Just reading the London thread, Ged. I think the people who have the biggest problem are the Whites. Most Black/Asian people I know just want to get on with their lives and do what's best for their kids.
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Just reading the London thread, Ged. I think the people who have the biggest problem are the Whites. Most Black/Asian people I know just want to get on with their lives and do what's best for their kids.
Yes, not least the liberal white p.c. brigade who love to beat themselves up over it. It shouldn't be forgotten but never a year seems to go by when a programme isn't made about it, a museum exhibition opened or added to, an apology sought or street name changing idea. It would appear that no one is seeking appeasement and how could this generation's apology do so anyway. Time to draw a line under it I think and as you say, just move on.
They're the ones Ged. :PDT_Xtremez_12:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Yeah and all these idiots like Kanye West crying their eyes out about it. Today's blacks living in the USA enjoy the best quality of life of any black community on the planet. So it wasn't all in vain... things have come a long way since the slave trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Kanye West is so up his own backside. I luv people like that, because they make my laugh:PDT11
Wikipedia
"In January 2006, West again sparked controversy when he appeared on the cover of Rolling Stone in the image of Jesus wearing a crown of thorns. Later that month, he suggested in Playboy that if a bible were written in the present day, he is famous and important enough to be included in it. "I throw up historical subjects in a way that makes kids want to learn about them." West claimed, "[I'm] definitely in the history books already.""
I agree with much of what has been said but we do need to learn lessons from our past.
I think we have.But we don't constantly need to be told we have to apologize.I didn't do anything.Shall we ask the Italians to apologize for the Romans invading most of Europe?
But didn't the Romans bring civilisation to the areas they conquered and occupied? Also, the habitants of those lands conquered, were made full citizens of Rome with all that that entailed. A citizen in Helsby was as much a Roman as was a citizen in Herculaneum.Quote:
Originally Posted by stan
No doubt Romans exploited the conquered lands and peoples but I would suggest that Roman conquest was far less brutal (a 1000 years + difference in sensibilities) than European conquest of Africa, the Americas and the far east islands of Indonesia and Philipines. And although the natives of these lands were called Dutch, British, Spanish, Portuguese, etc., none had full rights with representation in the "Motherland".
Some will disagree, i'm sure.
Yes, it was far less brutal throwing the peasants to the lions and all that - couldn't we do that now. Young white kids working up chimneys, down mines and in mills was slavery - so was the Egyptian Pyramid building. There's human trafficking going on right now and the Chinese cockle pickers were exploited in Morecambe by, you guess it, Chinese gang masters. Off out now to pick someone up, see what Roger Phillip's listeners have got to moan abo....sorry, say.
What is it they say about sarcasm? You obviously missed my reference to the fact that more than a thousand years had passed, with times "civilising" effect, between lions gorging on humans, for sport and/or punishment, and trading in human beings or, it was lost on you. And of course your reference to nineteen and twentieth century excessives of capitalism wasn't lost on me. However, those same "white kids" became "black, brown, yellow and red kids" in colonial locations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
History of the Slave Trade, Roscoe Lecture
09 March 2007
Adam Hochschild: "Though born in the age of swords, wigs and stagecoaches, the British anti-slavery movement leaves us an extraordinary legacy."
http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/MKG_Global_Ima...oe_hoch(1).gif
Adam Hochschild delivered a fascinating Roscoe Lecture on the history of the slave trade to an audience of around 800 people on 7 March 2007.
The acclaimed author of 'Bury the Chains', which traces the movement to end slavery in the British Empire, began by reminding the audience that in the late 18th century, when early abolitionists first began to campaign against the slave trade, around three-quarters of the people on earth were in bondage of one form or another, be it as outright slaves or as bonded labourers and serfs.
During his lecture, Hochschild attempted to redress the historical imbalance which he believes over emphasises the role of Wilberforce. Instead he highlighted the work of abolitionists such as Thomas Clarkson, who actively campaigned to end slavery between 1785 and 1838. During his campaign, Clarkson travelled over 35,000 miles on horseback around the UK and survived numerous attempts on his life. He also helped to secure over 60,000 signatures, many more people that where entitled to vote at the time, on a petition asking for the abolition or reform of the slave trade.
Hochschild also stressed how the actions of slaves themselves helped weaken the pro-slavery case, through slave revolts and rebellions in the West Indies and beyond, and through the actions of former slaves, such as Olaudah Equiano, who went on a five year book tour of the British Isles promoting his best-selling autobiography, a vivid account of his life in slavery and freedom.
