Howsabout a nice big park,with water features for the docks wasteland we certainlly don`t want any more empty flats.
Howsabout a nice big park,with water features for the docks wasteland we certainlly don`t want any more empty flats.
I think raising the question of why they don't build like that anymore is important. 10 years ago I used to meet up with a friend, Tommy (plasterer by trade). At the time there was renovation work being carried out in the Hope Street area. He was working out of town when he got transferred to the building in question. The engineer in charge of the site had gone ballistic over the low standards of workmanship. Plasterboards and light skimming of walls were all the men had been trained for, speed being the essence for their employer! Tommy was brought back with an apprentice to do the work properly.
Why are tradesmen not being trained to the standards that we once had? It's a throwaway world where money rules everything, I'm afraid.
The pyramids function was to keep out looters, at which they failed. I don't think they could ever be called beautiful.
The Liver buildings, I'm sure most people's view would be beautiful.
:PDT11 Ged.
Best wishes,
Chas:PDT11
Cheers Joe and Chas.
A well planned park maybe could have been an option if LCC owned the land but when the MDHC cashed in on it to Peel for a return, they too will be looking to profit from it.
The Pyramids are a WHS though Chas, you know, the all important UNESCO World Heritage Site and they are beautiful and meaningful to many. When big insurance companies were making an architectural statements such as the Royal Liver, Pearl Assurance etc, no expense was spared for their HQ's. Walker, Picton, William Brown and others were benefactors to the city and money was raised and given - that doesn't happen anymore. The next best thing though, since our councils are skint is that the likes of Grosvenor and Peel look to Liverpool with its unique sites ripe for redevelopment after years of nothing, I mean they're not looking at other cities who would no doubt snap their hands off.
How disappointing it would be to return to the central docks site as a ghost in 2050 to see what is still there now. A stark possibility.
But as far as speed of building goes, the Liver Building was built in a mere 3 years. They weren't slow craftsmen working back then....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
The four times higher Empire State Building was completed in 18 months.
How long did the much lower new museum take?
[QUOTE=Ged;355611]That's true but they just don't built like that anymore anywhere. The pyramids have lasted quite a bit too ;)
---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------
Never finished either, all that sand delivered, river changed course and the cement factory couldn't find enough transport for the order..... now if they'd had a decent planning committee who knows what wonderful architecture they might have left for us.
Thanks for your reply, Ged. My views are not clouded by UNESCO WHS or the Liverpool Preservation Society ( in fact I'd never heard of LPS till it was named by yourself). I can't give my opinion on the LPS man until I know a bit more about him.
I didn't need UNESCO to tell me this city is beautiful, it was already a wondrous place to me. Can't say I'm not glad they've intervened in Peel's proposals though.
You've missed the point of my previous post so I'll make it clear.
Tommy the plasterer
The quality of workmanship in most modern buildings in Merseyside is sub standard. As long as workmen can pass their Level X and conform to a timetable the agency gets the job. Slapdash construction with maximum profit the only motivation.
Merseyside deserves better. Merseysiders have had to suffer the town planning and architectural disasters in the past. The new museum and black apartments squat like vultures in the city. If PEEL gets the go ahead there’ll be a new waterfront trio, The Three Disgraces.
I’ll leave out my thoughts on Liverpool One, that battle is fought and lost.
PEEL is the focus of this thread so I’ll say it again.
PEEL are in it for one thing, TO MAKE MONEY. If Merseyside surrenders to Peel Holdings we’ve a lot more to lose than money
The pyramids are tombs from a past civilization. Their very creation is a wonder to all. My cold eyes see only emptied tombs.The contents of the pyramids are far more beautiful to my eyes, telling their stories of the Egyptian empire. Pyramids might be fantastic and enigmatic, but the world has far more beautiful tombs.
Which brings me full circle. Peel’s towering structures and empire building, …………
Affably,
Chas:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
I'm not sure that "quality of workmanship" is to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
If the architect specified cheap drywall (plasterboard in the UK?) instead of a full plaster job with nice details moulded in the corners, then it's a design issue, not a quality issue.
