Edge Lane Development

[Jericho]

Jericho
Where's your evidence that people don't feel safe travelling by local transport.
Look at the investment in cameras on trains, train stations, bus terminals, bus's, and look at the slogans on some of the trains reminding us that cameras are installed for our safety? why would all this investment need to take place if everyone felt safe on public transport, thats "fact"
Merseyside transport police now patrol the underground on a regular bases, if people already felt safe before this then why bother to invest in police officers on trains?

Why should the council re invest in run down housing stock, and no my evidence is not ancidotal its factual. Regarding how does this relate to edge lane, well, there are or rather were private landlords and some social landlords in the area. If you turn around what has been said and your implying that private home owners are responsible for the condition of their own propertys? then why should the council tax payer foot the bill to refurbish homes that private owners cannot be bothered to maintaine? sure everyone would like their existing homes done up for free! and what about the infa structure, safe places to park cars? green spaces, refurbishment doesnt bring about those without demolition. All housing stock has a shelf life, the condition of roofing timbers, lack of damp coursing, poor insultion values lead water pipes no heating rotten windows, all adds to the cost. and in the end what would they end up with? the same problems they had before (just suspended).
With regards to the road, they have to invest in the road to bring in new business to the city center and to attract further investment. Every city needs to have a good transport infa structure.
kat

Hi Kat,

I have addressed the issue about safety above.

In terms of who foots the bill for rennovation, I think people who don't have a morgage or have paid for their property should be put in one of those schemes whereby they own a certain percentage of their property and the housing association owns the rest. In terms of additional costs, the cost of demolishing exisiting properties and building new ones as part of social housing provision would be offset by using this money to rennovate exisiting areas and giving people a real stake in their community. Maybe then they will leave the plumbing and bathroom fittings alone! In a capitalist system the more this type of scheme was operated the cheaper it would become.

BTW, did all the tenants behave in the way you describe in your post?

In terms of roads - Liverpool's roads are fine. There isn't any meaningful congestion. I can drive from where I live in Aigburth to anywhere in town in about 10 minutes (if I get caught in a bit of traffic at a traffic light). Even at rush hour, I can still do it in 20 minutes. We don't need any more dual carriageways in the centre of town. There isn't the demand for them. The only place I can see a demand would be from Seaforth docks to Switch Island in order to get the lorries away from the port.

[Howie]

I’ll spend £200m on my grot spots, if only city will let me
Jul 31 2007
by Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

TYCOON Albert Gubay today unveiled his £200m plan to transform Liverpool’s Edge Lane.

It includes turning Edge Lane retail park into a 21st-century shopping and leisure complex – and the demise of the city’s three worst grotspots.

His company, Derwent Holdings, revealed its intentions for the important site days after Liverpool council threatened legal action to tidy up eyesores on the key route.

The firm claims it has been trying to regenerate the area for eight years – but has so far failed to receive crucial backing from city councillors.

But the council says Derwent has yet to come up with the type of scheme it wants for Edge Lane.

Derwent’s proposal would see:

Edge Lane retail park demolished and replaced with modern shops and leisure facilities, with most of the current stores moving into the new premises. Offices and a hotel would also be built.

A central boulevard through the rebuilt retail park, with views over the city centre.

The notorious Rugs 2 Go and Klaussner site transformed into housing.

The derelict Advent car showroom demolished and replaced with leisure facilities.

A former factory site in Mill Lane, off Edge Lane, redeveloped into small industrial units and housing.

Derwent, which owns the retail park, says the scheme is entirely privately funded by Mr Gubay’s property empire and could start as soon as it got council approval.

A spokesman said: “For the past 25 years, we have been instrumental in pioneering the development and regeneration of this section of Edge Lane.

“We were interested in developing this area when it had long been neglected and fallen into disrepair. At the time, the area was a scene of industrial desolation.

“We have been proud to make a contribution to what we see as the beginnings of the renovation of this vital gateway into Liverpool.

“For the last eight years, we have been seeking to comprehensively develop our land in Edge Lane with a view to producing a world-class scheme appropriate for the 21st century.

“We have been continuously and bitterly frustrated in that desire by a staggering series of last-minute U-turns and broken promises on the part of the council.”

Derwent claims it has twice held lengthy talks about possible schemes for Edge Lane, in 1999 and 2001, only for the council to step back at the last minute.

It also says it presented its current proposal to the council in February, but was told it was “too ambitious”.

Its spokesman said: “It seems the council is pursuing an agenda for development in Liverpool which just does not include any satisfactory proposals for Edge Lane.

“By closing off crossing spaces in the central reservation, it is producing what amounts to a sterile corridor for traffic from the M62 to the city centre.

We have been, and continue to be, open to any discussions with the council to resolve the current stalemate. Ultimately, we must work together for the good of the city we all love.”

Liverpool council is mid way through the Edge Lane Project, a multi-million pound scheme to improve the road and the buildings alongside it.

Officials today hit back at Derwent Holdings, saying it has ignored guidance on the best way to revitalise Edge Lane.

