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My first proper job was with a Company called Bearings NW which was situated at 50 Renshaw Street. I was told that there was a system of tunnels underneath it which extended up to Lime Street station?
True or false, I never found out, but behind the shop fronts of Renshaw Street were [still is] many alleyways leading to small holdings / stables etc like a lost village.
that is amazing!
i am sure jona will be having a little look!!:celb (23):
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Originally Posted by mottman
Spot on and true! I was down one of these alleyways a few years back dropping through one of the man hole covers which was in Kwik Fit. It was obvious that the alleyway pointed in the direction of Lime Street and I'm sure if I was to contact more shops with cellar access, they'd come across more of em. :)
There was certainly a warren of subterranean streets under Exchange Flags, containing homes and shops. This is recorded in some detail by Herman Melville (of Moby **** reknown) in, I think, his youthful work, Redburn, His First Voyage (1849).
A wonderful book, incidentally, that recalls the author's adventures crossing the Atlantic as a poverty-stricken boy sailor in 1837 and spending six weeks, while his ship was berthed in prince's Dock, wandering the streets of Liverpool and writing in great detail of all he experienced. One of the finest books about Liverpool I know and highly recommended reading- but I don't know if, unlike his better-known stuff, it was ever reprinted in modern times.
Redburn, His First Voyage is available as an ebook.
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext05/8redb10h.htm
:002:
Brilliant. All of you should get it now!
Thanks to Shytalk, I've done a search in "Redburn" for these subterranean streets, with, so far, no luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by knowhowe
Knowhowe, would you please tell us where we can find the information?
What chapter is it in?
I've also got the Penguin version of the book, if you know the page.
Thanks.
I'd heard stories about stuff underneath Exchange Flags. Wouldn't surprise me, as it was an important trading area - I'm sure there would have been extensive vaults and basements. Now though, it's a carpark isn't it? There's a ventilation shaft that comes up beneath the statue in the middle of the flags.
The car park was built in the 1950s as an early example of an underground car park, when the present Exchange Buildings were erected.Quote:
Originally Posted by snappel
I've never heard that it replaced anything else.
The Town Hall was originally called the Exchange, and the buildings behind are the third to be called Exchange Buildings.
Both Exchange Buildings and the Town Hall, and the Nelson Monument are well documented, but there's never been any mention of anything else underground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
There is the Ice House under the Town Hall which no one seems to know about. A good friend of mine went in last year and took some pictures, I'll see if he's still got em on E-mail and upload em and exactly where it is.
Frank Carlyles Liverpool unseen dvd shows him under the Town Hall but the tunnels seem to have been capped off/bricked up.
Hi SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by knowhowe
Redburn is available as a cheaply available modern paperback from Penguin or Doubleday. I have a copy. It is also available as a free ebook from Gutenberg.
Chris
Hmm, yes. My mistake, it seems re the reference appearing in Redburn. I was sure it did, but having (yet again) picked it up to check- and inevitably getting hopelessly distracted by the wealth of wonders it contains- I, too, can't find the reference. I will, however, resume the root through my 'old Liverpool' library to find it, never fear.
It was certainly in a period novel, with part of the action involving a visit to this subterranean community and the author expressing his amazement at the number of people and building existing down there...
I heard there was one underneath Lime street and it my of gone to a pub in the scotland road area called The Pie Shop. anyone know of this pub?
I heard that there was a street underneath lime street station. And a tunnel that runs from the Pier Head to walton Jail I believe it was something to do with the slave trade.
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Originally Posted by Gnomie
The pie shop was the nickname for the Byrom, only demolished 18 months or so ago. I don't know of any tunnels under it but someone could be getting confused with the nearby Waterloo tunnel which was just 50 yards away from it and ran from Waterloo dock up to Edge Hill.
[QUOTE=theninesisters;26325]Far less known is a tunnel that is rumoured to run from St Georges hall to the statue at the bottom of London Road - this was mentioned by an old guide but nothing seems to have been looked in to.[QUOTE]
I worked in St Georges hall during the recent restoration an can confirm there is a tunnel running towards the docks, i have seen it as it was somewhere to go for a smoke break! It is blocked up and has been for years i was told. This tunnel was massive an i was told it had something to do with slaves that were brought into the country but as the trade had been abolished in 1807 and hall competed in 1854 i didnt beleive this explanation any more information would be appreciated.
[QUOTE=TheBandit;74211][QUOTE=theninesisters;26325]Far less known is a tunnel that is rumoured to run from St Georges hall to the statue at the bottom of London Road - this was mentioned by an old guide but nothing seems to have been looked in to.I too have heard of this tunnel from a person that knows the Hall and surroundings like the back of their hand, although they mentioned the tunnel from the Hall to the Statue, not leading towards the docks.Quote:
I worked in St Georges hall during the recent restoration an can confirm there is a tunnel running towards the docks, i have seen it as it was somewhere to go for a smoke break! It is blocked up and has been for years i was told. This tunnel was massive an i was told it had something to do with slaves that were brought into the country but as the trade had been abolished in 1807 and hall competed in 1854 i didnt beleive this explanation any more information would be appreciated.
