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Most People are still ashamed to say they live in L8. That's basically the root of the problem. Estate agents are still quite reluctant to tell you if a property is in L8 too. I know this from experience!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
I am from L8, and am proud of it...
Dear ChrisQuote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Mossley Hill per se has no defined boundaries but spreads over a number of townships including Garston within which of course lies Aigburth.
SS Matthew and James Mossley Hill Church parish boundary extends just beyond Aigburth Hall Rd, so yes you are right in one sense to say you lived in Mossley Hill. Of course you also lived in Aigburth !!! See church parish boundary web site link below
http://www.acny.org.uk/parish.php?p=22/31
Best wishes
taffy
Liverpool would be such a dull city without L8. You're right to be proud of it. I hate the way LCC has blocked off lots of roads so that you now have endless cul-de-sacs in some parts of L8. It's just starting to get over having a 35 year long bad hair day. A few years from now it will be back where it belongs - at the heart of the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
There is of course another L8 on the other side of Upper Parliament St. To mask its L8 post code, the estate agents call this the Georgian Quarter though most of the houses were not built in Georgian Times. This part of L8 is not in Toxteth of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
Interesting to note that Wallasey's first two pics (the classiest ones) aren't officially in Aigburth :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
Yes this irony did occur to me too !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
And no one who lives there calls it 'the Georgian Quarter' or even its original name, Canning (although I think there is a Canning website run by a Canning enthusiast). Most locals refer to the street they live in to describe where they come from, e.g. 'I'm from Catherine Street.'Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
http://canning.merseyworld.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Awww! I can't win ere! I am going by my "Illustrated History of Liverpool's Suburbs" which has a great image of Sefton Park Lake in the Aigburth section taken from just infront of those houses in the second image! It's a cracking book by the way if ever any of you see it on sale!Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
Anyway; I quite like the back jigger image; I took it because the sun was beating off the backs of those houses; was a great sight!
Anyone got any images of Fulwood Park? I would go tomorrow but I have lost me Bus Pass (Student Pass before people go thinking that I am 80 odd!) Think I know where it is but might have to start buying Weekly's! Oh dear!
You don't need to be 80 to get a bus pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallasey
I've got one
...at the juvenile age of 60. :)
I took this book back to the booksellers and got my money back. I found so many errors I didn't think the publishers had a right to my money. They also would not withdraw the book pending correction of the errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallasey
It does trip up sometimes but it's still a good read all the same! I like the Yates and Perry Map from 1768, just shows that the city is much older than people think it is!Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
A picture of the Ultimate Chippy Steve's!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Nice pics, not sure about the blurbs on the 'burbs though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallasey
You're right, most have been converted to flats or hotels. Not many have been demolished.Quote:
Aigburth Drive All the properties lining Aigburth Drive are different and were designed to show off how wealthy you really were. Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished.
This is misleading. This is the heart of Aigburth Vale. If you live further up Aigburth Road, you are more likely to use the shops at Mersey Road, or drive to Tescos in Allerton than come here. There are one or two restaurants in the Vale but most people would go to Lark Lane to eat out, so I'm not sure how accurate it is to call this place the 'heart' when officially it marks the beginning of Aigburth!Quote:
Ashfield Road/Aigburth Road The heart of Aigburth is arguably here at the bottom of Ashfield Road where it meets Aigburth Road and Jericho Lane. As previously stated, the original village which may have been Anglo Saxon will have been situated in the vicinity of the Oskelesbrook which would have had a wooded vale. Aigburth itself means "The place of Oaks" so this location is perfectly suitable for it's name.
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8...1221097vx6.jpg
It is not accurate to say that Aigburth Road depicted in this photograph has ever been deserted! It has always been busy (perhaps more so when Speke and Garston were full of real factories as opposed to people answering phones at the present time). If you are talking about Queens Drive (Mossley Hill), Mossley Hill Drive and Aigburth Drive once being deserted but now used as rat runs for commuters you would be right - but the photograph shown is of Aigburth Road.Quote:
Aigburth Road This was one of John Brodie's avenues which he built to improve links around the city. Queens Drive was meant to have a rather impressive terminus on Aigburth Road but this was never realised. Now, these roads which were once deserted, have come into their own as people commute out of the city to the likes of the Estuary Park as well as into the City Centre.
Apologies if I sound critical. I think it's great that you are doing this but I'm wondering if you may need to be a little bit more careful with how you source your material if you are going to put it on the net. A rule of thumb might be never to make strong claims unless you have robust evidence to back them up. Another way around this might be to talk about 'my impressions of Aigburth'.
I'm surprised you have any local history books left! They are all extremely anecdotal. That's what I like about them :celb (23):Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
A good pinch of salt and they're fine.
what were these errors taffy?Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy
Don't worry about it; You will obviously know more than I do because you live and experiance this part of the city more than I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Where would you suggest I got some robust evidence from? I would use Wikipeadia but that information is also questionable sometimes!