The British anti-slavery movement has, said Hochschild, left us an extraordinary legacy. Not only did it pioneer approaches such as consumer boycotts, newsletters, petitions, political posters and much more, but more importantly it proved that ordinary people could secure wide-reaching political and social change.
Professor David Alton, who chairs LJMU's Foundation for Citizenship, which hosts the Roscoe Lecture series, added that while it is right to commemorate emancipation, we should also remember that contemporary forms of slavery still persist on a vast scale. He said: "Over the last 200 years, many human rights campaigns have been modelled on the successful actions of Roscoe, Wilberforce, Equanio, Clarkson and other abolitionists.
"What, however, is abundantly clear is that if were merely to indulge in some rather smug self-congratulations, we will have entirely missed the point. As many as 27 million people are still thought to be enslaved today, and slavery and trafficking generate billions of pounds worldwide. Perhaps compared to 1807, slavery tip-toes in carpet slippers but it remains a pernicious and all too real contemporary reality."
Picture: Dr Roon Noon, who teaches on the abolition of slavery as part of LJMU's social science programmes, Adam Hochschild and Professor David Alton.
Source: LJMU News Update
Star of anti-slavery film in city
Mar 12 2007
by Caroline Innes, Liverpool Daily Post
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/ic...D9F6F6E917.jpg
ONE of Hollywood’s hottest properties is coming to Liverpool to promote his new film, which explores one man’s struggle to end slavery in Britain.
Fresh from playing Mr Fantastic in blockbuster Fantastic Four, Black Hawk Down star Ioan Gruffudd takes on the role of anti-slavery pioneer William Wilberforce in the historical epic Amazing Grace.
The Welsh actor chose the city for a special preview screening where he will introduce the film with acclaimed director Michael Apted.
Liverpool surpassed both London and Bristol to become Europe’s number one slave port by the 1740s.
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I just picked up on this Associated Press story that ran worldwide in newspapers on March 14, 2007.
Anniversary revives images of slavery
English bicentennial of abolition recalls Liverpool’s role in trade
By ROBERT BARR
LIVERPOOL, England – Beatles lovers who seek out Penny Lane imagine it as that magical place “in my ears and in my eyes, there beneath the blue suburban skies.” But it has a sinister undertone that still reverberates.
The street in Liverpool, hometown of the Fab Four, is named after James Penny, a slave trader and investor in 11 voyages which took 500 to 600 captives at a time to the New World.
Penny was among the many who enriched themselves and their city on human trafficking until the slave trade was abolished 200 years ago. Their ships carried millions of human beings from West Africa to the plantations of the Americas in a triangular trade which also brought profitable cargoes of sugar, tobacco and rum to England.
Liverpool’s rise, says local historian Ray Costello, is summed up in the carving on a bank facade: two Black children supporting Liverpool as Neptune.
”What it really means is that this bank was founded on the slave trade,” Costello said.
It resonates all the more with the approach of the March 25 anniversary of the British parliamentary act that abolished the slave trade in Britain’s colonies 200 years ago – though not slavery itself. Liverpool’s problem is its “hidden history – nobody wants to talk about it,” said Eric Lynch, a Black Liverpudlian who leads walking tours in the west coast city.
However, the past has not gone unacknowledged.
The city council formally apologized in 1999, expressing “shame and remorse for the city’s role in this trade in human misery.”
It has commissioned statues titled “Reconciliation,” two abstract bronze figures embracing, which will be dedicated this year in Richmond, Va., and Benin, a West African port of call for Liverpool’s slave ships.
On Aug. 23, the anniversary of the slave uprising in French-ruled Haiti in 1791, Liverpool will open the International Slavery Museum. Part of its mission is recovering Liverpool’s history, which remains a fraught issue.
Lynch, the tour guide, finds the echoes in the streets named for slave traders – Bamber, Banastre, Cunliffe, Gascoyne, Oldham, Seel, Tarleton; in a balcony railing made of chains by one of the businesses which depended on the trade; in the face of an African woman in the frieze around the ornate Town Hall.
Liverpool council member Barbara Mace last year proposed renaming streets associated with slavery, and was surprised to learn that Penny Lane was among them. After a lively controversy the proposal was withdrawn.
