YO! Liverpool
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 72

Thread: Fairfield - St John the Divine Church

  1. #1
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Fairfield - St John the Divine Church

    As you may have seen from the local rag, there is plans of demolishing St John the Divine Church in Fairfield.

    I'm fed up with the City Council wasting money on things that do nothing for the city while ignoring our gems of the past.

    A few of us local historians have got together and I'm now putting a website together to highlight this church as soon as possible before someone does come along with a bulldozer.

    It's the same excuse as ever - leave something till it falls down and then demolish - this nearly happened with St James West Derby until the solution was to take down the spire of the church and leave the rest of it!


    ADVERTISING




    Anyway - rant over. My question is, does anyone have any information/old/new pictures of this church? I'm going to visit it this week but I want to see if you lot have any information to give so I can put it on the website. Fairfield doesn't get recognised for its history and I feel that the demolition of the church will just add to that.

  2. #2
    PhilipG
    Guest PhilipG's Avatar

    Default

    St John the Divine's Church, Holly Road, Fairfield.
    Consecrated 14 January 1853.
    Architect: W Raffles Brown.

  3. #3
    The Scarlet Pimple anonymouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    83
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default St John the Divine



    It's been on the cards for quite a while. Sad!
    Never put anyone on a pedestal... THEY'LL LOOK DOWN ON YOU!

  4. #4
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    It's been on the cards for quite a while. Sad!
    Not if we have anything to do with it....all is not lost just yet!

  5. #5
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,678
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    It's a lovely church I didn't know it was under threat.

  6. #6
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Just been to see it and taken about 100 pictures.

    I'm going to start on the website tonight - what a load of rubbish the Daily Post article was. After being in church towers and churches for 30 years, this one is as solid as Blackpool Tower!

    Bigger report later - family round!

  7. #7
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,323
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Churches need congregations that can finance their upkeep. I don't know the circumstances of this particular church but I suspect it has a small congregation which cannot afford or raise the money to maintain its fabric. The Archdeacon of Liverpool had his own church in Bootle demolished for similar reasons.

    Liverpool City Council money is not used to maintain Church of England Churches.

    Perhaps the best example of a beautiful church in Liverpool that had about £500,000 of English Heritage money spent on it but which the community still does not really support by attending it, is St Margaret, Princes Rd, Toxteth.

  8. #8
    Senior Member seasidenan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    How very sad. I don't know this church personally, although I may have done when I was a child. I left Liverpool when I was nearly 14 yrs old, and when I visit I'm amazed at all the changes that have taken place over the years. I used to go to St. Chrysostom's Church when I was a child, and I know that's been demolished, which I find very sad as well. I know also that Evered Avenue School, where I was a pupil for a while, has also been demolished, and probably many other old buildings.

    I hope you manage to save this church as it looks lovely and I look forward to seeing some of your photos on the forum.

    Lilian

  9. #9
    chippie
    Guest chippie's Avatar

    Default St John,s

    Cadfael, it is with great sadness that I read of the plan to pull down St John,s Fairfield. It was the last church in Liverpool that I was a member of back in the middle 90s. I used to write and print the church mag in the last year of my membership.

    At the time it did have a small membership but not smaller than my other church of Holy Trinity in Breck Road.

    My theory is that once the stalwarts who had been going for donkeys years had passed away then the church left with the newer members don,t really have the bite of the older members to take up the sword for a good cause. It,s sad but a real factor in other regions of building and social upbringing that the modern world is now experiencing.

    Good luck on your quest mate if I can dig out any information for you then I,ll send it on.

    The church I remember has had one makeover before when the bulk of the church was pulled down and what now stands was all that was left.

    To me it,s like a lone thread being pulled on a woollen jumper and leaving only the sleeve.

  10. #10
    chippie
    Guest chippie's Avatar

    Default

    I,ve found a pamphlet called "The Renovation Of St. John The Divine 1975-1980 but it is mostly writing. I will scan the few photos of the inside and put them on here in a mo.

  11. #11
    chippie
    Guest chippie's Avatar

    Default

    here they are now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	church1.jpg 
Views:	150 
Size:	106.8 KB 
ID:	7047   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	church2.jpg 
Views:	158 
Size:	115.3 KB 
ID:	7048   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	church3.jpg 
Views:	157 
Size:	79.0 KB 
ID:	7049   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	church4.jpg 
Views:	151 
Size:	77.7 KB 
ID:	7050  

  12. #12
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Here, there & everywhere.
    Posts
    7,198
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    Well done Chippie, i'm sure Bro Cad will be delighted with those.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  13. #13
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Chippie, thank you!! Amazing picture showing the original roof line of the Church. I noticed that this church was under a demolition order and contacted one of my Newsham Park contacts as he was listed in the article.

    It's very simple and sad. The church, re-opened in the 1980's with a new roof/internal structure is now empty and 'needs' to be pulled down due to the instability of the tower and spire. I had seen this spire from a distance (you can't miss it when you travel down Edge Lane) so I thought I would grab the camera and see for myself.

    What I found was a lovely looking church/tower and spire looking to be in a lovely condition. The area around the tower has been fenced off so I started to take pictures and video of the whole setup.

    It would seem that there is some weathering to the spire as parts of the facade of the brickwork is coming lose - far less than the 'huge chunks of stones coming down' that was listed. Indeed there is no sign of fallen masonry around the fenced off area either so my plan was to take detailed pictures of the whole of the tower/spire for a view on the PC.

    There are no cracks on the outer face of the tower itself - I've rung on church bells at some towers which are literally falling down, and unless there is vertical cracking on the inside of the tower (only one bell which was sold so no stress on the tower) then I'm at a loss as to the whole situation.

