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Thread: Teen Gun Gangs

  1. #1
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Default Teen Gun Gangs

    This was on a couple of days ago, but is available to view online. The episode about the security industry includes Liverpool. I spotted Windsor street amongst the shots...the corner shop that fell down recently. Also a few shots of the Waterfront and Paradise St. developments.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/programmes/panorama/default.stm

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link Marky.

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    Default Young Gunmen BBC One Tonight 7.30

    Panorama: Young Gunmen will be on BBC One at 7.30pm on Monday 30 June 2008.

    By Graham Johnson
    BBC Panorama


    Since last October, on and off, I've been closely following the Moss Edz, a 20-strong gang from the Page Moss neighbourhood in Huyton. Their leader Lee is 14.

    The Moss Edz fight with their rivals called the Dovey Edz, from the neighbouring Dovecot area, just a few hundred yards away along Liverpool Road.

    Asked why they fight each other, the boss of the Dovey Edz gang said: "Because they're scumbags. They rob our women. They rob anyone who has got anything - they will rob it."

    The tit-for-tat violence also acts as a training school from which older gang members, aged between 17 and 21, graduate to street and mid-level drug dealing.

    As they move up through the ranks, the superstars are recruited by Liverpool's notorious global drug cartels, with hubs in Amsterdam, Spain and Portugal.

    Lee's parents split up eight years ago but his father still lives locally.

    He says the young gangs have taken over Page Moss attacking the homes of those they dislike, and driving them out.

    Lee's dad said: ''It's not our area, it's not the adults' area anymore, it's the kids' area. They say who can come in and who can't come in; if they don't like anyone's face they'll make sure he's gone.

    "Their gang is everything. That's their family - that's their main family. It's their own little army. They have little generals and all like that.

    "They'll back each other up to the death, right to the death - I know they will. I know they will, that's the way the kids are now."

    During my time with the gang, 17-year-old Scott Elliot was jailed for nine years, for shooting up a house owned by the grandfather of the Dovey Edz gang boss.

    In the same attack, another Moss Edz gang member, nicknamed Fuji, shot himself in the foot with his own shotgun, by accident, while he was threatening the younger brother of the Dovecot boss.

    Fuji, like British soldiers in Afghanistan, carried an SA80 army-issue assault rifle. He kept it under his bed - along with a pump-action shotgun.

    Police said the SA80 had recently been used to "spray up" a house in an unrelated shooting.

    One night one of our team was invited to meet an anonymous gunman from the gang, at a pre-arranged place.

    He pulled out a shotgun from his tracksuit bottoms and a pistol.

    Brandishing the weapons, he said: "If the beef (trouble) come down here they get blasted, lad."

    Lee's mum thinks her son will end up dead or in jail. Even Lee's 10-year-old brother hangs around with the gang and says he's held a gun.

    The mother-of-five said: "You can just see it coming with them all. It's all coming to a head. There's little gangs here and little gangs there. They're not backing down - they're not backing down from each other.

    "You don't think your kids could pick a gun up or a knife - you wouldn't think that they could do that. But I know for a fact they would.

    "We can all point the finger at someone. I mean, do you think I like my son going out, picking a gun up and shooting someone else? I brought him up like that? I don't think so.

    "People can look into this - people don't live in these estates, people don't see, you know, how we live. There are a lot of other agencies out there who could have seen this coming years ago. And could have done something years ago."

    It's too late for Donna Smith. Her son's head was blown off with a shotgun.

    Donna said: "They've took my baby off me and no mother should have to go through it, no mother at all should have to go through it."

    Two years ago, her son, Liam "Smigger" Smith - a member of the Noggadogz gang from Norris Green - was visiting a friend at the local prison when a trivial row broke out with an inmate who was a rival gang member.

    Liam "Smigger" Smith was visiting a friend in prison when he was shot

    Insults were exchanged with the Croxteth Crew and within minutes, a gunman had been summoned using a smuggled mobile phone.

    As he left, Liam was shot in the head at point blank range.

    Donna said: "Why do they have to go round with guns…? I'm not saying Liam was innocent but he didn't deserve it. Nobody's child deserves to be killed like that."

    That was the first and last proper interview Donna gave. She died shortly afterwards of natural causes.

    The Noggadogz have been at war with their rivals, the Croxteth Crew, for four years.

    They have access to a mind-boggling array of guns, they claim.

    Everything from tripod-mounted general purpose machine guns, to nine "milly" pistols, revolvers and John Gottis (shotguns), right down to a home-made "one-shot", constructed from a converted wheel-brace.

    They showed me pictures of these guns and spoke about them and how they were sourced in detail - including ballistic details such as the range and power of a .45 handgun.

    As with most of the gangs in Liverpool, they take videos and pictures of their weapons on mobile phones, mix them up into a three-minute film using Video DJ phone-stored software, and post it on the internet, scored with a retro rap soundtrack such as 2Pac and Biggie Smalls.

