of 30 more that roll off the tongue down Duke St, Colquitt st way and all the high rise in Sefton Pk, China town tennies etc.....
(2) 'But times change don't they'
Yes they do. Do you think they've changed for the better when it comes to communities? I don't and I know from the reaction at the screenings mentioned above attended by a whole cross section of people from all ages and walks of life that is the general concensus.
I think this topic has been done in part before.
See the tenement thread under housing.
Ah, I see!
So the council run them down on purpose? I often wondered why they became the way they did. They were pictures of neglect in the 80's but I never knew why - I just assumed the council couldn't be bothered with them anymore.
When I said 'that concept', I meant that type of municipal housing. Loads of them were demolished too weren't they? Like Windsor Gardens at the top of Falkner Street, that was knocked down and just an open field was left in its place for years.
I'll have a good read of the thread. Thanks matey!
Some interesting points there Ged, thanks.
Many years ago I lived at Minster Court for a short while looking after someone's flat, and I have to say it was very pleasant, but then again it was mainly full of students, although there were some families there.
Running them down on purpose might not have been the correct phrasology, but perhaps neglect of their duties regarding maintenance might have been better.
It's great that new housing was built but sometimes only 150 houses were built to house what were 400 flats. This is why the 1969 film 'Us and them' (Us being the residents and Them being the council) was made, the 1978 film by the Vauxhall Neighbourhood council called 'Homes not Roads' too and of course the award winning Eldonians group was formed out of a community battling against the council who wanted to split up the Burlington Street tenement residents.
It was not just Windsor Gardens whose site lay dormant for many years. The Four Squares off Soho Street is still a lumpy grasses site fit for no-one after nearly two decades.
Some of the older residents didn't want front and back gardens to manage and the beauty of the old landings was that people had to pass your front door and this would lead to people just standing there, leaning over, jangling whilst watching the world go by. Full of mod cons but not full of memories, more a feeling of isolation for many, especially those who lost old friends to far outlying districts.
It seems like its a never-ending story really doesn't it.
Even now we have communities battling to stay together, like the tenants of the Welsh Streets off Windsor Street.
I guess what it boils down to is people don't like being shoved around for one reason or another, all in the name of progress.
In the 1960s, the original proposals for the 2nd Mersey Road crossing were mooted to be in the south of the city. However, fighting residents in the leafy suburbs with CPO's was cast aside when there was easy fodder half a mile from the Queensway tunnel, known as council tenement residents.
If you see the swathes of approach roads and how much housing was affected for the Kingway tunnel in relation to the discreet Queensway entrance (purposely picked at that location because it would cause the minimum of disruption) you would knw what the protest films are getting at.
ALso all those ill placed walkovers around Byrom street that were obstacles and hurdles for children and the elderly.
The city centre did once have a thriving and stable community, it wasn't always students and tourists, in fact in the 1970s, the councils idea of attracting tourism was to demolish the Cavern.
Thanks for explaining what went on Ged. It makes you stop and think doesn't it. Do you mean to say that there were plans for the tunnel in the south of the city ?? I never knew this.
According to the research I did at the records office, it just says the South of the city but doesn't say where specifically. Of course another hindrance with that is that the Mersey widens at this point. Brian Jacques who narrates in the Homes not Roads protest film indicates that the South end would have been the practical solution. In the opinion of many in the shipping world, Seaforth could have been a great alternative for artics leaving the newer docks as they now have to go up Church road which has damaged house foundations, before heading townwards via Scotland Road towards Kingsway (they are banned from Queensway)
JMU Professor Lewis Lesley who was interviewed for Homes not Roads in 1978 was sought out by Paul, maker of Gardens of Stones and attended our last screening and hailed it as relevant as ever. He announced back then that the inner ring road proposals for the city centre area were a disaster and just last year it was proposed that the Churchill Way flyovers may well be coming down but don't know the latest on this since the tram fiasco.
"He can't mean the people who go the Empire Theatre can he? The people who drink in the Lord Duncan? The people in the kebab shop?"
"He" has got me flummoxed as well..
Wheres the Lord Duncan by the way.
I think I meant the Admiral Duncan Gerard, the pub facing the Odeon.
Do you mean our local, The Lord Warden?
He must be a relative of yours, Gerard, if his name was Admiral Duncan Gerard. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenface
Excuse the levity, mates. :)
Chris
I think you mean this place goldenface.
The Lord Warden...
My local and full of my friends..
The Chap behind the Bar is My uncles brother..All one big happy family..
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...g/L1060105.jpg
And the Chap on the left is my mate as well..
He is the Manager of the Empire theatre and this shows the Empire Stage..
So its neither of them Im afraid.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...g/L1000928.jpg
Nice one Rrrrr Chris Lad. :handclap:Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
THATS the one I'm thinking of. :lol:
Gerard, I can see my old next door neighbour Dom but where's Bobo?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Took that photo about 3 weeks ago Ged when I went in for a pint with me Dads brother John.
Sneaked in and had a little blimp first :ninja: to make sure Bobo had gone home.. :ninja:
This one's for you goldenface..
TJ'S....SALE NOW ON....SALE NOW ON....SALE NOW ON....
Hurry up girl !!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...g/L1060315.jpg
All that gear above the owl girl doesn't look too safe does it !!
I know from personal experiance of the Gerard Gardens area that it was a case of 'town planners' deciding what THEY thought was good for the community. e.g. 'wouldn't it be great to get those people out of the slums tenements and into new housing'. On paper it looks a very good proposition, but the residents were never canvessed for THEIR opinion. The vacant land facing Gerard Gardens was ideal for new family homes, but that didn't stop the council ulitising some of the existing housing stock for many residents (couples/ widows etc) who wanted to stay in the flats. The majority of the new properties were build on land outside of the Gerard Gardens footprint, which now accommodates a very small number of new houses in Gerard Street.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenface
The development could have been a 'win win' with the right mix of old and new housing. On a car, would you replace your whole exhaust if just the back box is gone??
Council tennents were always treated like cannon fodder, peppered across the four corners of Liverpool (and beyond) in the name of progress.
How could a copy of "Homes Not Roads" be acquired?