The workmansip may be poor, but even good workmanship on a cheap design still gets you a cheap building...:)
I blame the architects/interior designers.
PS - having owned a house with drywall and a 40's house with lath and plaster, the drywall one is easier to maintain...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Show me a 21st century developer who isn't in it for money. Would you plough 5.5 billion of your money into it for nothing?
You say we lost the battle at Liverpool 1 Chas, I say we won. Im sure glad there aren't people on LCC who preferred to see bomb sites at South John st 70 years after the luftwaffe.
I think I agree Al-gizala. The architects deserve a lot of blame for designing easy build lego constructions to a price. The modern workman's priority being speed. My tale of Tommy the plasterer was real, he was brought in from an out of town job to redo the botched up jobs other workmen had done. He was near retirement age then, what happens when thee are no Tommys to call upon? We should be training our youth to build buildings they can take a pride in. .Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
Cheers,
Chas:PDT11
---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 AM ----------
I'll take the first question as rhetorical. Of course I wouldn't put 5.5 billion into this project. But if I had 5.5 billion I'd look at developing the land to benefit Liverpoool communities and industries, I can't stress enough that while scousers are without work and apartments are built that are out of their reach it will bring trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. At the moment it wants to appeal to the WAGs culture. No prices shown on anything, if you have to ask the price you can't afford it. Hope Liverpool folk aren't taken in by this trick. Grosvenor can afford to lose money, he just deducts it from his tax.
As can PEEL the enemy of Liverpool. PEEL HOLDINGS must be stopped..
Sorry Ged,
Best Wishes for yourself,
Chas:PDT11
No probs Chas, it's all about opinions :PDT11
I bet the workers of Cammell lairds or the workers at the new Liverpool airport terminal don't see them as liverpool's enemy though. Perhaps the wildlife up at Seaforth might though as they plan a post panamax terminal there too. Some enemies eh. I prefer to think the backwater thinking procrastinators are the real enemy as nothing would get done with them. They buy the paint for the house but never get around to doing it.
Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. At the moment it wants to appeal to the WAGs culture. No prices shown on anything, if you have to ask the price you can't afford it. Hope Liverpool folk aren't taken in by this trick. Grosvenor can afford to lose money, he just deducts it from his tax.
As can PEEL the enemy of Liverpool. PEEL HOLDINGS must be stopped..
Sorry Ged,
Best Wishes for yourself,
Chas:PDT11[/QUOTE]
John Lewis? Debenhams? Wags?
1 out of 3 , must try harder.... take 200 lines:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
see me in my study.:slywink:
What a sweeping statement to say that the whole of L1 only caters for the wives and girlfriends of footballers. I've been the Everton shop, i've bought a cd and dvd out of HMV (lots of initials there lol) Why, i've even been the world hot buffet restaurant a number of times to eat as much as I can for the price that a wag wouldn't buy a handbag for. I even saw pensioners coming out of W..H. Smiths - how ab out that then, I should have got a pic to prove all of this. Ha ha.
John Lewis? Debenhams? Wags?Quote:
Originally Posted by grekko
1 out of 3 , must try harder.... take 200 lines:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
see me in my study.:slywink:[/QUOTE]
I said wags culture. Do I really have to explain it further. I'd expect Wayne Rooney could explain it to you if you really don't understand it, Grekko.
I've never been to Liverpool One, I'm going on reports from others who I trust, what part of Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. is confusing you, Grekko.
I don't know where your study is, sir, can you be more explicit. Just to please a fellow pensioner:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
COPY AND PASTE THE ABOVE 19 Times.
Show yourself, Grekko.:evil:
I said wags culture. Do I really have to explain it further. I'd expect Wayne Rooney could explain it to you if you really don't understand it, Grekko.Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
I've never been to Liverpool One, I'm going on reports from others who I trust, what part of Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. is confusing you, Grekko.