Liverpool was once the home of John Newton, the slave ship captain who became an ardent abolitionist and wrote the hymn “Amazing Grace.”
The abolitionist Thomas Clarkson visited Liverpool in 1787, collecting horrifying stories from sailors and buying tools of the trade: chains, manacles, iron collars and branding irons which made effective publicity for William Wilberforce’s 20-year campaign in Parliament to abolish the trade.
”By the end of the 19 th century, a lot of rich families were trying to sanitize their wealth, and every trace of slavery they got rid of,” said Costello, who has been researching the history of fellow Blacks in his city for nearly half a century.
What Liverpool needs to do, Costello says, is “take off its shades and see the Blacks,” who have been in the city since the 18 th century but still find themselves mistaken for recent immigrants.
Blacks now represent 7 percent of the work force in the city of 450,000.
Because the slaves sailed direct from Africa to the New World, Liverpool saw little of the trade at close quarters. Richard Benjamin, director of the new museum, said that only 11 slaves are known to have been sold in the city. Some slaves who were given their freedom for fighting against the American Revolution made their way to Liverpool, while others came as crewmen on ships, Costello said.
The abolition act in 1807 was a milestone, but Britain waited another 26 years to outlaw slavery in the colonies; the United States followed in 1865 and Brazil in 1888.
Anti-Slavery International, founded by the leaders of Britain’s abolition movement, estimates that 12 million people are in some form of slavery today, as bonded laborers or in the sex trade.
Slavery is now illegal everywhere, said Beth Herzfeld of Anti-Slavery International, but “laws today are not being implemented.”
”We have to not just reflect on the reality and horrors of the slave trade but to see that people power had a very important role in overthrowing the trade, and that people today still have a role to play,” she said.
Liverpool joined the slave trade in 1699 when a ship named Liverpool Merchant put to sea, carrying 220 slaves from West Africa to Barbados. Sir Thomas Johnson, a part-owner of the ship, is known as the founder of modern Liverpool; Sir Thomas Street is named for him.
By 1750, Liverpool had surpassed London and Bristol as a slave-trading port; 45 years later it controlled 80 percent of the British slave trade, representing two-fifths of the European total. In the peak year of 1798, 149 ships set off from Liverpool for Africa, officially with the capacity to carry 53,000 slaves.
By one accounting, Liverpool’s traders transported 1,364,930 Africans in 5,249 voyages between 1699 and 1807.
Africans, often the captives of local chiefs, were paid for with cloth, kitchen pots and pans, muskets, gunpowder, flints, hats, mirrors, candles, beads and brandy.
A page displayed at the trans-Atlantic Slavery Gallery at the Maritime Museum in Liverpool details the profits of the voyage of the Enterprize in 1794. The ship sold 356 slaves and cleared a profit of 10,000 pounds – equivalent to about $2 million today.
It was a brutal trade, killing untold numbers of Africans in slave raids, by disease, shipwreck and mistreatment. Women captives were raped. Ship crews suffered heavy death rates from disease.
Alexander Falconbridge, a Bristol ship captain who became an abolitionist, said slaves on some ships were forced to lie on each other in crowded holds during a voyage of at least six weeks. Writing in 1788, he said, “the floor of their rooms was so covered with blood and mucus ... that it resembled a slaughterhouse. It is not in the power of the human imagination to picture to itself a situation more dreadful and disgusting.”
Some denied it. Robert Norris, a former slave ship captain who was one of Liverpool’s lobbyists in Parliament, claimed that after dinner the slaves aboard ship were given pipes, tobacco and musical instruments, “and when tired of music and dancing, they then go to games of chance.”
Penny, another Liverpool lobbyist, told legislators that slaves slept aboard their ships “better than the gentlemen do on shore.”
One of the worst atrocities was aboard the Liverpool slave ship Zong, which was wracked with disease; Capt. Luke Collingwood ordered the crew to throw 133 sick slaves overboard, then tried to claim against insurance for “loss of merchandise.” The abolitionist Granville Sharp demanded a murder prosecution, but the government’s attorney responded: “It is madness; the Blacks were property.”
The Zong incident was one among many that fired the zeal of abolitionists – a mass movement built on networks of Quakers, with Sharp, Wilberforce and Clarkson in prominent leadership roles.
Josiah Wedgwood, the pottery pioneer, made an engraving of a kneeling slave in chains with the words “am I not a man and a brother?” Reproduced in the thousands on medallions, hatpins and brooches, it was worn by fashionable supporters of the cause.