There is also another little known underground section underneath the Liverpool Empire. A massive stone archway, spanning about 40ft can be found in the basement area for anyone lucky enough to find an excuse to go down. My friend was working on the electrics there and had a good nose around.
[QUOTE=Cadfael;74213][QUOTE=TheBandit;74211]I don't mean to sound like a cynic.Quote:
Originally Posted by theninesisters
Hopefully more like the voice of reason, but it's interesting that agreement can't be reached on some tunnels.
The 40ft arch under the Empire sounds about the right width to have something to do with the stage.
The present 1925 building was built on the site of an 1866 theatre and the original side wall remains next to where the Legs of Man was, and presumably the cellars/basement area remains.
[QUOTE=PhilipG;74214][QUOTE=Cadfael;74213]If we all agreed on what something was or wasn't then there would be no need for a discussion Philip :) Whatever people assume underground sections to be isn't the main issue, it is the fact that they have been found and recorded is good enough in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit
I wouldn't touch the Williamson's Tunnels theory of 'are they tunnels or roads' as you have to define what a road actually is. Certainly there is documentation of two horse drawn carriages passing side by side in an entrance to the Williamsons Tunnels!
[QUOTE=Cadfael;74215][QUOTE=PhilipG;74214]"Found and recorded" isn't enough though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadfael
If you know the history of the sites, it usually provides most, if not all, of the answers.
It's rather irresponsible to suggest to impressionable people that underground streets exist, when even you've said in one of your earlier posts that you don't know what is under Renshaw Street.
People want to believe in the fantastic, so I suspect that I'm not going to bother contributing much more to this thread, as I'm only going to repeat myself.
Besides, I'm not sure now what thread I'm in!
[QUOTE=PhilipG;74223][QUOTE=Cadfael;74215]You seem to be the only person to rather than say 'good find, nice to know something is there and thanks for taking the trouble to tell us all' to wanting to argue the toss on something when you've not seen it for yourself. It's little wonder that lots of people don't post things any more for fear of people like yourself picking holes in anything you say, rather than being pleased that something different has been found in the city centre. There is no point in being pedantic about something to the extreme to just make a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
[QUOTE=Cadfael;74227][QUOTE=PhilipG;74223]I'm sorry, Brother Cad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadfael
I didn't realise you wanted credit for finding an underground street.
Congratulations. :handclap:
At one stage you said you enjoyed "Discussions", and I've only put forward my point of view.
I wonder why your post above has taken the tone it has?
[QUOTE=PhilipG;74255][QUOTE=Cadfael;74227]Because of your general attitude when it comes to something that you aren't 'up on'. You seem to take great delight in telling us what you do know - which is fantastic, but when it comes to a subject you don't know much about, you try and pull it apart and offer anything but credit for. I'm not after credit, no one is on the site, but for the handful of people who were interested in this subject of the lost street, you have done everything to derail the subject by chopping and changing your views on what is or isn't there and seem to have knowledge of something you've never seen before which is rather funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Maybe not to you, but for the rest of us, it gives a glimpse of the things that people find in this city and are pleasing for other people to view.Quote:
"Found and recorded" isn't enough though.
Your short comments are of no help to anyone especially your 'well I've not heard of any Mersey Tunnel collapse'. Stick to subjects you know and I'll give you credit for, but don't try and speak down to people because you're not the one in the know for a change.
We've both had our say, let's get back to the subjects at hand and let everyone else continue their posting.
Deleted.
Back to Church St.,I read a book about the construction of the Mersey Railway and nothing was mentioned about any sort of shop remains found during tunnelling,either for the original tunnel under Church St itself or the new Loop tunnel under Brooks Alley,and given both of these are close to the surface*,I think this one should be taken with a large bag of salt until hard evidence comes up. But it would be so cool to be true!
*when Waterstones' basement was public,you could hear the trains passing along the [new] tunnel which runs under the Co-Op's bank's front door...
Dave.
I've added pictures of the underground street (renshaw street) and a couple of pictures of the cellar system under The Vines on Lime Street:
http://undergroundliverpool.co.uk/renshawstreet
Fantastic stuff there,Cadfael. Do you think it will ever be possible to establish why,and how, some of these underground structures exist?
Steve.
:handclap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadfael
Brother Cad.
I know my comments aren't always appreciated in this thread, but wouldn't it be a good idea to find out exactly what buildings were above this underground "mystery", and trace them right back through street directories?
The answer might then be apparent.
I've given the history of the general area already.
Your comments are always welcome Philip, just because we don't see eye to eye on what something is or isn't, you are a wealth of knowledge and we're all grateful to have you on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
It is something that I am going to look in to, for the moment I am going through all my old pictures of St Luke's to see what is in shot which may give me some indication of what may have stood there and whether it is different to that of today's buidings. :PDT11