I don't know where your study is, sir, can you be more explicit. Just to please a fellow pensioner:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
COPY AND PASTE THE ABOVE 19 Times.
Show yourself, Grekko.:evil:[/QUOTE]
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
sorry Sir, can I go home now?
Was Grekko there looking for a new study, I would like to see him? You don't have to get a pic for me, Ged. I just Google for the Liverpool One website and it only confirms my views. They're aiming sales at the wannabe Yuppies/ WAGS. I'll say it again, nothing priced. Draw your own conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Fed up watching this tin of paint dry,
I'm off to the pub,
Chas:slywink:
@chasevans, I know you said you Google for the Liverpool One website and it only confirms your views, so I thought that maybe to help us both determine the quantity of open or empty premises and stores aimed at appealing to Wags and non Wags , I could post this link so you could identify those you mean and especially the ones which don't display prices. I've visited quite a few times with my wife and if anyone is critical of pricing and the display of them,I have found her to be at the head of the queue, yet other than for a few overpriced stores which appear to be the norm nowadays on most high streets,or shopping centres,I can't say I've heard her voicing many criticisms.
http://www.liverpool-one.com/Vicinit...eDirectory.pdf
Where is this thread going??????????????
Ged there is a post office in W H Smiths,they have been collecting their pension as they have overspent
?:handclap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike
Thought you were going the pub?
Well the thread was originally going on about how a quango who gives out a certificate saying we have a World Heritage site and who passed the ugly black buildings on Mann Island is now helping prevent (with the aid of an unelected preservation trust one man band who can't see past rightly preserving Georgian stock) a 5.5 billion influx of private money being spent on revitalising a tumbleweed eyesore that nobody wanted to touch for at least 20 years.
Somehow it got onto how some L1 stores are overpriced. Do what I do and don't go in them then and if there's no supply and demand, they will close down, but probably not in your lifetime, just like I never go into Harrods when in London. It doesn't half work but the only problem then is you have to find something else to moan about instead of something else to be proud of. Do you watch Eastenders perhaps Chas ;)
---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by grekko
He was until he found you couldn't still get half a bitter, a packet of players and a box of swan vesta and still come out with change from a ten bob note ;)
"He was until he found you couldn't still get half a bitter, a packet of players and a box of swan vesta and still come out with change from a ten bob note"
:unibrow:
http://m.gmgrd.co.uk/res/239.$plit/C...A06%3A58%3A613 Peel's development director James Whittaker
Far Eastern investors are snapping up apartments at MediaCityUK in Salford Quays, having invested £4.5m so far.
Following sales visits to Hong Kong in March and the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur in May, Peel Media Living has sold 36 apartments in two residential blocks.
Peel has now committed to trips to Singapore in October and Hong Kong again in November.
Peel's development director James Whittaker said: “It became apparent at last year’s Shanghai Expo that there’s a real demand for UK investment opportunities within the Chinese market.
“The hotels there are booked each weekend by London-based developers selling schemes off-plan, so there was overwhelming evidence that marketing to this cash-rich corner of the world would pay off.
“We also had the benefit of a completed development and the twin attractions of the BBC and Manchester United to a market that loves British brands.
“But it was still a big risk for us. We invested £75,000 in marketing and needed to sell between eight and 10 units to break even.
“We used King Sturge’s office in Hong Kong to co-ordinate, and took the development models out with us, set up shop in a room in a hotel and waited to see what would happen.
“We sold 24 units to 24 different individuals. We achieved £3m worth of sales in three days.
“We went on to Kuala Lumpur where there is a massive Manchester United following and, while we did not do as well as Hong Kong, as the market there is more cautious and conservative, we still sold 12 units in two days.
“Since our return all 36 have completed.”
Peel has offered 12-month rental guarantees or furniture packs and say investors can expect a six per cent annual return on their capital.
Mr Whittaker added: “Chinese investors are very savvy, they want the best return for the least risk and were attracted not just by the fact that prices here are a third of the London equivalent but that they get instant returns.”