In retrospect, the attitudes of some abolitionists now appear puzzling. Newton made two slave voyages even after being converted by the “amazing grace ... that saved a wretch like me.”
”During the time I was engaged in the slave trade, I never had the least scruple as to its lawfulness. I was, upon the whole, satisfied with it, as the appointment Providence had marked out for me,” Newton wrote.
However, he added, “I was sometimes shocked with an employment that was perpetually conversant with chains, bolts and shackles.” – (AP)
Stamp release marks delivery from slave trade
Mar 23 2007
by Catherine Jones, Liverpool Echo
ANTI-slave trade campaigners have been honoured on a new set of stamps to mark the 200th anniversary of its abolition this weekend.
The Royal Mail chose Liverpool to unveil the six stamps - the second time the city has hosted a national stamp launch this year.
Tony Tibbles, keeper of the Merseyside Maritime Museum, was commissioned to write the presentation pack for the special stamps, and was one of several experts Royal Mail consulted for the issue.
He is part of the team developing the new International Slavery Museum.
The stamps combine contemporary portraits of key individuals set against backgrounds linked to their work.
Source: icLiverpool
Long time no post.
Kev asked me yesterday to post about me attending the prem of Amazing Grace last week, I've written a very long post in my Live Journal and it's quicker if I direct you there. I will warn you now that I am a fangirl of Ioan's (for about 8 years or so) and that the post contains gushing. You have been warned!!! :unibrow:
Click here to go to my LiveJournal post.
I also have pictures from the night. All of them are clickable thumbnails. I didn't take the pictures, my friend took them. My camera conked out on me. :disgust:
http://thumbs.villagephotos.com/19747293.jpg
That's Ioan over my shoulder with some woman from Radio Merseyside and someone from the Echo/Daily Post.
http://thumbs.villagephotos.com/19747295.jpg
Ioan signing a card that I was sent from a friend that she'd got attending the showing of the film at the Santa Barbara Film Festival.
http://thumbs.villagephotos.com/19747296.jpg
Ioan and me. GUH! http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/166789/thud.gif http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/166789/swoon.gifhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/166789/sm192.gif
http://thumbs.villagephotos.com/19747297.jpg
I don't know what I'm saying. Maybe "Phowar" hehehehe :unibrow:
lol, thanks Ceri, much appreciated :PDT11. I bet you were made up to say the least....
I'm gonna read your journal now...
^^The face on that woman, how jealous is she?!!^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbuttons
Why was Dean Gaffney there? :unibrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbuttons
:eek: Oh Ioan's much more handsome than Dean. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kev
LOL - I thought you were gonna strike me down for that one :PDT10, glad u had a good night. Any others u are planning to go to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbuttons
I attended the Cardiff premiere of Ioan's film, King Arthur 2 years ago. If there's one for Fantastic4 2 in Cardiff and I'm not in work then I might HAVE to go!
Not that I'm a stalker or anything! :ninja:
If u are caught in the grounds of his home, I don't know u, ok? :unibrow::PDT11:PDT10Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbuttons
Will the new museum have a section on the Cornish slaves who were captured by Islamic ships?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Remember shame of city’s slave trade
Mar 24 2007
by Michelle Fiddler, Liverpool Echo
MERSEYSIDERS were gathering at Liverpool cathedral today for a service to mark the 200th anniversary of abolition of the slave trade.
The 11.30am Service of Penitence, open to all, is one of a series of weekend events to commemorate the event.
On March 25, 1807, the British Parliament passed the Slave Trade Act which abolished the trade in the British Empire.
Liverpool grew rich on the proceeds of slavery and in 1999 the city made a formal apology for its role.
The Bishop of Liverpool, Dr James Jones, is due to preach the sermon The Real Blasphemy at this morning’s service with other Merseyside church leaders, including the Archbishop of Liverpool, the Most Reverend Patrick Kelly, in attendance.
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"Anthony's murder was caused by legacy of slavery"
Mar 24 2007
by Nicola Rowlands, icNorthWest
THE Bishop of Liverpool believes that the murder of black teenager Anthony Walker was caused by the legacy of slavery.
James Jones made the statement during a service earlier today (Saturday) to mark the 200th anniversary of the decision to abolish slavery in the British Empire.