    The videos, which are also passed on widely in the playground, have several uses.

    To show off, to cement gang identity and most importantly as a deterrent - as a way of showcasing hidden armouries to rival gangs in an attempt to reveal what's in store should they be foolish enough to come "looking for beef".

    Panorama: Young Gunmen will be on BBC One on Monday 30 June 2008 at 1930 BST.

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    to think these kids are better off than we were 30 years ago, the thought of it all makes me sick.

    child gunmen?

    this shouldn't be shown at-all and the prgramme makers should be more responsible for bringing this a sense of acceptability to a wider audience who still frown upon this behaviour, you wouldn't think the government gave a sh!* though
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    Senior Member shytalk's Avatar
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    Oh dear, dear. How awful. We will have to make them sit on the naughty stool, or even worse,Horror of horrors, give them an ASBO!
    You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
    Winston Churchill

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    ...and why are such intimidating, menacing images being broadcast at 7.30pm?

    someone get a grip
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    To read the apathy of the estranged parents is totally annoying. What is Hogan Howe and his crew doing to earn their corn? He pops up on a Roger Phillips phone-in special now and again to tell everyone how happy and proud he is that Liverpool's crime figures are down but often forgets to mention that they don't include gun/knife crime for which we'd well be up there not to mention what goes unreported because of reprisals.
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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    So sad to read all this.
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    No matter how much you love your home of Liverpool, it's stuff like this that makes you wish you had emigrated years ago.

    ps,

    I should say - UK and not just Liverpool.

  10. #10
    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post

    I should say - UK and not just Liverpool.
    yep indeedy. anyone with a bit of foresight should leave the UK now and probably have already done so.

    the government arent bothered.

    Give it another few years and these child gangs will grab the opportunity to expand, having a direct impact on us all further afield.
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    Senior Member lottie's Avatar
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    I think it's disgusting all these gangs. The do-gooders put it down to a bad backround, lack of parental control etc. My family are from a broken home and have had a really bad time growing up, but we are well adjusted. The ones in the family who do get into trouble don't blame their upbringing. I think if you are going to get involved in gangs you will, i think everyone has the ability to walk away, they just want to feel and look hard. Well i don't think they look hard, i think they look pathetic. I rmrmber in my youth (not too long ago ) i had fights, but they were ONLY with the person concerned.
    Life is what you make it

  12. #12
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    yep indeedy. anyone with a bit of foresight should leave the UK now and probably have already done so.

    the government arent bothered.

    Give it another few year and these child gangs will grab the opportunity to expand, having a direct impact on us all further afield.

    Hi Kev

    What an awful prospect.

    As you will appreciate, here in the US of A we are used to gun crime and to kids being killed by guns, as difficult as it is to take here as well.

    You might find these couple of articles from the Baltimore Examiner to be illuminating:

    Reaction to killings reinforces Federal Hill’s sense of community

    Guns and kids. Safety rules.

    The first story is about two recent fatal shootings in an upscale neighborhood and came to mind with your comment about "Give it another few years and these child gangs will grab the opportunity to expand, having a direct impact on us all further afield."

    The second article about gun ownership is important because the Supreme Court by a one-vote margin has just declared a Washington, D.C. ban on gun ownership unlawful which many think will mean it opens the door to the gun lobby challenging local gun laws nationwide.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member shytalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    No matter how much you love your home of Liverpool, it's stuff like this that makes you wish you had emigrated years ago.

    ps,

    I should say - UK and not just Liverpool.
    I just watched it. Early in the show it did say it wasn't just Liverpool.
    I think it should be shown, there are probably people who have lived in other areas all their lives who have never experienced this. I have said before that there should be a campaign to get rid of Hogan-Howe and replace him with someone who will stand up to the do-gooders. Why should he get a huge salary for failing?.
    You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
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  14. #14
    John(Zappa)
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    Default LIVERPOOL GANGS ON TV

    And to put Liverpool in more bad light...
    TONIGHT CHANNEL 4 23:05
    THE TRUTH ABOUT STREET WEAPONS.



    More about the gangs of Liverpool focusing on knife and gun crime.

  15. #15
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
    Panorama: Young Gunmen will be on BBC One at 7.30pm on Monday 30 June 2008.

    By Graham Johnson
    BBC Panorama


    Since last October, on and off, I've been closely following the Moss Edz, a 20-strong gang from the Page Moss neighbourhood in Huyton. Their leader Lee is 14.

    The Moss Edz fight with their rivals called the Dovey Edz, from the neighbouring Dovecot area, just a few hundred yards away along Liverpool Road.

    Asked why they fight each other, the boss of the Dovey Edz gang said: "Because they're scumbags. They rob our women. They rob anyone who has got anything - they will rob it."

    Panorama: Young Gunmen will be on BBC One on Monday 30 June 2008 at 1930 BST.
    The news just after the programme put things into perspective. This stated that the 17th teenager this year had just been stabbed to death in London

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