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Thread: ELEANOR RIGBY - What's the truth?

  1. #1
    Chris48
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    Default ELEANOR RIGBY - What's the truth?

    McCartney says that the song title was made up from the names above shops that he saw in London. Yesterday I was at a family grave at St Peters in Woolton and thought I would have a quick look at the grave of Eleanor Rigby. It seems to me that it is too much of a coincidence that the song title was not taken from the grave in view of the fact that 1. St Peters has a strong association with The Beatles/Quarrymen and 2. Very close to ERs grave is the grave of somebody called McKenzie (as in Father McKenzie). So is McCartney telling the truth and if not why? Could it be a decent ruse on McCartneys part to stop beatles fans wrecking the grave site?
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    The words were not all McCartney's. The words were banded about amongst them all and changed occasionally and Eleanor Rigby was chosen at the last minute.

    They may have met at the church hall, however it was not their haunt as such. There may have been something latent in his mind from seeing the name 9 years before, although not conscious of recalling the names(s).
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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Anyone who has studied genealogy knows that names repeat and repeat in different generations and different locations. I think the odds are that it is sheer coincidence that the name on the grave and the name in the song are the same.

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    For the record. Paul says the Eleanor part was named after Eleanor Bron who was appearing in their film Help.

    Rigby was the name taken from above a shop in Bristol where his girlfriend Jane Asher was appearing.

    Only he truly knows of course but it does seem a very big co-incidence. John Lennon was also a choir boy at St. Peters so the area which is only facing the hall where they met will be well known to them.
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    Senior Member julieoapw's Avatar
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    McCartney says that he always thought he got the name from Eleanor Bron and the shop but he now says that its quite possible that he may have subconsciously remembered it from seeing the grave all those years before. I don't believe there was any attempt by him to deceive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieoapw View Post
    McCartney says that he always thought he got the name from Eleanor Bron and the shop but he now says that its quite possible that he may have subconsciously remembered it from seeing the grave all those years before. I don't believe there was any attempt by him to deceive.
    Hello Julie

    Well certainly, it could have happened in this sort of scenario:

    Paul and John and the boys are lounging around in the cemetery smoking ciggies. Paul reads the name "Eleanor Rigby" on the gravestone and thinks, "That's a snappy name." Forgets all about it, then years later writes a song, the title of which comes from Eleanor Bron and the Rigby shop in Bristol, and it's a great combination, making for a striking name, "Eleanor Rigby" -- though he doesn't recall at that moment that he had seen the name years before in Liverpool. . .

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    Chris48
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    Not convinced. Somebody get McCartney on here to explain himself.


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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris48 View Post
    Not convinced. Somebody get McCartney on here to explain himself.
    Mmmmm. Well you know the creative process is a complex thing, and just as I outlined it, it's possible that McCartney circa 1956 saw the name in the cemetery at St. Peter's Church and thought that "Eleanor Rigby" was a great name, and he stored it in his subconscious but on a conscious level forgot about it.

    Just think about the life the man has lived -- it was a full ten years later that he came to write the famous song.

    And in the meanwhile there was Hamburg, changes in the lineup of the Quarrymen, the change of name to The Silver Beatles, playing in Hamburg, the death of Stuart Sutcliffe, playing at the Cavern and other clubs round Liverpool, being picked up by Brian Epstein in the early sixties as "The Beatles," the first singles and LPs, America, the world, etc, etc, etc.

    Frankly I think it's a bit much to expect the man to remember that he had actually somehow remembered the name from a gravestone that he had read back in Liverpool years before, after all that water had gone under the bridge. But maybe you yourself realise that, Chris, yes?

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    Senior Member verdi's Avatar
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    Not that I am a song writer, but I remeber something a while ago, about the Jackie and Bridie song ' Don't want to go to Kirkby' any way the thing was where was Back Buchannon Street? There was none, it was made up to fit the song by sylable. So El-ean-or Rig-by, fits the song, unlike Cill-a Black- ! If you get my meaning. Another thing, as a kid I used to play in the cemetary at the back of the Cathedral, must have read the names thousands of times, but can't remember a one.

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    That's how Macca said he figures it could have happened. The subconsious mind is a powerful thing and being subconscious, naturally he wouldn't remember it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hello Julie

    Well certainly, it could have happened in this sort of scenario:

    Paul and John and the boys are lounging around in the cemetery smoking ciggies. Paul reads the name "Eleanor Rigby" on the gravestone and thinks, "That's a snappy name." Forgets all about it, then years later writes a song, the title of which comes from Eleanor Bron and the Rigby shop in Bristol, and it's a great combination, making for a striking name, "Eleanor Rigby" -- though he doesn't recall at that moment that he had seen the name years before in Liverpool. . .

    Chris

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    Chris48
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    Maybe its just another case of made up history. In the town where I live, the claim to fame here is that Paul Simon wrote the song "Homeward bound" while waiting for a train at the railway station. They even put up a brass plaque at the said station (that got stolen) anouncing that "this is where Paul Simon wrote the song" etc. It was true that Simon came to the town and stayed for a while in th 50s playing folk clubs locally. Anyway, Simon was Interviewed recently on the Beeb and was specifically asked about this song and asked if he really did write the song at Widnes North Railway station. He said he didn't know. He said it could have been Widnes, Wigan, Warrington or even Bradford as he travelled all around! Maybe we think its true because we want to believe its true, even though maybe it's not.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris48 View Post
    Maybe its just another case of made up history. In the town where I live, the claim to fame here is that Paul Simon wrote the song "Homeward bound" while waiting for a train at the railway station. They even put up a brass plaque at the said station (that got stolen) anouncing that "this is where Paul Simon wrote the song" etc. It was true that Simon came to the town and stayed for a while in th 50s playing folk clubs locally. Anyway, Simon was Interviewed recently on the Beeb and was specifically asked about this song and asked if he really did write the song at Widnes North Railway station. He said he didn't know. He said it could have been Widnes, Wigan, Warrington or even Bradford as he travelled all around! Maybe we think its true because we want to believe its true, even though maybe it's not.
    It was mentioned on Parkinson to him, 10, 15, 20 years back and he did not deny it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    It was mentioned on Parkinson to him, 10, 15, 20 years back and he did not deny it.
    He did not confirm it on the BBC radio interview he made either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by verdi View Post
    Not that I am a song writer, but I remeber something a while ago, about the Jackie and Bridie song ' Don't want to go to Kirkby' any way the thing was where was Back Buchannon Street? There was none, it was made up to fit the song by sylable. So El-ean-or Rig-by, fits the song, unlike Cill-a Black- ! If you get my meaning. Another thing, as a kid I used to play in the cemetary at the back of the Cathedral, must have read the names thousands of times, but can't remember a one.
    Paul has said that the working title of "Yesterday" was "Scrambled Eggs" so yes, the syllable count definitely is a factor here. As for Paul Simon getting the inspiration for "Homeward Bound" at Widnes North Railway station, I had heard that story as early as the Seventies, so possibly he said it in an interview somewhere closer to the time that he wrote the song in the Sixties when the memory was fresher in his mind. On the other hand, as he said in the later interview, he travelled around a lot to other northern towns. And I know as a writer, I might have an idea in one location but I am still working on it, and getting additional ideas, as I travel elsewhere.

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