The Museum of Liverpool

All opinion Chris - all opinion.

What do people think of the Crown Plaza. Does the fact it's bland get it off the hook. Should we build bland? - are we are bland stagnating city? I'd say the Crown Plaza is undistinguished - an any city building but show me another like the unique X shape Museum by award winning designers and architects. My view of the Liver looking South from certain angles is blocked by the Crown Plaza - bah.

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Originally Posted by GeorgePorgie

Ged I've said me piece and on an ending note someone paid and the council were involved.....

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George. Do you have a link to that covenant? How did it get past the might of UNESCO and their beloved WHS certification. All a bit of a mystery this as it's only on the site of a building that was already there - the MOLL.

Hi Ged

The Crown Plaza is over to the side and less "in the face" than the stuff that has been built since. You can't say that the Crown Plaza takes anything at all away from the Liver Building... it's a lower building at a distance north of that First Grace.

Chris

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...52-25901760/2/

Chris. There is a street between the Liver and the Crown Plaza to the North of the 3 Graces. There is a street between the Port of Liverpool building and the new Museum to the south of the 3 graces. My view if standing behind the Crown Plaza would be no more or less blocked of the 3 graces than if I stood behind the Museum and complained of the same.



George, this is about the Port of Liverpool building convenant that it blocks THEIR view of the red dock offices - not that it blocks your view of the 3 graces.

''NML’s new X-wing museum blocks sight of former dock offices from the Port of Liverpool Building.''

No its not,Ged......

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It insisted nothing was built within 40ft of the river and any new buildings would not be taller than 40ft.

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The building is 85ft high at its highest point and is in the boundry of the distance from the river hence why the NML had to pay 750k.

Yes it is George, read the link you gave me. The covenant was produced by the MDHB.

The ferry terminal building has also been built within the same distance from the river since then.

What is your point exactly?

The definiton of the convenant is that any building that blocks any of the three graces ie the view seen from all angles has broken the convenant.

Looking at the port from coming up river from the north the building blocks two of the graces.

Wrong again George.

Here is an extract from the link YOU gave which I know all about right from the planning stage.

''The covenant dates back to 1963 when the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board – which then owned Mann Island and the Port of Liverpool Building - sold the land the museum now stands on to Liverpool Corporation.

It kept hold of the imposing port headquarters but wanted to protect its view of the Pilotage Office at the entrance to Canning Half Tide Dock.''


So the MDHB wanted to protect the view from their windows towards the pilotage office which is the red brick building on the photo in the link that YOU gave - take a look yourself if you don't believe.

You have said above in your post 47 that ''Looking at the port from coming up river from the NORTH' - do you mean the SOUTH because entering the River at the mouth and coming down past Bootle, the Museum is further South than the 3 Graces so blocks nothing.

The debate on these threads has always been the 'perceived' blocking of the view of the 3 Graces for US because of the Museum but this covenant is nothing to do with that and concerns the MDHB not being able to see their pilotage red brick building from their windows shown in the pic on the link that YOU gave here.

In the meantime, here's a pic of what Liverpool would still look like if you were on the planning committee as nothing new would ever get built - arf.:PDT11



http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3...erpool1680.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This thread is beginning to Remind me of the old Gus Elen song:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1GmDA8FU9w
parodied:
"As I sat there in our sh*tehouse
I could see new brighton lighthouse
if it wasn't for the 'ouses inbetween"

Ged,Ged...Ged the covenant is set out for the whole of the water front by the pierhead stop picking at straws and accept that the building has broken the convenant and in reality shouldn't be there but someone has taken a backhander in getting it in the place it is.

Have you got a stake in this?

Have you got a stake in Liverpool remaining like in that pic above?

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Originally Posted by grekko

This thread is beginning to Remind me of the old Gus Elen song:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1GmDA8FU9w
parodied:
"As I sat there in our sh*tehouse
I could see new brighton lighthouse
if it wasn't for the 'ouses inbetween"

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Brilliant grekko and so relevant to those that can't see that if I stood on Picton Road, my view to St Goerges Hall would be obstructed, so what would I do, why, catch the bus to Lime st of course so I wonder why all these people (about 9 of them) won't just walk around to the front of the 3 graces instead of trying to see them from quirky impossible angles just to be pedantic. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by GeorgePorgie

Ok here's my take on it.....

