The Man In The Cylinder

[lindylou]

Birdseye, I can't recall anyone talking about it here, but I have heard this tale before.
it is fascinating isn't it. Clifton rd. I presume that will be the Clifton rd in Tuebrook.

[birdseye]

Yes, thats the one.

I've puzzled over this for years now and considered the possibility that the cylinder was damaged in some way, either by the bombing or by the demolition machine, to close it at both ends - but that opens up another riddle. If it was damaged, it would have been a curious impact which damaged it at both ends but not in the middle. The account in the RWE book mentions children rolling it about if I remember rightly, so it must have retained it's round shape. But even if that was correct and it was damaged in the way mentioned, it means that the cylinder would have been open sufficiently to see inside while it was in the house it came from. Given that it lay there for around seventy years, surely some tenant would have been curious and looked inside. If not, it would mean that it was concealed over the years it was there and that another person would have had to be involved in it's concealment, perhaps behind a false wall in the cellar.

Whover concealed the cylinder when the body was inside may well have been responsible for the man's death but if he was dead when he was placed inside, why the rough bedding and the pillow? It seems a lot of trouble to go to to hide a body at a time when police detection of murder was in it's infancy. Or the man may have committed suicide because of his financial difficulties. If so, why would anyone wish to conceal his death by hiding his body?

It really is a fascinating puzzle, made even more so by the fact that it is unlikely to ever be solved.

[DaisyChains]

Yes, thats the one.

I've puzzled over this for years now and considered the possibility that the cylinder was damaged in some way, either by the bombing or by the demolition machine, to close it at both ends - but that opens up another riddle. If it was damaged, it would have been a curious impact which damaged it at both ends but not in the middle. The account in the RWE book mentions children rolling it about if I remember rightly, so it must have retained it's round shape. But even if that was correct and it was damaged in the way mentioned, it means that the cylinder would have been open sufficiently to see inside while it was in the house it came from. Given that it lay there for around seventy years, surely some tenant would have been curious and looked inside. If not, it would mean that it was concealed over the years it was there and that another person would have had to be involved in it's concealment, perhaps behind a false wall in the cellar.

Whover concealed the cylinder when the body was inside may well have been responsible for the man's death but if he was dead when he was placed inside, why the rough bedding and the pillow? It seems a lot of trouble to go to to hide a body at a time when police detection of murder was in it's infancy. Or the man may have committed suicide because of his financial difficulties. If so, why would anyone wish to conceal his death by hiding his body?

It really is a fascinating puzzle, made even more so by the fact that it is unlikely to ever be solved.

Good old RWE does offer a solution in that he thinks the man in the cylinder crawled inside to avoid debtors. I think he says his name is Thomas Creegan??
(Going on memory!)

[johnreppion]

never heard this before, very interesting.

[DaisyChains]

never heard this before, very interesting.

Get this man some Whittington-Egan books poste haste!! hehe

[johnreppion]

Get this man some Whittington-Egan books poste haste!! hehe

I do have a couple and I've read a few more from the library in the past. He was (is?) certainly a gifted story teller but some of his sources can be a bit elusive in my experience.

[DaisyChains]

I do have a couple and I've read a few more from the library in the past. He was (is?) certainly a gifted story teller but some of his sources can be a bit elusive in my experience.

I'm sorry, you can say anybody is a bit elusive but Whittington Egan!
This man is responsible for so many people's passion for Liverpool local history.

I have corresponded with him and he comes from a well documented (and well to do) family, with connections in the Philharmonic orchestra, Maybrick's, and had many first hand meetings with alot of the legends that make Liverpool history so great.
He even has his own little Black Museum! (wow!)

[ChrisGeorge]

I'm sorry, you can say anybody is a bit elusive but Whittington Egan!
This man is responsible for so many people's passion for Liverpool local history.

I have corresponded with him and he comes from a well documented (and well to do) family, with connections in the Philharmonic orchestra, Maybrick's, and had many first hand meetings with alot of the legends that make Liverpool history so great.
He even has his own little Black Museum! (wow!)

Here is the Wikipedia entry on RWE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Whittington-Egan

[johnreppion]

I'm sorry, you can say anybody is a bit elusive but Whittington Egan!
This man is responsible for so many people's passion for Liverpool local history.

