Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35

Thread: Walton Gaol

  1. #16
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crosby
    Posts
    2,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robbo176 View Post
    I've got it ....it says goal instead of gaol haha!!!
    Ha, it took me years to figure, they were actually different words, as in Walton goal,and scoring a gaol

  2. #17
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crosby
    Posts
    2,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scouse smurf View Post
    I assume it was pretty much opposite the costco car park ?
    Yeh,next to the Northern hospital,if you remember that?

  3. #18
    Smurf Member scouse smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bootle
    Age
    50
    Posts
    933

    Default

    nope, don't remember it at all .

    Just tried getting the bearing from the street names I could almost make out against google maps


  4. #19
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crosby
    Posts
    2,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scouse smurf View Post
    nope, don't remember it at all .

    Just tried getting the bearing from the street names I could almost make out against google maps
    The "Northern" was where the car showroom is now,on Leeds st corner,and the gaol,was next door,along Great howard st.

  5. #20
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,131
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    The 'Northern Hospital' was covered on one of Colin's earlier threads here:

    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...-Hospital-1963

    I think Great Howard Street is at the bottom of the picture?






    Also, here it is over the Google Earth view [below].
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  6. #21
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crosby
    Posts
    2,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    The 'Northern Hospital' was covered on one of Colin's earlier threads here:

    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...-Hospital-1963

    I think Great Howard Street is at the bottom of the picture?






    Also, here it is over the Google Earth view [below].
    Yeh,that's right,good pic'!

  7. #22
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    384
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    If you mean the square one in my post - that isn't Great Howard Street. That is Eastern State Penitentiary, Pennsylvania USA. I used the image as an example of a hub-and-spoke prison.

    The general concensus is that the Eastern State Penitentiary (built in 1829) was the first of this type. Dazza's research clearly shows this claim to be erreneous as Great Howard Street Gaol is clearly a hub-and-spoke design and pre-dates the Eastern State Penitentiary by at least twenty years.

    According to David Brazendales notes in 'Georgian Liverpool a guide to the city in 1797' John Hope was given the task of preparing plans for a gaol based on Londons Newgate - just having been rebuilt in 1770. Newgate was not built as a hub-and-spoke prison so I can only assume that Hope's initial design was rejected for Howards design - although this is not made clear in the text.

    I'm having difficulty finding an earlier prison with the hub-and-spoke design... so perhaps Liverpool really does have the claim to the worlds first 'modern prison'. I mentioned the 'separate-state' system before, and can find no mention of this sytem relating to Great Howard Street.

  8. #23
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Here, there & everywhere.
    Posts
    7,197

    Default

    Notice how the Leeds/Liverpool canal comes all the way to Leeds st with branches off down Old Hall st with barge berthing points off it. It now only goes to the rear of the Eldonian Village Hall off Burlington St. Here is a 1902 pic of the removal of one of the hump back bridges which went over the canal at Old Hall st. (LRO)




    Uploaded with ImageShack.us



    .
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  9. #24
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,131
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Notice how the Leeds/Liverpool canal comes all the way to Leeds st with branches off down Old Hall st with barge berthing points off it. It now only goes to the rear of the Eldonian Village Hall off Burlington St. Here is a 1902 pic of the removal of one of the hump back bridges which went over the canal at Old Hall st. (LRO)




    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
    Great photo Ged,

    Here's the 1848-64 OS map [courtesy of LRO] showing it. The "Old Hall Street Bridge" connected "Old Hall Street Basin" to "Clarke's Basin". The map shows "Gt Howard Street" passing over it back then.

    Also, I've plotted on the position of the Great Howard Street "Borough Gaol".

    "Leeds Street" as shown here is not the same one we're all familiar with. This one was later renamed "Old Leeds Street" and still exists. The "Leeds Street" of today would be opposite where "Gibraltar Row" is shown on the map.

    The Northern Hospital listed here [opp. "Paisley Street"] is an earlier building to the one shown in Colin's thread.

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  10. #25
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Here, there & everywhere.
    Posts
    7,197

    Default

    Great map Dazza. Great to put an actually location to the picture and vice versa.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  11. #26
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,131
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    According to David Brazendales notes in 'Georgian Liverpool a guide to the city in 1797' John Hope was given the task of preparing plans for a gaol based on Londons Newgate - just having been rebuilt in 1770. Newgate was not built as a hub-and-spoke prison so I can only assume that Hope's initial design was rejected for Howards design - although this is not made clear in the text.
    Interestingly, Hugh Hollinghurst writing in John Foster and Sons, Kings of Georgian Liverpool, says that "in 1777 the prison reformer John Howard had given advice on a design for a new gaol in Liverpool based on the recently constructed Newgate prison in London...James Picton attributes the eventual design for the prison to John Foster [Senior] although Mr Blackburne, a London architect, may have been involved. [Also] The firm Foster and Son was involved in the construction work in 1786", p.11. Odd that John Hope is not mentioned here?

    Liverpool has two historic sites that are peculiarly French - the Borough Gaol, where up to 4,000 French prisoners of war were held from 1793, and St John Gardens [formally cemetery] where many were eventually buried - due to the poor conditions they experienced in the gaol.

    I suspect many were picked up by Liverpool Privateers and brought back to the port?
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  12. #27
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Here, there & everywhere.
    Posts
    7,197

    Default

    French Napoleonic prisoners of war built some of the dock road walls which are still in situ. There is a plaque in St. Johns gardens by Sculptor Herbert Tyson Smith which mentions the prisoners of war buried there.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  13. #28
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,131
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    French Napoleonic prisoners of war built some of the dock road walls which are still in situ. There is a plaque in St. Johns gardens by Sculptor Herbert Tyson Smith which mentions the prisoners of war buried there.
    "French prisoners" [whilst in gaol] according to James Stonehouse writing in Recollections of Old Liverpool says that "I once saw a ship made by one of them - an exquisite specimen of ingenuity and craftsmanship. The ropes, which were spun to the proper sizes, were made of the prisoner's wife's hair." The ship's model below is in the MMM, and the picture is courtesy of them.

    They also put on theatre productions, made furniture and other articles in exchange for money to ease the burden of life in the gaol.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pilkington_model_70.jpg 
Views:	274 
Size:	28.5 KB 
ID:	16379
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Samp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Live Tuebrook area.
    Posts
    409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Wilkinson View Post
    Copyright law is a complex area but legally if a statue is in a public place (i.e. in the street) it is not subject to copyright (it is in the public realm - like a building). However, if it is on private land (i.e Lime Street Station/Walker Art Gallery), copyright does apply and it is a matter for the landowner and the artist as to whether they wish to control access to photographers. In most cases, this is not pursued - but I was caught out at the International Garden Festival in 1984 when I published postcards of all the attractions, including the sculptures. I received two solicitors' letters demanding compensation because artists they represent had their work in view in two postcards. It was settled amicably but the point was that the Garden Festival was not a public place and there was no automatic freedom to publish views without agreement from all parties.
    I visited all the Garden Festival sites and took many photographs assfar as I am concerned the copyright is mine.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Samp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Live Tuebrook area.
    Posts
    409

    Default

    Does anyone have any information on the gaol that was located in or near Russel Street! this was supposed to have housed french prisoners of war, and may have accounted for them being buried in St Johns Garden, given the location?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. liverpool borough gaol
    By wsteve55 in forum Liverpool History and Heritage Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-25-2011, 11:08 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •