nope, don't remember it at all .
Just tried getting the bearing from the street names I could almost make out against google maps
Some old Liverpool pics I found
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The 'Northern Hospital' was covered on one of Colin's earlier threads here:
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...-Hospital-1963
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I think Great Howard Street is at the bottom of the picture?
Also, here it is over the Google Earth view [below].
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.
If you mean the square one in my post - that isn't Great Howard Street. That is Eastern State Penitentiary, Pennsylvania USA. I used the image as an example of a hub-and-spoke prison.
The general concensus is that the Eastern State Penitentiary (built in 1829) was the first of this type. Dazza's research clearly shows this claim to be erreneous as Great Howard Street Gaol is clearly a hub-and-spoke design and pre-dates the Eastern State Penitentiary by at least twenty years.
According to David Brazendales notes in 'Georgian Liverpool a guide to the city in 1797' John Hope was given the task of preparing plans for a gaol based on Londons Newgate - just having been rebuilt in 1770. Newgate was not built as a hub-and-spoke prison so I can only assume that Hope's initial design was rejected for Howards design - although this is not made clear in the text.
I'm having difficulty finding an earlier prison with the hub-and-spoke design... so perhaps Liverpool really does have the claim to the worlds first 'modern prison'. I mentioned the 'separate-state' system before, and can find no mention of this sytem relating to Great Howard Street.
Notice how the Leeds/Liverpool canal comes all the way to Leeds st with branches off down Old Hall st with barge berthing points off it. It now only goes to the rear of the Eldonian Village Hall off Burlington St. Here is a 1902 pic of the removal of one of the hump back bridges which went over the canal at Old Hall st. (LRO)
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Great photo Ged,
Here's the 1848-64 OS map [courtesy of LRO] showing it. The "Old Hall Street Bridge" connected "Old Hall Street Basin" to "Clarke's Basin". The map shows "Gt Howard Street" passing over it back then.
Also, I've plotted on the position of the Great Howard Street "Borough Gaol".
"Leeds Street" as shown here is not the same one we're all familiar with. This one was later renamed "Old Leeds Street" and still exists. The "Leeds Street" of today would be opposite where "Gibraltar Row" is shown on the map.
The Northern Hospital listed here [opp. "Paisley Street"] is an earlier building to the one shown in Colin's thread.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.
Great map Dazza. Great to put an actually location to the picture and vice versa.
Interestingly, Hugh Hollinghurst writing in John Foster and Sons, Kings of Georgian Liverpool, says that "in 1777 the prison reformer John Howard had given advice on a design for a new gaol in Liverpool based on the recently constructed Newgate prison in London...James Picton attributes the eventual design for the prison to John Foster [Senior] although Mr Blackburne, a London architect, may have been involved. [Also] The firm Foster and Son was involved in the construction work in 1786", p.11. Odd that John Hope is not mentioned here?
Liverpool has two historic sites that are peculiarly French - the Borough Gaol, where up to 4,000 French prisoners of war were held from 1793, and St John Gardens [formally cemetery] where many were eventually buried - due to the poor conditions they experienced in the gaol.
I suspect many were picked up by Liverpool Privateers and brought back to the port?
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.
French Napoleonic prisoners of war built some of the dock road walls which are still in situ. There is a plaque in St. Johns gardens by Sculptor Herbert Tyson Smith which mentions the prisoners of war buried there.
"French prisoners" [whilst in gaol] according to James Stonehouse writing in Recollections of Old Liverpool says that "I once saw a ship made by one of them - an exquisite specimen of ingenuity and craftsmanship. The ropes, which were spun to the proper sizes, were made of the prisoner's wife's hair." The ship's model below is in the MMM, and the picture is courtesy of them.
They also put on theatre productions, made furniture and other articles in exchange for money to ease the burden of life in the gaol.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.
Does anyone have any information on the gaol that was located in or near Russel Street! this was supposed to have housed french prisoners of war, and may have accounted for them being buried in St Johns Garden, given the location?
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