We have all seen the old housing photographs of the 17th and 18th century.......................
Nuff said.

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Where?

I can't debate with someone who puts up a link then makes things up that aren't in it. The fine was paid for breaking the covenant that ruled the MDHB couldn't see their little red pilot building from their windows - that was what was broken and sorted. Now it's there and if you reckon you've paid for it - then enjoy it. 6000 objects on view that otherwise wouldn't be. :rolleyes:

This museum would have been more fitting in the place of St Johns precinct ie knock the precinct down and replace with museum it would then have fitted in with the surroundings plus it would mean all other empty shops filled by the proprieters of the x precinct shops.

Apart from not being able to understand what you've written, wouldn't my view of the 3 graces be obscured by it if I were standing on Elliot street and looking towards the River?

Plus, do you think doing all that would have cost any less - or more perchance?

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Where?

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Yo is crammed with them in past threads and even the resident LRO anorak has a site full of em.

post # 36
Ok here's my take on it.....

We have all seen the old housing photographs of the 17th and 18th century,

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Originally Posted by GeorgePorgie

Yo is crammed with them in past threads and even the resident LRO anorak has a site full of em.

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No it isn't and no he hasn't.
Not a single photo ever taken during those times!

From the 17th and 18th Century - I wish ;)


Are you any happier today George?

How the house - the seagulls, the spiders, Corrie - the medication :PDT10

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Originally Posted by Ged

Chris. There is a street between the Liver and the Crown Plaza to the North of the 3 Graces. There is a street between the Port of Liverpool building and the new Museum to the south of the 3 graces. My view if standing behind the Crown Plaza would be no more or less blocked of the 3 graces than if I stood behind the Museum and complained of the same.

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I think it's clear as most people accept that the new museum has changed the look of the waterfront from Albert Dock. I guess I liked things as they were. I should stop bellyaching though.... the museum is grand for the tourists and for the people of Liverpool (locals and exiles) alike... and when you come out you have the fabulous view of those wonderful three buildings. :handclap:

Cheers

Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

You read it wrong yer wazzocks....Most of the houses where built before the 19th century and photies were taken in the 19th century.

The house I just left was built in 1890...you know where to stick those drumsticks,Gedro...just make sure you push em harder.

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Originally Posted by GeorgePorgie

You read it wrong yer wazzocks....Most of the houses where built before the 19th century and photies were taken in the 19th century.

The house I just left was built in 1890...you know where to stick those drumsticks,Gedro...just make sure you push em harder.

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You've got me puzzled with that statement about the house you just left. What has a 20th century built house got to do with the very few houses that were built in Liverpool IN THE 1600's and 1700's ?

Had a funny experience today,took 2 of my grandchildren to town today, a boy of 7 and a girl of 13.
Visited the Western Approaches museum which I have never been in before. Had to drag them out after
two and a half hours they didn`t want to leave. Then proceeded to the new museum, after 20 minutes they said can we go now,?.
The girl was a frequent visitor with me to the old liverpool life museum and the old 1940`s house as she grew up, she said she preferred them... to the new one .
I said give me a mark out of 10 for both museums the answer, i/10 for the new one 9/10 for the Western Approaches.
I must confess they are from Upholland

Joe,Put a windup gramphone and a modern stereo system in front of a child and immediatly the interest will be around the gramaphone....what I'm trying to say is they know about the beatles,they know about LFC ect,ect and the new building doesn't capture the atmosphere of a museum.

Anyway whats your honest opinion on the display?

:handclap: Upholland should be proud, congratulate your grandchildren, Gregs dad :handclap:
Chas:PDT11

Apparently someone is waiting....