A spokesman said: “While discussions have been held between council officers and the landowner over a number of years, the details are necessarily confidential.

“However, to achieve the outcome sought by both parties – the environmental improvement of Edge Lane and an attractive retail and leisure offer – we have repeatedly stated that a comprehensive scheme is needed, in accordance with national and local planning guidance.

“The landowner has either submitted incremental proposals with little or no justification, or proposals of such a scale and form that could not achieve planning permission.

“Our advice and guidance has been ignored to date.

“If followed, it could lead to a comprehensive scheme for the redevelopment of this important and strategic section of Edge Lane.”

nick.coligan@liverpool.com

Source: Liverpool Echo

[lindylou]

Philip I am with you on this one.

I have to use the bus when I can't get a lift.

Depends which bus route you have to use I suppose, but using the 14 which goes from town right through to Broadway, Croxteth etc, is like being on Boffo Tours !!

Not too bad mornings - when all the 'nom de plumes' are still in their pits - - but any later you are subject to all manner of sights and sounds - and smells !
ie; screaming kids and screaming mothers .. ''gerr'eerr NOW'' , loud mobile phone conversations down your lughole ! hoodies smoking foul smelling stinky stuff, vile language, empty coke cans rolling around from one end of the bus to the other - - not to mention when the school kids pile on after school lets out like all hell's let loose.

.... and you wonder why people would rather go by car !

my husband refuses to travel by bus - he refuses to have to sit surrounded by foul mouth hoodies, litter and graffiti'd seats - and I don't blame him.

(My stepfather hasn't been on a bus for about 40 years !! and is not about to start ! )

Who can blame people wanting to use the comfort and privacy of their own transport. Especially these days with what we have to contend with (anti-social stuff).


A lot of people feel unsafe on public transport at evening times.

[PhilipG]

I heard that the Regal Bingo in Broadway was going to close, so I went to take photos, and caught the 14 on a Saturday afternoon.
It wasn't a case of feeling unsafe, because I was genuinely frightened on that day.
Those things you get for parties that explode and shoot out streams of sticky stuff, not sure what they're called, were being set off by about 8 youths at the back of the bus. Not children, they were about 16 to 19.
The bus was quite full, so I had no choice but to sit a couple of seats in front of them.
I knew they were just hoping that me (or somebody) was going to tackle them, but I'm not a hero, so I sat, disgusted with myself for letting them shoot these things at me.
As I was getting off I asked a young mother at the front of the bus whether there was anything on my back. She said no, and I could hear the laugh in her voice.
The back of my jacket was covered in the stuff!

[kat2]

Hi, Jericho,
statistics are a wonderfull tool until something happens to you then you become part of that statistic. There has (sadly been a long standing issue over the safety of passengers on public transport)
I still do not beleive it is a safe way to travel and, like one poster has already said he wouldnt venture out at night on public transport. I was told off a few years back on a bus travelling home late at night on my own, the bus driver said to my that I was asking for trouble and made things difficult for him should something happen!!!.
I have boarded the tube trains late at night and it sure is a scary place, drunks, drug addicts they all seem to come out late at night.
Over here in the wirral we have had in the last twelve months people being pushed off stations onto railway lines. Regular court sessions to do with people being beaten up at conway park train station. so, I dont consider public transport safe especially when I am restricted to what time I can and cannot use it. With regards to doing up houses, it really isnt as simple as that, I mean what happens if people just dont want to invest in their homes and that the council is trying to inject new investment into an area by making it more viable, (shops places to go green spaces car parking) alot of people moved out of parts of edge lane long before the proposed works indeed alot have gone since because generally people have told us time and again, that they want a better nicer place to bring up their children. There fed up with mr/mrs druggie on the corner, or the getto no go areas. Hence why areas are looked at in a more complex form than you think. I am sure you may have come across the "phrase" designing crime out"? well, thats what they are trying to do, make a place more nicer to live in. And the other side of the coin too, is there are alot of propertys in Liverpool in the low council tax band, wirral has the same problem too.
kat

[petromax]

David Waugh, who was head of Liverpool Land Development Corporation spent the latter half of a very successful career revolutionising Speke; creating thoudands of jobs and making Liverpool a more attractive place for people to invest in and create more jobs in. After years of trying to do the same thing at Edge Lane and meeting such opposition and people who prefer to live in squalor as long as it's their own squalor, it's no wonder he resigned.

As for the rotten state of the buses and public transport in general, the answer is better control of feral louts rather than the selfishness of cars and more cars.

[petromax]

I was walking in Manchester the other day and was spat on FROM a passing bus by kids who though it was of course hugely funny.

Fortunately it was just stopping at a bus stop.

I complained to the driver who immediately turned off the engine and called the police. He said there was no need for me to hang around and get involved as the police would soon sort it.

There are ways these things can be dealt with without risking being a hero.