Manchester Evening News, July 21
Chas
:confused::confused::confused:
So what is your point - that we would be welcoming the biggest growing economy to our shores?
Should we only build terraced houses because that's all scousers can afford - we did all that from the 50s to the 90s and the inner city depopulated and it was left a tumbleweed wasteland. Do you know about demographics?
Catering for the top end of the market encourages entrepeneurial types who will open businesses employinglocals. Did Peel not reinvent Cammell lairds or build the new airport terminal? I bet those people in those jobs don't feel shanghai'd. ;)
All the best to you Chas.
A small part taken from the PEEL proposal.
Port of Liverpool
A major deep sea “gateway” port for the region and Great Britain, handling the full
range of deep sea traffics. The only West Coast deep sea container port
which will be able to accommodate post-Panamax vessels handling direct calls by
deep sea ships, as well as transhipment traffic to Ireland and traffic fed from other UK
and Continental deep sea container ports. The major Irish Sea ro-ro port in the North
West region, following the development of a riverside terminal.
A major sustainable distribution hub(waterborne, rail and road freight transport),
serving a national hinterland, with associated warehousing.
It noted that the Port has a shortage of land
within its estate and in the medium to long-term,
land availability is likely to be a key constraint to
development.
Opinions sought.
Chas:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Sounds almost like they want to start filling in the River Mersey to create more land...:gnasher:Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
I can imagine. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
Nice one Az-gila,
Chas:handclap:
Part of the shortage of land comprises the bird sanctuary at Seaforth that Peel has asked if they can relocate.
Which "Peel" were happy to allow to develop,surprisingly succesfully,but always with the provision that,one day,they might have to use the land involved! Access to the sanctuary isn't so easy,these days,and it will be sad to see it go,but it's a matter of priorities!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Correct Steve. It's almost as if some people don't want to see the city progress isn't it?
Now that's disgusting. Again, Merseyside will lose more wildlife. :PDT10Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
With all due respect, Ged and wsteve 55, I was merely pointing to Peel's lack of transparency in "The Master Plan". 300+ pages that appear to answer Merseyside issues. I think the "real" documents might give a clearer view of Peel's agenda.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/ima...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Ged http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/ima...post-right.png
Part of the shortage of land comprises the bird sanctuary at Seaforth that Peel has asked if they can relocate.
Thanks Ged, it's like drawing teeth.:034:
Regards,
Chas:PDT11
I take your point C, but I don't think "Peel"are quite the monsters you make them out to be,bearing in mind the reason any company, exist's at all,which is to make money! They don't have to "ask" to relocate the sanctuary,they can bulldoze it any time they like,but,they are showing at least some consideration by doing so,even if it is only cosmetic!
I'm glad,that after many years of decline,that anybody, can see the potential to succeed in Liverpool,with the associated benefits,though,of course, that doesn't mean they should have a free rein,by any means!
Why if it's just relocating and it wouldn't be there in the first place but for them, it's on their land.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing
---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------
That's right Steve and why stringent planning laws, rules and regulations have to be adhered to. Chas, do you have a relative working at Cammell Laird or the airport which due to Peel's takeovers have cemented jobs that WOULD - not could have been lost. How do you feel about that. All without costing you an extra penny on your tax.
Too many pot herbs in the scouse for my liking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Chas:angry:
Are you living anywhere near where all those streets are desolate around Anfield football ground Chas?. I would have thought your angst could be better directed towards another private company who are holding up the development of the area due to their will they wont they build a new ground - and LCC pandering to them and extending long expired plans to build on the people's Victorian Parkland. :Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13
I thought this thread was about Planning decision on Liverpools waterfront, are you trying to extend the thread to ...............where?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
What's YOUR point? (to repeat your question)
Chas:smoke:
Shall I start a new thread then?
Point proven.
Thank you.
Ged.:PDT_Piratz_26:
I'll gladly express my views on other topics, if you wish, although Liverpool waterfront and Peel are what this thread is about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
I'll take that as my "point proven".
Thanks,
Chas:PDT11
:PDT11