Mann Island/ New Liverpool Museum Area

'Wedges'

pulled at eleventh hour
Oct 25 2006
By Sam Lister Daily Post

Staff

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/ic...C89810DA85.jpg

CONTENTIOUS plans to

build three wedge-shaped apartment blocks near Liverpool's Three Graces were withdrawn just hours before a meeting to decide their fate

yesterday.

Officials in charge of monitoring the World Heritage waterfront handed over their report into the plans late on Monday night, causing

confusion among city planners.

Although the emergency report by architecture experts from Unesco found the scheme was unlikely to affect the city's

heritage title, it recommended the council should be "cautious" about the plans, as well as those for the equally controversial proposed museum.

The

application has now been delayed for two weeks while the council works out the legal

implications.

Story continues...

It looks like they'll still be approved in 2 weeks time though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterways

Not red brick

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What a dim reply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scouserdave

What a dim reply.

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Could be glazed red brick

- that's quite bright (produced from Bedfordshire clay, of course). :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howie

Could be glazed red brick - that's quite bright (produced from Bedfordshire clay, of course).

:rolleyes:

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LOL!:unibrow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howie

Could be glazed red brick - that's quite bright (produced from Bedfordshire clay, of course).

:rolleyes:

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Isn't that the clay used for London yellow brick?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterways

Isn't that the clay used for London

yellow brick?

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The clay from the pits there is used to produce bricks in a wide range of colours from pale pink to yellow.

Pink! :mad:

Looks like they used pink bricks in Canal St. Manchester.:037:

To bring this thread back on topic...

Chamber chief backs Mann Island project

ONE of Liverpool's

most influential business leaders is backing development plans for Mann Island as a "key link" in the vision for the transformation of Liverpool's

waterfront.

David Wade-Smith, chairman of Liverpool's Chamber of Commerce and founding member of the Liverpool Vision board, believes that the £113m

mixed-use development, which is due to be considered by Liverpool City Council's planning committee later this month, will complement plans for the new

Museum of Liverpool and the Pier Head canal link as well as providing a major commercial boost for the wider waterfront.

He said: "Neptune and

Countryside's development on Mann Island is an eloquent statement about Liverpool's future ambition and its commercial resurgence. It is also a vital

component in the big picture vision for the city centre."

Mr Wade-Smith believes the restaurants, shops and exhibition venue proposed at Mann Island

will also be good news for existing waterfront businesses.

"The Mann Island development will create a vibrant new leisure and cultural destination

that will link with the Albert Dock, Kings Waterfront and the new Pier Head. We have fabulous architecture and breathtaking views, but we also need a

critical mass of commercial and cultural activity if we are to create a successful destination.

"I believe the Mann Island site is the most important

development site in the North West with a pivotal location at the heart of our waterfront, and also forming a crucial link between the commercial district

around Old Hall Street and the new retail district offered by Grosvenor and Liverpool One."

Neptune managing director Steve Parry said: "We welcome

the support of David Wade-Smith and other business and regeneration leaders who recognise the importance of this key site."

Source:

The Business Week

How much of the docks is exactly mann Island?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Max

How much of the docks is exactly mann Island?

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It's just that bit between the Port of Liverpool Building and

Canning Dock isn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howie

It's just that bit between the Port of Liverpool Building and Canning Dock isn't it?

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I was actually an island with water

on the Canning Docks side, Georges Docks side and the River/Manchester Dock/Chester Basin side. the other side was the passage from Canning Dock to Georges

Dock, which part of is still there.

Ta, always wondered why it was called island.:037:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shytalk

Ta, always wondered why it was called island.:037:

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It was a man made island. Orginianally before Georges

Dock the river was on two sides.

All the docks are built into the river on wooden piles except Stanley Dock, part of Heculaneum Dock and most of

Wapping Dock. With the building of ships, making docks and houses in the cities and towns they ran out of wood. That is why Lairds started to make iron

hulled ships and cast iron churches were being built: Everton and St. Micheals - prefabbed churches were exported via the Cast Iron shore. Canada Dock was

built to import timber from Canada to plug the timber shortage gap. The dock was built away from the rest of the docks in case of fire. Later docks were

built between Canada and Clarence Dock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterways

It was a man

made island. Orginianally before Georges Dock the river was on two sides.