[shytalk]

It would be inexpensive and very effective to put smoke alarms on buses connected to the engine cut off, this would sort the problem of yobs smoking skunk on them. Of course it would require the cooperation of the police who might not approve of the extra work.

[Kev]

It would be inexpensive and very effective to put smoke alarms on buses connected to the engine cut off, this would sort the problem of yobs smoking skunk on them. Of course it would require the cooperation of the police who might not approve of the extra work.

There would be some risk in undertaking such work surely?

[shytalk]

There would be some risk in undertaking such work surely?

I could see problems of buses stopping in the middle lane of a motorway but I'm sure it could be designed to warn the driver before the cut off, and once the yobs knew it was in place and they would be removed from the bus they would be less inclined to do it.
Was just an idea, because nothing seems to get done about them.
I was on a bus coming down from Glasgow about 5 years ago and someone was smoking, the steward warned them and they didn't stop, the police were at the next rest stop to remove them, has so much changed in 5 years?.

[Kev]

A SECOND public inquiry into the regeneration of the Edge Lane corridor will go ahead, it can be revealed. Read

[scottieroader]

as well as the fact that residents are being shafted and given pittance for their homes. There is the fact that there are some beautiful houses along Edge Lane which will be demolished and replaced with (what appears from the artists impressions to be bland yuppie trash that could be anywhere.

Liverpool has done well to maintain something of a townscape on the roads in. Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow and Birmingham all had this kind of townscape (driving into town through a vibrant community makes you feel like you are approaching a real place) demolished and replaced with motorways. Reducing the density, quality of architecture and mix of residents will take away any chance of this vibrancy being restored (I admit that in the present state the vibrancy isn't there, but doing this will mean it's gone forever).

It all smacks of the automatic assumption that terraced housing is what is causing the social and economic problems of the area. Remember Graham 'nobody wants to see Coronation Street housing on Liverpool's doorstep' well about 6 million people watch Corrie a day so it can't be that undesirable.

Speaking of Corrie... a similar thing is happening in Langworthy, Salford (where the opening credits were filmed) Residents are being turfed out of their own homes and assured that they will be able to move back into better quality housing. But they are having to pay for this increase in quality. Basically, they are being forced to move to luxury housing and pay luxury housing prices when they are perfectly happy with low-end terraced housing because it's what they can afford. Also, as in with one woman, sometimes they find their way back into the area blocked. This woman, a professional with a broad Salfordian accent was told by the council that they wanted a higher class of person to move into the area.

[Cadfael]

Don't forget to visit my website written for Elizabeth:

www.edgelane.moonfruit.com

[christy]

Driving through the buisness park past Barclays etc the other day for the first time in awhile and came across the roadworks in there. Seems that a new road has been put in from Edge Lane through behind the Littlewoods building to join up at a new junction with the road through the buisness park and then directly onto Picton/Wavertree road.
If this is the here, why could they not have made this the new entrance into the city. They have done major work on the new junction near Laurel road at the other end of this new road so why could it not have been widened to 2 lanes each way and continued onto Picton/Wavertree road and down past the Bears paw towards West Derby street and the proposed new junction that will lead to Low Hill and Islington. This would be a very easy solution and cancels out the flawed shallow 'arguaments' on road safety for the top end of edge lane (pavement widths etc etc.) as edge lane would be diverted to the left of Botanic park and totally miss the top end of Edge lane.
This would also lead to the regeneration of Wavertree road which is much worse than edge lane.
The fact that this road was always going to be constructed also shows that the council's accusations about the edge lane protestors causing the city to look bad for visitors using edge lane because of delays is also just propaganda to turn people against them. In the time they have stubbornly trying to get their own way, the council and its officers have missed a golden opportunity that could have resulted in a compromise that would have went a long way to pleasing all side, maintaining our built heritage and improving the main route into the city for visitors.

[Cadfael]

Driving through the buisness park past Barclays etc the other day for the first time in awhile and came across the roadworks in there. Seems that a new road has been put in from Edge Lane through behind the Littlewoods building to join up at a new junction with the road through the buisness park and then directly onto Picton/Wavertree road.
If this is the here, why could they not have made this the new entrance into the city. They have done major work on the new junction near Laurel road at the other end of this new road so why could it not have been widened to 2 lanes each way and continued onto Picton/Wavertree road and down past the Bears paw towards West Derby street and the proposed new junction that will lead to Low Hill and Islington. This would be a very easy solution and cancels out the flawed shallow 'arguaments' on road safety for the top end of edge lane (pavement widths etc etc.) as edge lane would be diverted to the left of Botanic park and totally miss the top end of Edge lane.
This would also lead to the regeneration of Wavertree road which is much worse than edge lane.
The fact that this road was always going to be constructed also shows that the council's accusations about the edge lane protestors causing the city to look bad for visitors using edge lane because of delays is also just propaganda to turn people against them. In the time they have stubbornly trying to get their own way, the council and its officers have missed a golden opportunity that could have resulted in a compromise that would have went a long way to pleasing all side, maintaining our built heritage and improving the main route into the city for visitors.