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Just one of the less "glamorous" services,I suppose,but without them,the others wouldn't have had much,if any success!! My mates dad,was on a Murmansk convoy,and he always said how grateful he was,for not getting torpedoed,while on it! He did go on to get sunk 3 times in the Atlantic,but he said at least there, you had a chance of survival!Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo42
Phew, sounds like a brave guy. I honestly don't know why they did it. If war broke out and I was a sailor, I'd have gone into the RN. At least there's a chance to fight back.Quote:
Originally Posted by wsteve55
Even in the Atlantic, there was virtually no chance for survival if you sank. We were told that if we went into the sea, you had four minutes to live.
If you were in the Merchant Marine, could you not leave the service in wartime.
Even in the Atlantic, there was virtually no chance for survival if you sank. We were told that if we went into the sea, you had four minutes to live. PABLO.
Hi Pablo, you are right.
I had to go to the inquest, as a winess, on the dead of the `POOL FISHER` that sank thirty years ago next week, 5 November 1979.
The Royal Naval Surgeon Commander gave evidence, he said the survival time in the English Channel in November was around five minutes, all depending on the man`s age and fitness. so I would guess that in the Arctic or North Atlantic it would be considerably less.
Two young lads, Mark Fooks age 17, of Widnes, and Don Crane aged 18 of Wallasey, survived for five hours, The RN Commander said it was remarkable, the fact that they were young, fit, and had plenty of weight on them saved them, tho` they were on the point of death from Hypothermia when rescued by the helicopter.
Jeez Captain, five hours is a long time. We had a couple who nearly died around Norway who were in dry suits that leaked. Little tiny pin holes let in small quantities of water, yet it was enough. They were young fit guys too. I always done me best to keep out of the water, but it usually meant you got it more. We always got a good soaking when we were working on the North Sea rigs. We were more bothered about the weather there though, than we were the water.
Hi Pablo,
here is a copy of the quote from the Inquest.............
"Commander Doctor Frances Golden, RN, of the Institute of Survival Medicine, said, ?The two lads who survived were exceptional, they clung to wreckage for over five hours in gale force winds amongst waves 40 feet high.
It was probably their age and fitness that helped them to survive."
unquote.
It was a wild night, the weather was atrocious.
The other 13 people who died probably died from Hypothermia and a few may have died from drowning.
I believe Terry Morgan of Wallasey was trapped after going in the capsized accommodation to rescue the two young lads and drowned inside. He was on deck with a lifejacket on and it was presumed he was trapped after the two lads got out. They had no life jackets on and survived.
Terry Morgan was never acknowledge for his bravery both at the Inquest and at the Court of Inquiry afterwards.
There should be somewhere were a man like that should be given a posthhumous award for his bravery. He could have stayed on deck and save himself.
I read a report from the R.N. that HMS Cardiff picked up a man and woman in an `embrace` both were dead and still clinging together. The woman was Mrs, Doris Carvill, the wife of the Chief Engineer who also died.
Only three bodies were found.
sad event.
What a tragedy. It's amazing the two lads got out. I done a helicopter course once with an inflated life jacket on. Had to get helped by the divers, cos I floated to the roof. I think that's why they tell you not to inflate your life jacket before you leave a sinking plane.
I,ve been neglecting this site lately,so here's a couple of pics to stir some interest. During the First World War,the War Office took radical steps in in camouflaging it's vessels, unlike the drab grey of WW2 ,auxilliary ships were given dazzle camouflage and I have posted two examples of this . The lone ship is the PSNC liner the Panama shown in her dazzle as an auxilliary;she later became a hospital ship and stayed in that role up until after WW2 . The second picture shows the Britannic in her Hospital ship colours ,she was sunk wearing them in 1916, and the sister of the Titanic,the Olympic,in her wartime dazzle. It would have been a hell of a job painting her,
BrianD
I have taken this picture from the cover of the Red Duster magazine.