Wikipedia is decidedly dodgy when it comes to either Aigburth or Toxteth. As the founder of Wilipedia is quoted as saying, you should not rely on this information to be the absolute truth. The therory is that with many people editing it, the truth will eventually emerge. In the meantime, beware !!Quote:
Originally Posted by wallasey
Cannot remember them now really. It was about a year or so ago when I first bought the book. I seem to remember problems with the Allerton and Toxteth information. There may be others which I forget. I originally bought it for the old photos in it but on reading the text I became sufficiently annoyed with the errors that I didn't think the publishers deserved my money, so I took the book back. My money was refunded without question.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissInformed
Quite honestly I think your pictures speak for themselves and don't really need to be grounded in a version of local history. If you enjoy giving an historical slant, why not cite your source? My favourite writer of local history is Derek Whale. Avoid Wikipedia under pain of death.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallasey
Also, it can be useful to take pictures away from the main roads. Often a main road is not typical of the local area. Avoid generalisations. If you think about your own area, it's probably multi-faceted. All areas of Liverpool are like this. So, for example, if writing about L8, don't reduce it to Park Road or Princes Road, get to know Cockburn Street, Windsor Street, Catherine Street, Lodge Lane and Hartington Road, Windermere Terrace, Sunnyside, High Park Street's monumental buildings. If writing about L17, differentiate the Aigburth Road area from St Michaels-in the-Hamlet, correctly position Lark Lane and its interesting sidestreets and capture the changing seasons of Sefton Park, Croxteth and Greenbank Drives. Differentiate between the east and west sides of Aigburth Road north of the Vale, explore Fulwood Park and Otterspool, discover the hidden (and lost) orchards at the bottom of Mersey Road. Get to know the river from this side of the water and the remains of the festival site. If writing about L18 ...
Dear Wallasey.
Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.
We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.
Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
Libraries are the places for original research.
Hi Wallasey and PhilipG
I agree totally about the dangers of relying on Wikipedia. To have an encyclopedia to which absolutely anyone can contribute is inviting trouble and much duff information and biased opinion has been posted on Wikipedia in the guise of providing the facts.
Chris
I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.
This is what Wallasey said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
"Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."
I find nothing wrong with that.
"or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.
As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.
Off the top of my head....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Belem Tower was demolished and replaced by one of the first tower blocks.
If that's the only one, it still counts as "or even demolition".
Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?
Are you sure?:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
OMG, Jericho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.
When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.
Chris
That block of flats is set so far back from Aigburth Drive in it's own little close (Belem Close) that I don't think you're being fair! However, I'll accept it. Belem Tower sounds rather fancy. What was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
There are a few post-war flats either side of Linnet Lane (Lark Lane end). Maybe they stem from war damage?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge
Properties that had to be demolished as a result of war damage shouldn't count in this argument! :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
For not wanting to start WW3;
When I was talking about how some properties have been demolished, I was refering to the properties on the other side of the Gatehouse which is actually Mossley Hill Drive so I apologies there.
I am actually having to do my best with the resources I have. Most of my Liverpool and Wirral books are actually at my parents house in Northumberland (where I lived for 17 years) so sourcing out info from literature is difficult. What normally happens is that I describe what is going on in the image so quite clearly in some respects, the buildings have been renovated. The restaurant (not imaged) more prominantly proves this as no doubt it was probably a private residence.
Many thanks to Chirs George and PhillipG and I fully take on board what Jericho has said, nobody likes innaccuracies at the best of times!
All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.
Thanks for this Phil. I didn't know Norman Shaw designed this house. It was built for H Douglas Horsfall and was named after the previous family home in Everton. Douglas Horsfall built St Agnes Church Toxteth Park on Ullet Rd and its daughter church in Lidderdale Rd, L15, St Pancras, Toxteth Park. Later he also built St Paul's Stoneycroft and owned the tight of presentation of St Catherine, Abercromby Sq.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
Weren't Sydenham House, Buckingham house etc., and St Hilda's School built on property that fronted Ullet Road? People often forget just how classy Ullet Road used to be or indeed Croxteth Road for that matter. I can't believe that those flats overlooking Princes Park (off Ullet Road, just up from the Inglenook) were allowed to be built. There used to be at least a couple of great houses in that spot or thereabouts but sadly they were allowed to slip into terminal decay. Vaguely recall seeing the old gate posts still standing last time I looked but that might have been wishful thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipG
There was a recreation ground between Holt House and Mere Bank, and a plot big enough for one house on the other side of Mere Bank.
These were the only open sites on that side of Ullet Road.
All the rest of that side (including the sites of the post-war tower blocks) was occupied by large Victorian Houses.
The new flats by Prince's Park were built on the site of Park Nook.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxmoly...7594541447897/
Still looking through more but theres two of what I tried with my Sony.
Might redo the church pic though.
Good work, Max. The church pics look great to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Chris
There a couple of newer properties around Sefton Park, between Lark Lane and the Alicia Hotel...Bloomfield Green, for one and some ugly new low level brick building. Maps around 100 years ago show large houses around Bloomfield Green.
Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park? :unibrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm NZ