In front of a 400-strong congregation at Liverpool Cathedral, Bishop Jones said: “As I have immersed myself in the history of slavery, the more I believe that our racism is rooted in the dehumanising treatment of black people by white people during the slave trade.”
The Bishop also read out an account given to Parliament by John Newton, the former slave ship commander-turned-Abolitionist. It highlighted the practice of “jointing” in which slaves were slowly hacked to death with an axe and their body parts thrown into the midst of other captives as a warning.
Bishop Jones added: “In this very cathedral 18 months ago we gathered to bid farewell to Anthony Walker, whose murder, also with an axe, was driven by the same brutal racism.
Story continues...
Oh what rubbish! It's a fear of those that are different that's to blame, and hence gays and disableds suffer the same. And the church is more to blame than anyone for instilling fear in people, and for condemning those that are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
I wish people would stop clinging onto the slave trade and move on. We all know the history, we all know there were black slave traders. It's just your classic human greed.
As the church has apologised for its role in the slave trade perhaps in 200 years they will apologise for what they have done to gay people.
I doubt it. And even then they'd have to apologise to what they've done to white heterosexual persons as well. I was once a confirmed Christian, but I 'saw the light' and got out. Whilst I don't mind people choosing to believe in something, I hate the way religion can be used to force people into a way of thinking, and into unjust guilt and Christ know's what (ha ha!).
Anyway...
The Bishop of Liverpool = Retarded.
In the past ten years or so the study and explanation of the Slave Trade has been drawn into sharper focus and of course the whole period of British history is quite deplorable.
The history of black people came into sharp focus because of the raising of black consciousness in the USA in the 60's and 70's, culminating inAlex Haliley's "Roots" and every black person in America adopting an African name rather than their "slave name".
In Liverpool there seems to be a reliance on promoting the slave trade, becuase it is an "easy" history to tell , it was so obviously "bad" time in the history of the UK. I've even heard stories that some history tours in liveprool at the moment have been pointing out the slave rings down at the albert dock, and the black men in chains on exchange flags are all to do with the slave trade. The rings were for tying up ships and the black slaves are in fact french prisoners of war.
It was **** for everyone then, black white chinese.......life was short and brutal......
There is also the argument about whether we (white people) shoudl apologise for what happened and whethe we should feel guilty or guilty. I would feel guilty if I was the heir to the Chatsworth estate or Lord Bath, but the strange truth is my background means that we won't be celebrating the bicentenial of the emancipation of my ancestors for quite a while yet. UK indigenous (and I am including all races here didn't get the vote until the late 19th C), and the working, housing and health conditions for theworkign classes in Industrial Revolution Britian were probably worse than living and workign on a plantation in the West Indies.
Because we are looking back at all this with more than rose coloured specs, as though all the white people in the UK were as emancipated and as well off then as we are now, which defintitly wasnt the case.
Another truism is that a slave as "property" might have been better looked after than employees, after all if you did work thme to death then you ahd to pay for a new one, you work an employee to death then there were plenty more factory fodder in Victorian Britain to replace. This aspect of victorian and pre georgian britain isnt talked about as indigenous working class people havent been radicalized pr theri consciounous rasied for a long long long time.
There aren't many "good" stories told in all this slavery discussion at the moment, and surely there must have been.
The bad stories are a very lazy way of telling history. I'm offering challenge, and this came to me the other day, has anyone ever seen a plan of the layout of a slave ship other than the one of the vessel "The Brookes". I remember seeing it in a book over forty years ago when we were studying the triangulalr trade at primary school. the same plan is on the display in the Maritime Museum , it has regularly been used in TV programmes about the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery.
The planof the Brookes was actually originally published by the abolishionists movement in 1789 to forward and support their case, it's actually a piece of spin. Let's put it this way if you were shackeld together for up to eight weeks unable to move wouldnt you have a severe case of muscle wastage, and be virtually worthless as a commodity to sell on.
As stated previously I am not trying to demean or understate the scale and evilness of the Slave Trade, what I am trying to say is that maybe as in the case of the Brookes, what appears on the face of it to be a fact, may not be the reality.
I am more concerned that well meaning and guilt ridden middle class white folk who work for the BBC and Museum's on Merseyside stop trying to make the us all feel guilty about this. I dotn even mind apologising but I'm apologising for the British aristocracy and The Church of England, not for anything my ancestors never actually did.
