Yates Street - L8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterways

That is a lot earth that has to be got and carted to the site, to level the ground because of a rocky outcrop. They may have used earth in the expansion of the mill next to the streets. Usually they just built the houses up a hill, stepping them as they went up. The road would follow the contour.

---

Looking at the map, it looks like a natural plateau, with a steep bank [to Yates St. and Beaufort St.] Corn Street was already established on the natural plateau [in 1835] before they even built Yates Street. And at least half of land that was to become Yates Street was on slightly high ground, shared also by Corn St. They sited the mill yard boundary on the very edge of the plateau's natural bank, where it dropped down to the Herculaneum potteries level.

Normally, as you suggest, they would step the houses where there was a gradient, as they have done in other streets in Toxteth. Why not here? IMO, the developer was building Corn St. as well as Yates St. The gradient, looks very steep [and very short] on the map for it to be a practical consideration to step the houses. And I guess that to connect Corn Street to the extended Beaufort Street would have required a substantial amount of excavation to get down to the right level, which would created access problems to the mill site [from Corn Street]. So, I guess in the end they thought terracing was the more efficient option?

The only thing I'm puzzled by is the small terrace on the Corn St. side [that back on to Yates St.] for about half its length?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/a...rculaneum3.jpg
George Codling's engraving of the Herculaneum Potteries ^ c.1806.

The Mill Street Windmill [currently the site behind Corn Street] is shown on the higher fore-ground, on the extreme RH side of this image. The windmill is also highlighted on the image below, in the 'red' boxes.

NML Archive Image.

Analysis of Herculaneum Potteries drawing ^

I have drawn the sight-lines of the artist, and the possible location from where he painted [or drew] the scene from? The Windmill is highlighted on the drawing in 'red' boxes, or a 'red' circle on the map.

The dashed 'blue' line traces the ridge of the higher land [or plateau] shown on the map, and which is evident on the image, as the Potteries appear to be located at a much lower elevation, than the land seen in the fore-ground - from where the scene was painted from.

Also notice the triagular block of workers houses on both the image and map?

NML Archive Image.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/a...xteth_0001.jpg

Image 1 ^ c.1935 LRO. Yates Street, including Corn Street and the mill site behind. Notice the difference in levels between the Gasometer site and the road above [Beaufort Street].

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/a...xteth_0002.jpg

Image 2 ^ c.1950 LRO. The Mill Street Windmill owned by Mrs Scott according to Jonathan Bennison's 1835 map.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazza

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/a...xteth_0001.jpg

Image 1 ^ c.1935 LRO. Yates Street, including Corn Street and the mill site behind. Notice the difference in levels between the Gasometer site and the road above [Beaufort Street].

---

The old Mersey Forge site is shown. Abandoned in 1898, and still not fully occupied to this day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterways

The old Mersey Forge site is shown. Abandoned in 1898, and still not fully occupied to this day.

---

WW, was this originally next to the Potteries, as a 'forge' is indicated on the 1835 map.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazza

WW, was this originally next to the Potteries, as a 'forge' is indicated on the 1835 map.

---

On the picture, to the right of the large gas tank is a stack. That is the gas works. Then to the right again is two stacks with open ground around. That is the Forge. Over Grafton St opposite, again the Forge was there and also between Caryl St and Sefton St. It was a large site. They built the frames of St. Michaels and Everton Church there. They made guns (the largest in the world at one time) and other ironwork for mainly naval use and lots for foreign navies. They were quite advanced with workers library, etc.

The forge stacks were there until the 1960s if I recall.

The area is named 'Oldfield Mount', I presume after William Oldfield Wilson (the mill was later known as Wilson-King). Now 'mount' suggests an area raised from its' surroundings. The sandstone in this area shows itself at various places, dropping down to the river.
I can remember a raised area at the rear of Mill St. (but still on the 'grain estate') but I can only vouch for it post-demolition, when it was an empty of houses.

1906:
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/att...5&d=1219043906

1907 below:
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/att...6&d=1219044076

Very interesting guys. I guess John Cragg's metal for St. Philip's Church, Hardman Street was also manufactured there, as well?

Can anyone tell me where Herculaneum Potteries was located......Harrington Dock, or it's name sake, Herculaneum Dock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazza

Very interesting guys. I guess John Cragg's metal for St. Philip's Church, Hardman Street was also manufactured there, as well?

Can anyone tell me where Herculaneum Potteries was located......Harrington Dock, or it's name sake, Herculaneum Dock?

---

On the Herculaneum Dock. The Hec was build half in the river and rest blasted out of the cliff. The pottery was roughly were the ticky-tacky flats are now.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity...aneum-1907.jpg
The ventilation shaft of the Dingle Tunnel can be seen. The houses bottom right were the Potters houses.

Some of the house built for the chief potters brought in from the Potteries are still there In Grafton St - well the last time I looked they were. They were welcomed by a cheering crowd and brass band.

In 1845 the Forge constructed an unnamed 'huge gun', 13 feet long, for the American frigate 'Princetown'. It fired five mile when tested in Liverpool Bay.

I put this together:
Liverpool - Home of the Skyscraper

Nice one WW. Had a look at the site, excellent. Did you do that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pablo42

Nice one WW. Had a look at the site, excellent. Did you do that?

---

yep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterways

yep.

---

You're a smart bugger on the sly...

Well done.

Thanks WW, I enjoyed going through the skyscraper site, very interesting.

Inspired by those images you posted, I thought I'd try and locate the Pottery, based on the 1835 Jonathan Bennison Map, and the 1906 OS map. Here's the results:

The comparison places the Potteries in the Harrington Dock, and the 'Iron Works' just to the left of it. c.1835.

D.

I always thought it was at the Herc, near to where the Dingle Tunnel portal is, unless it expanded after 1835.