I have corresponded with him and he comes from a well documented (and well to do) family, with connections in the Philharmonic orchestra, Maybrick's, and had many first hand meetings with alot of the legends that make Liverpool history so great.
He even has his own little Black Museum! (wow!)

I'm very happy to learn that Mr. Whittington Egan is alive and well and must apologise if my earlier post sounded like a criticism of his work. I quite agree that he is a hugely important figure, highly influential in his field and an excellent writer.

The elusiveness or sources I was referring to is something that has cropped up recently during my researching a piece on Spring Heeled Jack where I came across some data from one of Mr. Whittington Egan's publications which didn't quite fit. On the whole I think he treats the supernatural accounts which he writes about much more as ghost stories and a bit less seriously than his historical stuff. That said, he's a good writer and can get away with it; he makes it a pleasure to read. However, from the point of view of myself researching a ghost book, some of the data is slightly lacking. Not really a criticism at all, just me moaning about me book being hard really. Sorry.

[Ged]

You sound really into making your ghost book being one of fact and not subjectiveness, conjecture or hearsay and folklore which is refreshing and commendable given that nearly all of the rest are just that. Maybe hitting the brick walls that you obviously are will greater awareness to all that even with todays technology, Ghosts are yet to be a proven phenomenon and is why the best of the rest seems so far fetched and made up. Good luck in any case.

[johnreppion]

You sound really into making your ghost book being one of fact and not subjectiveness, conjecture or hearsay and folklore which is refreshing and commendable given that nearly all of the rest are just that. Maybe hitting the brick walls that you obviously are will greater awareness to all that even with todays technology, Ghosts are yet to be a proven phenomenon and is why the best of the rest seems so far fetched and made up. Good luck in any case.

Cheers Ged. A lot of what I'm writing about comes from people's personal accounts and as such there's still a fair bit of unsubstantiated stuff in there. However, I'm doing my best to at least try to look into the history of the places and people involved. If I can't find anything then I'll just be honest and say "I spent some time in the records office researching X but could come up with no likely candidates for X", or similar. I love a good ghost story as much as the next man but if I used unsubstantiated stories without at least attempting to look into them a little I'd feel like I may as well just make it all up anyway. And if I did that, you lot would be the first to pull me up on it.

[ChrisGeorge]

I'm very happy to learn that Mr. Whittington Egan is alive and well and must apologise if my earlier post sounded like a criticism of his work. I quite agree that he is a hugely important figure, highly influential in his field and an excellent writer.

The elusiveness or sources I was referring to is something that has cropped up recently during my researching a piece on Spring Heeled Jack where I came across some data from one of Mr. Whittington Egan's publications which didn't quite fit. On the whole I think he treats the supernatural accounts which he writes about much more as ghost stories and a bit less seriously than his historical stuff. That said, he's a good writer and can get away with it; he makes it a pleasure to read. However, from the point of view of myself researching a ghost book, some of the data is slightly lacking. Not really a criticism at all, just me moaning about me book being hard really. Sorry.

Hi researchwriter

As noted in the Wikipedia entry on Mr Whittington-Egan, he was for some thirty years or so a Fleet Street journalist. I would suggest that in that case, his writing to some extent in terms of features and even his books were influenced by the need to tell a good and enthralling story. So yes I should say that he probably accepted the ghost stories at face value because he knew they would interest his readers. In his crime writing, such as his book on American actor Philip Yale Drew, accused of the murder of a Reading tobacconist, he tends to be much more careful of his facts and his analysis thereof.

All the best

Chris

[Ged]

After the body was extracted from the container by a Dutch bloke with clogs and a funny hat on there was a hollow cylinder and a silly hollander.

[ChrisGeorge]

I do have a couple and I've read a few more from the library in the past. He was (is?) certainly a gifted story teller but some of his sources can be a bit elusive in my experience.

Hello researchwriter

I am pleased to tell you that Richard Whittington-Egan is still alive and living in Worcestershire with his wife, Molly, also a writer. Richard Whittington-Egan's The Quest for Jack the Ripper was first announced to be imminent in 1998 but has yet to appear from Rupert Books. I understand the book has grown to immense proportions and if and when it finally appears it should be a compendium that Ripperologists will wish to own as a definitive book on the topic.

All the best

Chris

[pagancharms]

Hi

I can remember my father telling me about this, he was a teenager during the war and can remember it being in the newspapers.