All the docks are built into the river on wooden piles except Stanley Dock,

part of Heculaneum Dock and most of Wapping Dock. With the building of ships, making docks and houses in the cities and towns they ran out of wood. That is

why Lairds started to make iron hulled ships and cast iron churches were being built: Everton and St. Micheals - prefabbed churches were exported via the

Cast Iron shore. Canada Dock was built to import timber from Canada to plug the timber shortage gap. The dock was built away from the rest of the docks in

case of fire. Later docks were built between Canada and Clarence Dock.

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Everton had more than one church and there were more than one St Micks. I

think you're referring to St George's Church, Everton, Heyworth Street and St Michael's, Church Road, Aigburth.

By the way, Oriel Chambers was a

combination of cast iron and glass. On its completion, it was described as a "great abortion" and an "agglomeration of plate glass bubbles." Sound

familiar?:unibrow:

A CAR showroom, built in the 1930s, should be listed to prevent it from being

demolished as part of the Mann Island redevelopment, a pressure group said last night.

The influential Twentieth Century Society wants the neoclassical

building saved and brought back to use.

Currently, it will have to be flattened to allow a mixed use development by Neptune and Countryside

Developments, consisting of three wedge-shaped blocks faced with black granite.

The garage was designed to blend with the Mersey Tunnel Ventilation

Tower, designed by celebrated Liverpool architect Herbert Rowse, who was also responsible for India Buildings, Martins Bank Building and the Philharmonic

Hall.

In a plea to Liverpool City Council, society director, Catherine Croft, says: "In order to clear the Mann Island site, a neoclassical former

garage will have to be demolished. This is a good example of a scarce building type that we feel should be listed and ideally retained."

Ms Croft adds

in a report to the planning department that the government's own conservation agency had praised the building.

She said: "We note that the English

Heritage Inspector's report concluded 'The building appears to be well maintained and capable of ongoing beneficial use'."

The planning committee

meets next week to consider whether the go-ahead should be given to the three wedges with planning officers recommending approval.

The Twentieth Century

Society has told the council it wishes to object.

Ms Croft states: "We feel that the proposals would have a major impact on an outstanding group of 20th

century listed buildings.

"Unesco's designation of the site specifically requests the UK to ensure that the setting of the Liverpool maritime

waterfront is not compromised by unsympathetic high rise development adjacent to the site."

The society's North West chairman Aidan Turner-Bishop also

voiced concerns.

Last night he said: "Liverpool's Pier Head site is so precious in an international context that it's very worrying it is being

treated as it is, by the council and developers.

"There needs to be a proper site management plan, preferably independently monitored.

"To approve

any developments which contravene a decision by Unesco would be premature and ill-considered."

City officials insist the Neptune scheme, as well as the

proposedMuseum of Liverpool scheme by National Museums Liverpool, will not compromise or threaten the coveted World Heritage Status.



larryneild@dailypost.co.uk

Its only a matter of time before the 22nd century association in Liverpool want a dog turd listing.
Ridiculous!!!

A £120m plan to transform Mann Island alongside Liverpool’s World Heritage

waterfront was approved by councillors this afternoon.

Despite protests by conservationists the scheme won the go-ahead on the casting vote of the

planning committee chairman Cllr Lady Doreen Jones.

Committee member Peter Allen urged the committee to defer a final decision until a report is produced

in mid-December by a World Heritage Site mission from UNESCO but this suggestion was rejected. The committee was divided 4-4, which brought into play the

casting vote.

Developers Neptune and Countryside Properties now plan to start work on April on three granite-faced buildings that will provide

apartments, offices, leisure facilities and an under-cover wintergarden area.

Neptune managing director Steve Parry said the site opposite the Port of

Liverpool Building at the Pier Head was one of the most important in the North West.

Opponents protested that some of the world-famous views of

Liverpool’s Three Graces will be lost forever as a result of the decision.

The committee was told that the project posed no threat to Liverpool’s status

as a World Heritage Site.

A mission from UNESCO was in Liverpool last month to investigate claims that the coveted status could be at risk from

insensitive development schemes.

TAKE a virtual tour of the Mann Island

proposals here (© Uniform Communications Ltd)



Source.....

what a crap decision.

these are going to be windswept pig ugly lumps.

The new building looks

like a monsterosity to me. Little better than the defeated Fourth Grace proposal. :disgust:

Chris

At first I hated this proposal, but over the past few months I have begun to like these

buildings. The revised design looks better than the original and alot of time and effort seems to have gone into it. I think that this project will be one of

those that is controvercial, but when it is complete I think people will actually like it and it will probably become one of the most liked buildings in the

city.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

The

new building looks like a monsterosity to me. Little better than the defeated Fourth Grace proposal. :disgust:

Chris

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Some angles

work better than others I reckon I'm hoping all the doubters will change their opinions when it's built.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

The new building looks like a monsterosity to me. Little better than the defeated Fourth Grace proposal.