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does thunderbird four come out the canal

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in front of the building. pmsl

Though,like many,I had my doubts about the proposed plans for the Pier Head,there's no mistaking the success of the realised version,if numbers of people down there,recently,are anything to go by! I suppose it depends on what criteria you want to use,but in many ways,if not all,it's got to be a vast improvement on what was there before,which I always thought,looked like a rather large public toilet,with all that tiling,(sorry Ged:noid:)and at least now,you don't have to dodge quite so many buses!
As for the museum,it's a typical modern design of it's day,just like the the "World" museum was, in it's day,and it compares well with any similar type of building ,anywhere else ! I'd think it is what's inside it, is what's most important though,and on which, I'll reserve judgement,till I've actually been,as it's been pretty busy up till now,just like it should be:nod:

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

I think it's clear as most people accept that the new museum has changed the look of the waterfront from Albert Dock. I guess I liked things as they were. I should stop bellyaching though.... the museum is grand for the tourists and for the people of Liverpool (locals and exiles) alike... and when you come out you have the fabulous view of those wonderful three buildings. :handclap:

Cheers


Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

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Hi Chris. I agree of course with your last statement but sorry to be pedantic over the actual location of the Museum. It is on a jut of land that projects it away from the port of liverpool building so the view of the 3 graces from the Albert dock is not obstructed. Now then, the view of the 3 graces from the Albert dock is obstructed by those awful black buildings. Most people i've spoken to do indeed agree the new museum has changed the look of the waterfront - but for the better. There's enough empty pavement elsewhere down there. It hold more exhibits than any local museum ever before and we should be lapping that fact up.

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Originally Posted by gregs dad

Had a funny experience today,took 2 of my grandchildren to town today, a boy of 7 and a girl of 13.
Visited the Western Approaches museum which I have never been in before. Had to drag them out after
two and a half hours they didn`t want to leave. Then proceeded to the new museum, after 20 minutes they said can we go now,?.
The girl was a frequent visitor with me to the old liverpool life museum and the old 1940`s house as she grew up, she said she preferred them... to the new one .
I said give me a mark out of 10 for both museums the answer, i/10 for the new one 9/10 for the Western Approaches.
I must confess they are from Upholland

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After 2.5 hours in an earlier museum, they must have been getting quite bored with it all, it's a lot to ask of kids that age to be wanting to traipse around museums for hours on end - I used to at William Brown street but our eyes were on the out of town girls ha ha. I saw parents having to drag thier kids away from all the interactive push button / phone info stuff in the new museum last weekend. Try your trip the other way around next time Joe. ;)

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I continue to find it bemusing why some, if very few, of the good people of Liverpool should show such disdain towards a new museum which champions things such as our local soldiers (possibly including relatives of the detractors), champion sportsmen such as Conteh and Volante, record breaking No1 artists - with a similar display to the record attending 'the beat goes on'. Our cultural connections to other lands, so well put together in the global city gallery. A chance to see the overhead carriage and Ford Anglia again - even if the latter could have been better placed - it's better than nothing. The fact the Beatles are mentioned proves how little one knows about the exhibits as the Beatles have been almost especially hardly mentioned as they have their own dedicated museum at the Albert dock and they didn't want to dilute the exhibits already on show there.

I rather think they've made their stance so vociferously now that there's no going back on if nothing else, seeing it for what it is - a massive attraction which will help the local economy of their city. Pffft - Victor Meldrew is alive and well. I don't like Anfield but I can appreciate it needs to be there ;)

Ged, I hope you dont mind me saying this..
I've stayed away from debating with you mate because of the personal insults
that come flying back at me..

But if you dont mind me saying.. on a thread about the Museum..
I think its about time you realised that building is hated by the people of Liverpool..
Ask yourself why Ged.. ?

That my opinion... and the opinion of the people of Liverpool..

You Ged, are the only person I've come across that likes that place..
I'm not making that up.. thats a fact.

Can I say that.. without fear of any insults.. ?


Cheers..

Gerard.

You can indeed state your opinion but not as facts. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

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Originally Posted by Ged

You can indeed state your opinion but not as facts. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

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Thank you Ged..