It is a study of dazzle ships in drydock in Liverpool. A most striking work of art. I bet the workmen had to have a jar or two after working on them.
Nice one Brian. They reckon the dazzle camouflage was very effective as submarines found it difficult to distiguish two ships together and their speed and direction. When we werein the desert we had our Land rovers and Unimogs painted pink. They reckoned it blended in better. We drew the line at high heels.Quote:
Originally Posted by brian daley
[IMG]http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/v...42pics/514.jpg[/IMG]
Seen this in New York. Dunno it's name , but I think it's a Canandian Destroyer. There was a big naval thing for Independence Day
[IMG]http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/v...42pics/515.jpg[/IMG]
Here's her id. i reckon she's a destroyer. Anyone know her name.
Pablo,
The vessel is a Halifax class Frigate of thr Canadian Navy.
Her name is St,John's.
Great stuff, thanks Harbourm. She was in New York for Independence Day. I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbourm
Hi Brian,Quote:
Originally Posted by brian daley
is there any evidence that dazzle camouflage was effective? It always seems associated with ww1 ships,but by ww2,it was discontinued,I think!?
[IMG]http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/v...42pics/516.jpg[/IMG]
This is the Police Launch escorting her in.
Here are pictures of two early casualties of WW11, the cargo boat is Cunards Bosnia ,which was stoppped off the coast of Portugal on September the 7th. The crew were allowed to take to their life boats and the German U-boat put two torpedoes into her. The crew were then put on board a Norwegian steamer which landed them in Lisbon.
The aircraft carrier HMS Courageous was sank 0n Sunday September the 17th. As with most wartime news reports there is no list of those missing nor does the report indicate where the vessel when she was torpedoed.
Both pictures were taken from the September 1939 edition of War Illustrated,
BrianD
I was contacted by e.mail re the above. A lady gave me the site address of HMS Courageous. I googled it and learned that the Courageous was torpedoed off the coast of Ireland and over 500 crew perished. The internet is a wonderful thing for gathering information. A massive disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by brian daley
BD
QUEST TV(Channel 38 Freeview) and SKY TV Channel 167
Mighty Ships: Episode 8 Follow the cutting-edge Danish warship HDMS Absalon as it patrols the volatile sea around the Horn of Africa hunting down pirates.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/absalon/
Tues 24th Nov @ 2100
Weds.25th Nov @ 1400 and 2200
I'll try and have a mozey at that. Thanks Brian.
I can tell them exactly where they are. I spent some time there.
Just seen it and very interesting, but they didnt kill the Pirates.
Just get replaced Captain. They aint got much else.Quote:
Originally Posted by captain kong
The Cunard White Star liners Aquitania and Queen Mary camouflaged in grey for their service as troopships in WW11. They are shown lying in the Clyde Anchorage Emergency Port improvised in 1940 by the stevedoring and cargo handling company,Scruttons Ltd of London.
this study was by the Australian born marine artist Arthur James Wetherall Burgess,
BrianD
gOOD ONE BRIAN , NOT SEEN THAT PICTURE BEFORE.
The 35,000 ton battle ship HMS PRINCE OF WALES, sailing from Singapore 8 December 1941, she was sunk two days later on the 10th with HMS REPULSE 50 miles off the east coast of Malaya.
840 men died on the two ships after being attacked by 88 japanese bombers.
Photo, Prince of Wales leaving Singapore, HMS EXPRESS taking survivors off Prince of Wales.
The badge of P.O.W. in St Andrews Cathedral in Singapore including a brass memorial plate, The photo was hard to take with it being polished brass.
Nice one Brian.
I inherited a wonderful series of books for children that were published by George Newnes prior to the 2nd World War.I think they were discontinued in 1940 ,but they are mine of information. Called Pictorial Knowledge ,they have a marvellous collection of paintings and pictures that were meant to stimulate young minds. I will post them wwithout comment,hope you enjoy them,
BrianD
Nice one Brian. That's what a Navy should look like.