:disgust:

Chris

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City waterfront plan to go ahead

A £120m development on the site of Liverpool's doomed Fourth Grace,

has been given the go-ahead.
The waterfront scheme consists of three wedge-shaped buildings on Mann Island, built next to the controversial X-shaped

Museum of Liverpool.

The city's planning committee gave its approval on Tuesday.

The decision had been delayed after concerns were raised

about whether it would affect the waterfront's World Heritage Status.

Inspectors visited the city, and the council said their preliminary report was

"positive". A more extensive report is not expected until next year.

Opponents claim the buildings, two of which will be residential, could harm the

area's architectural heritage.


Will Alsop's controversial design was eventually rejected

Among the groups opposing the scheme include

the Liverpool Preservation Trust, The Victorian Society and Albert Dock Residents' Association.

The three granite-clad buildings would house more

than 300 apartments in two buildings, as well as offices, shops, bars and restaurants.

Developers Neptune and Countryside Properties said the

buildings would frame views of the city's Three Graces - the Port of Liverpool Building, Cunard Building and the Liver Building.

Steve Parry,

managing director of Neptune Developments, said: "We are delighted to be finally moving ahead with this scheme.

'Positive support'

"This is

a not only one of the key development sites for Liverpool but one of the most important in the whole of the North West.

"The overwhelmingly positive

support we received is reflected in the decision of planning committee."

The plans were backed by English Heritage, Liverpool Vision and the North

West Development Agency.

Plans for a Fourth Grace - Will Alsop's "The Cloud" - were dropped in 2004, after they were deemed "unworkable".

@Paul, already posted on page 2, snap!

:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev

@Paul, already posted on page 2, snap! :p

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It just shows you I've got my finger on the pulse,erm

eventually.:rolleyes:

An exhibition of the planned multi-million pound re-development of Liverpool's waterfront has been put on show at the city's Maritime Museum.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...nn_devp203.jpg

Visitors can experience a computer animated 'fly through' of the Mann Island changes, said developers Neptune and Countryside Properties.

Building work is to start early in the new year.

The exhibition is open until 21 December and visitors can leave their comments in a special book.

'Under-used asset'

Plans for the Mann Island site include a new £65m Museum of Liverpool, an extension to the Leeds Liverpool Canal, a £120m mixed-use development as well as improvements to areas for public use.

The new waterfront scheme is expected to create over 800 new jobs, as well as increase the number of visitors, said the developers.

"We're beginning to see a very positive change on the city's waterfront," said Jim Gill, Liverpool Vision's Chief Executive.

"Although the Pier Head and Mann Island present the city's image to the rest of the world, the area is one of the city's most under-used assets.

"The transformation of Mann Island is key to our ambitions of making the City Centre Waterfront a visitor destination of international significance," he added.

source.......

THE Merseyside Civic Society has urged local government minister Ruth Kelly to intervene in plans for a multi-million pound development close to Liverpool Pier Head. more

I love the new museum building but think the apartment bocks are so out of place and ordinary. The museum is diferent and an individual iconic design that once built will be appreciated more. The apartments are such a waste of the site. The only good thing about them is the use of contrasting materials in relation to the '3 graces'. People who ask for buildings using the same materials don't seem to get the fact that this would actually detract from the 4 buildings by blending them in with obviously boring new pastiche rubbish. Modern iconic buildings are required for sites like this to make both the new build and the old stand on their own merits.. The housing trust building on commutation row is a perfect example of a boring post modern/pastiche piece of boring building that is a waste of a prime city site. You do not get people in Berlin or Barcelon asking for pastiche buildings to fit in with surroundings and the cities are the better for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by christy

I love the new museum building but think the apartment bocks are so out of place and ordinary. The museum is diferent and an individual iconic design that once built will be appreciated more. The apartments are such a waste of the site. The only good thing about them is the use of contrasting materials in relation to the '3 graces'. People who ask for buildings using the same materials don't seem to get the fact that this would actually detract from the 4 buildings by blending them in with obviously boring new pastiche rubbish. Modern iconic buildings are required for sites like this to make both the new build and the old stand on their own merits.. The housing trust building on commutation row is a perfect example of a boring post modern/pastiche piece of boring building that is a waste of a prime city site. You do not get people in Berlin or Barcelon asking for pastiche buildings to fit in with surroundings and the cities are the better for it.