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Originally Posted by GeorgePorgie

Joe,Put a windup gramphone and a modern stereo system in front of a child and immediatly the interest will be around the gramaphone....what I'm trying to say is they know about the beatles,they know about LFC ect,ect and the new building doesn't capture the atmosphere of a museum.

Anyway whats your honest opinion on the display?

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GP ,Considering the numbers who have already passed through the new museums doors ,
could you please consider the following reasons for visiting a museum and tell me where you think The Museum of Liverpool fails to ..." capture the atmosphere of a museum".

The Explorer: motivated by personal curiosity.
The Facilitator: motivated by/because of another person (such as a parent bringing a child to the museum).
The Experience Seeker: motivated to see and experience places. (such as a tourist visiting a new city).
The Professional Hobbyist: motivated by specific knowledge-related goals.
The Recharger: motivated by contemplative/restorative experience.

I genuinely would like to know what you think is a museum atmosphere.

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Originally Posted by Spike

Went today. Its ok. It will be good when the first floor is done.

Too crowded for me, but I shoved my way into the WW1 section. Found my two great grandads listed on the roll of honour.

I will go back when the kids are back in school. some interesting things there I would like to look at in detail.

Have you been in the Court Housing? Did you press the button on the outside loo...HA HA HA HA.

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I like it.

I think the building is nice and fits in well as its not high in the sky. The pics I am seeing of it look very good. I will be glad when the first floor is up and running and the crowds have died down a bit ( Kids back in school ) It goes with the Canal and im a big fan of the canal.

I personally think 150,000+ bodies in 10 days was it speaks for itself. I've probably spoken to more than most simply because I've been shanghai'd by people who've recognised me there who've asked questions about the model. I always ask what do they think of the building, it's location, would they be back. I do look at it objectively, model there or not as it won't always be and apart from those on once in a lifetime tourist trips they have all said yes yes yes. I must be asking the wrong people :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Spike

I like it..

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That's about 150,001 then Spike if you're not one of the 150,000 that's seen it already then. :PDT11

Keep that mouth pointing thissaway U.

I saw it last Sunday. Sue liked it as well. Sam did not care as he wanted Baby TV.

Loved the view from the big window looking over the Canal. Hoping they give the wars the section they deserve ( bigger area ) Noticed on the lifts they are down as being on the First floor. So hoping it all gets moved when this is finished.

Ah that view. The one where I said everyone would be up there taking a pic and it seems they are if you look at Flickr and forums. All taking pics from a building they hate. A bit hypocritical that isn't it?

Ged it wasn`t a case of boredom they just did not like it. As a matter of fact they wanted to go across to the Maritime museum and then on to the Walker Gallery

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150,000+ bodies in 10 days was it speaks for itself.

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I say...since admission is free how did they come to this figure?

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Originally Posted by GeorgePorgie

I say...since admission is free how did they come to this figure?

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Had the figure been quoted as 50,000 would you have accepted that ?

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Originally Posted by gregs dad

Ged it wasn`t a case of boredom they just did not like it. As a matter of fact they wanted to go across to the Maritime museum and then on to the Walker Gallery

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Same here, I just thought it was a bit dull to be honest. I was peeved that they put the Ford Anglia way out of sight and was peeved they had Wheelie Bins on display. What the ???
I just hope it improves because at the moment it is dull as dishwater. :PDT10

Just to add to that...I don't like Liverpool 1, I am not a Beatles fan, I dislike what's happened to the waterfront and I am not a big footy head. I wonder if I am a true Scouser because you gotta like those things to be Scouse. Haven't you ? Ha.

No,even if they said 10,000....I want to know an exact figure give or take a couple of hundred not a pull it out the hat one.

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I was peeved that they put the Ford Anglia way out of sight

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I'm glad you brought this up,because if my mem is correct? as a nipper....didn't they have the Anglia in the old museum? and wasn't it a blue one? alongside all manner of transport ie old fire engine,horsedrawn bus ect,ect.