It would ebe worth lookign at the relationships between cotton workers in the southern states of america in the 1870'sand the plight of the lancashire cotton mill workers of the same period- lookignat pay life expectancy and living conditions. Maybe even start a campaign to get the Artistocracy to apologise the working classes for teh Industrial revolution, that wont happen because it's not balck and white enough.
http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/his...ictorian1.html
Life expectancy for males was as young as 17......35,000 children employed this was in 1830 23 years after the abolition of slavery, and in lancashire
Much the same in the coal mining industry too. Child labour in mines ( underground) was stopped in the early 1840s from memory but this still meant that when they reached 12 years, they were classed as adult and went underground usually as door keepers sitting in the dark operating the ventilation flaps in the tunnels.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveFaragher
One minor point, the slave trade stopped in 1807. Slavery as such was abolished theoretically, in the British Empire, in about the mid 1830s. In practice it still occurred in places like the sugar plantations of Queensland, Australia into the 1860s or so.
Life was brutal for anybody who wasn't well to do until the twentieth century. Just read Dickens or Hardy or other writers who wrote about social conditions in the nineteenth century. I am sure life for indentured servants was little better than it was for slaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
Chris
This argument about the Victorian working-class being treated as bad as slaves leaves me rather uneasy.
I get the impression that we are even being told the slaves were perhaps in a better position in some respects.
Let's not forget the major difference here is choice.
The slaves had no choice in the matter.
Admittedly the working-class didn't have much choice, but there is still a vast difference between the two groups.
Pleae stop making excuses for the slave trade.
I was trying to make the point that everyone was getting shafted by the Englsih Aristocracy and the people who started the Industrial revolution, we are also looking back at the 18th and 19th from a blinkered (21stC) perspective that people who worked had any choice, they were as much chattels as slaves were.
I call it the Charlotte Bronte effect, we all hypnotised into thinking we all lived in a bloody Jane Eyre, genteel, elegant and a rural idyll, when in fact the vast majority of folk lived jsut over the hill form the Eyre's in a ****ty hovel, dying of choldera, TB or just starving to death.
I am also critical of the way museums and to some extent the BBC have been moralising and over simplifying everything over the anniversary, and as a working class bloke I hate being preached at or castigated by the sons and daughters of the people or class who instigated the atrocities in the first place.
I hate middle or upper class angst being shifted onto everyone elses shoulders, especially mine.
It's purely a class argument I'm tryng to put here. I hate what happened during the time of the slave trade.
Perhaps the media and politicians shoudl be interested in sorting out modern slave trading from eastern europe and china, otherwise lessons arent being learnt from talkign about the past.
I understand what you're saying, Steve and agree with most of it.
In the 1950s (when I had no choice) I had to go to church 3 times each Sunday, and soon realised that it was all a con, designed by the clergy and the wealthy to keep us in our place.
"All things bright and beautiful" even says: "The rich man in his castle. The poor man at his gate. God made them high and lowly and ordered their estate."
Of course these were still the remnants of the Victorian 'Paternal' society, which in itself was morally wrong.
I think what I'm trying to say is that there is still a vast difference between servants and slaves.
Because true slavery still exists in various parts of the world, and needs eradicating.
When Muslims (who traded slaves long before and long after anyone in Britain, who after all, were behind the abolition in the end) and when Romans (who threw Christians to the lions) apologise, then so will I - maybe. But as Steve says, it won't be on behalf of any of my ancestors so it'll be hollow.
It's also interesting to note that a scholar who rang into Radio Merseyside pointed out that Liverpool's trade wealth with Ireland and the Isle of Man (of all places) far outweighed any profits made from the slave trade at the time. Source: LRO (A project apparently undertaken by him when told by an angry slave protester to go and get his facts straight)
What worries me is - what follows?
Is it the blaim claim again. And who do we make the cheque out to?
Blame even :shock:
I think we also had a lot of trade with north germany and the baltic too, (after all that's were Lob Skause came from) it would be interesting to see what the percentages of trade from 1700 to 1900 with different parts of the world were, especially after 1807, anyone know?
Maybe the italian government should apologise for killing all the druids on anglesey.....o..but you've got to ask yourself if there was any reparation for the slave trade how on earth would you allocate the compo.
If you are half Irish half African then you've cracked it on both counts, famine and slavery compo.
Im half manx half yorkshire so I wouldnt get a sniff unless I get a trip claim in agaisnt the corpy
What happened on Anglesey ? I havn't heard about this.