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I posted below on another thread - relevant here. The museum can stay, but why not excavate the Dock and basin or even just one of them, as the canal runs through them anyway. Too easy is isn't it. The Pier Head is a dead space. A poor public space. The water will add value and history.

Excavating Manchester Dock & Chester Basin?

The Canal Link actually runs through the in-filled Chester Basin and Manchester Dock, north of the Canning Graving Docks. The basin and dock are still there underground complete with granite quays. Common sense would dictate fully excavating the basin and if possible the adjacent Manchester Dock too, which had a river lock. The location of the lock position is visible from the river wall at the Canning Dock. Archaeologists are to dig out much of the dock and basin. Leaving the water spaces uncovered and refilled with water would be the most appropriate action. These docks are over 220 years old. The canal could run right through Chester Basin giving berths for canal boats and adding to the charm of the Pier Head.

Any sensible developer would want to reinstate these small historic water spaces, as they would add value to their projects and gain public acceptability.

Below: Manchester Dock and Chester Basin are to the south west of the Dock Board Office at the Pier Head.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity...rHead-1910.jpg

http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk
Go to: Canal Link page

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waterways

Excavating Manchester Dock & Chester Basin?

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I totally agree. Every day I get more fed-up with these 'designer apartment' blocks everywhere. We should make best use of the riverside areas and not hide/destroy unique and historic features.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snappel

I totally agree. Every day I get more fed-up with these 'designer apartment' blocks everywhere. We should make best use of the riverside areas and not hide/destroy unique and historic features.

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WaterWays, what have you done to us all? :shock: :celb (23): I've been reading up on the Old Dock now filled in beneath the Paradise Street developemnt area and am gutted what we have lost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev

WaterWays, what have you done to us all? :shock: :celb (23): I've been reading up on the Old Dock now filled in beneath the Paradise Street developemnt area and am gutted what we have lost.

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Parts of the Old Dock were dug up recently. The quays are still there. The quays were poor as they were made of local sandstone and brick. One reason for filling in was the poor state of the quays as they were around 100 years old at the time.

Only a park was over it. It could have been dug out and re-instated and put to original condition complete with locks and bridge. Take away the Dock Rd and connect the Old Docks back onto the Dock network and what an environment. Too easy isn't it?
Have a look. Interesting:
http://www.oau-oxford.com/html_pages/maritime_trade.htm

http://www.oau-oxford.com/images/industrial/john.jpg

I agree mate, would be ridiculous to build a museum of LIVERPOOL LIFE and ignore the history underneath or around it. If they are excavating the dock anyway, it surely makes sense to do as you say and use it as a feature and part of the new canal link which will only enhance the new building.
As for the old dock on the site of the pool, I raed that part of it is being used as a water feature in the park and some of the excavated walls/queys will be left visable and form a display with interactive info etc explaining the history of the site,- pool-dock-customs house etc.

The shanty 'blow the man down' comes from the are of the original dock doesn't it? 'As I was walking down Paradise street........' The warehouses behind Paradise street and around Lydia Anne street etc are all from this era I seem to remember. Hopefully Grosvenor have retsored the ones they said they would behind the old radio merseyside building, Shame they demolished what was one of the oldest houses in the area facing Gostins building next to the old Academy/Planet x. Still had the early Georgian box sash windows as well.

Looks to me like the asphalt has been scraped away to reveal the old quays.

I agree that the docks and quays where possible should be reinstated, there's enough land and brownfield sites crying out for apartment blocks and the like (eg. all that wasteland on Tithebarn st next to the Railway pub looks an eyesore)

The black granite should be changed to white to fit in with the rest of the area as they just look like Steers house has been reshaped and shifted over there. I don't mind the quirky shapes actually, just that the height doesn't obscure the Port of Liverpool building.

I can't wait for the new museum of Liverpool life and hope that they don't let us down with the floorspace and contents.

Why does everyone get so misty eyed over old docks?
All they are are large holes surrounded by retaining walls to keep in water.
I think too many people look back with rose tinted spectacles at the days of shipping - I worked on the docks for years and it was hard graft in a filthy environment for bog standard wages.
They won't find any dinosaurs buried there or anything else of real interest - just the detritus of an dirty industry.

Maybe so but the docks are still a lasting reminder of Liverpool's heyday.

Maybe I should get Waterways off the ban list to explain about the docks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev

Maybe I should get Waterways off the ban list to explain about the docks.

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Yes!

:celb (23):