What Happened,
That is when we had a Navy until these wimps of inexprienced Politicians got their grubby hands on it.
Going back a bit but HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship. Portsmouth harbour, c.1900's
I guess I've got a bit to learn about the new site,let's hope I got this right(Good Looking Site Kev)
Here is another great ship from our Imperial past,the HMS Glasgow ,by courtesy of the Pictorial Book Of Knowledge,
BrianD
HMS Eaglet - name changed from HMS Eagle in 1918, when it became a Liverpool training ship. It was lost in a fire in 1926, and sold as a wreck in 1927.
The image shows the ship, moored in Salthouse dock, with the Customs House in the background.
Here is a picture that bursts with energy. This is the HMS Devastation ,seen at the review of the fleet by the Shah of Persia in 1873, she is demonstrating her twin, 12 inch muzzle loading guns. Armoured and ugly, Devastation has finally abandoned sail,big guns are now the main concern.This painting was done by Edward William Cooke,
BrianD
Devastation abandoned masts altogether. Well, the first whose entire main armament was mounted on top of the hull rather than inside it. For the first fifteen years, they were the most powerful warships in the world until HMS Dreadnought came along.Quote:
Originally Posted by brian daley
The guns were outdated, the breech loading Armstrong guns on the earlier Laird Rams destined for the US Confederacy were superior in design. The Rams were reluctantly taken into the RN - they did not design the ships.
The pre war Washington Treaty put limits on the sizes of warships that each nation who signed it could build. Great Britain took the treaty very seriouslyand worked within the limitations. The King George Five class battleships were heavily armoured and fire power was sacrificed to this end.The compromise solution was of a quadrruple turret for eight of the 14 inch guns was only partially succesful and the forecastle was very cramped and wet.HMS Duke of York(below)sank the Scharnhorst in the battle of the North Cape,
BrianD
This dramatic painting is by thr great marine artist Charles Pears. we are shown the Battle of the North Cape when the British force under Admiral Fraser succeeded in sinking the awesome Scharnhorst on the 26th of December 1943,
BrianD
Hi Brian , I did two weeks training on HMS DUKE OF YORK, a fantastic ship.it had ten 14 inch guns and 8 5.25 inch cuns along the sides.Here is a photo of me in 1950 underthe forard six 14 inchers one turret on the quarter deck aft had another four 14 inchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by brian daley
Great pictures Brian,were you with the sea cadets? And did you realise then what a piece of history you were a part of.
Shown below is a painting by the German war artist Adolf Bock, and it shows the heroically tragic encounter betwwen the German heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper and the British destroyer ,HMS Glowworm.The Hipper caught Glowworm as she cma out of a fog bank off the Norwegian coast on April 8 1940. In less than a minute Hipper struck her with a couple of salvos at a range of 300 yards .But Glowworm rammed the Hipper just before sinking.
BrianD
Great stuff guys.
I was kindly sent this picture of the Mauretania in her wartime livery as a hospital ship. The painting is by Kenneth D .Shoesmith ,one of the great marine artists ,who is the subject of a book soon to be published and the author of it ,Glyn L.Evans sent me this and gave me permission to post it here. I have never seen this one before; does anyone out there have any pictures,prints or postcards by this artist? I know that Glyn would be very interested to hear from you if you have,
BrianD
Here are some veterans of the old trooping service;foremost is the Serapis. Constructed for the Raj,they had the Star of India emblazoned on the bow.Allof the troopships had the same main paintwork but were distinguished by the different coloured stripes around the hull.Built in 1866,she could carry 1,200 personnel. Before the Suez Canal was opened she used to troop from Portsmouth to Alexandria.After years of continuous trooping she was withdrawn in 1894 and broken up shortly afterwards.
This painting was done by Charles Dixon forthe book, Britannias Bulwarks,
BrianD