    It is said that the whole lot is cheaper to demolish than repair but I feel that we will lose one of the last remaining gems of Fairfield if that is done, and I have set up (well, in the process) of setting up a very quick website to highlight the possible solutions before they come along and flatten it and then decide later (as normal) that it was the wrong thing to do.

    Video clip from yesterday:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chsa1yn0aw8

    When the website is looking half decent, I'll post a link!

  14. #14
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    It is a shame but we cannot risk getting sentimental about every old building. Sure, it is a nice church, a nice building but it is nothing special. It's a mid-victorian standard parish church of which there are hundreds in Merseyside alone.

    If it was architectualy significant or unique then I would have no problem campaining to save it, but it is not. It will be a shame to see it go but if it is currently disused then it will simply become a financial burden on the CoE, a crime and safety burden on the Police and Council and a neighbourhood eyesore.

    The intentions to save the church are admirable, but in reality, where will the money come from to support such a large building?

  15. #15
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    My view is that things are never black and white and my reasons for becoming involved in this project are for two reasons.

    First of all, I hate to see any Churches go in Liverpool. We saw the demolition of Emmanuell Everton church where there was nothing wrong with the church. The bells had to be removed and were installed in Christ Church Bootle.

    The reason for demolishing Emmanuell was to put the inner ring road through there - and to this day, the 'footprint' of the church is paving slabs!

    St John's is one of the last historical buildings that stands out for the village of Fairfield and would be a crime to pull it down for that reason only.

    However, I am mystified as to why the Daily Post's article have given this church as 'lots of masonry falling off and is a danger to the public'. My viewing of the external walls yesterday found little evidence of this and want to bring this to notice.

    Lastly, if the church is sitting there and costing nothing to anyone, I cannot see why, if it is in such a bad state, they have not brought in anyone to have a detailed architects view. It is my understanding from the outside of the tower that the problem lies with the spire and not the tower and that the removal of the spire alone would be far less costly than having to demolish the entire site.

    When I complete the website, I would love to see the local's reaction on this and have already spoken to the neighbours of the church who don't want to see it demolished, just so the grass can grow.

  16. #16
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,323
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    My view is that things are never black and white and my reasons for Lastly, if the church is sitting there and costing nothing to anyone, I cannot see why, if it is in such a bad state, they have not brought in anyone to have a detailed architects view. It is my understanding from the outside of the tower that the problem lies with the spire and not the tower and that the removal of the spire alone would be far less costly than having to demolish the entire site.

    When I complete the website, I would love to see the local's reaction on this and have already spoken to the neighbours of the church who don't want to see it demolished, just so the grass can grow.
    Good idea. Perhaps all people who live within the parish boundary, and who would like the church to remain, can be persuaded to put their hands in their pockets to help pay for this. Clearly the church goers themselves don't seem able to fund the church's repair out of their church funds.

  17. #17
    Location Kensington drone_pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Age
    64
    Posts
    285
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Some images taken today (23/06/08) Im gratfull to the Church Warden Jim for permission to take the internal images of St John's.

    A view of the Worship room, now being used as a store.


    A cross in the Worship room (And a reflection of me)


    Where a Memorial plaque once stood


    The Baptismal font.


    A view from outside


    A view of the community room now serving as a Place of Worship


    And Another View


    Some views from the outside










    These last is a biggie so please Be patient.


    Click for full size image.
    Last edited by drone_pilot; 06-23-2008 at 05:57 PM.
    multi multa; nemo omnia novit

  18. #18
    chippie
    Guest chippie's Avatar

    Default

    thank you Drone for bringing back to me the paths I,d walked so many times in the year or so I was there, great pics mate.
    Last edited by chippie; 06-24-2008 at 01:26 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Samp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Live Tuebrook area.
    Posts
    409
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    My view is that things are never black and white and my reasons for becoming involved in this project are for two reasons.

    First of all, I hate to see any Churches go in Liverpool. We saw the demolition of Emmanuell Everton church where there was nothing wrong with the church. The bells had to be removed and were installed in Christ Church Bootle.

    The reason for demolishing Emmanuell was to put the inner ring road through there - and to this day, the 'footprint' of the church is paving slabs!

    St John's is one of the last historical buildings that stands out for the village of Fairfield and would be a crime to pull it down for that reason only.

    However, I am mystified as to why the Daily Post's article have given this church as 'lots of masonry falling off and is a danger to the public'. My viewing of the external walls yesterday found little evidence of this and want to bring this to notice.

    Lastly, if the church is sitting there and costing nothing to anyone, I cannot see why, if it is in such a bad state, they have not brought in anyone to have a detailed architects view. It is my understanding from the outside of the tower that the problem lies with the spire and not the tower and that the removal of the spire alone would be far less costly than having to demolish the entire site.

    When I complete the website, I would love to see the local's reaction on this and have already spoken to the neighbours of the church who don't want to see it demolished, just so the grass can grow.

    Shouldn’t the Redundant Church’s Society be contacted?

  20. #20
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    The Churches Conservation Trust deal with derelict churches that are of significant interest, I doubt St John the Divine would fit that catagory.
    http://www.visitchurches.org.uk/frontpage.asp

    The Friends of Friendless Churches might be a good bet, they are the oldest and have a less stringent manifesto.
    http://www.friendsoffriendlesschurches.org.uk/

    There are a few more but these two seem the biggest and most able.

  21. #21
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I would like to draw everyone's attention to the 'Save our Spires' website which I have designed and constructed from scratch in about 4 days.

    http://www.fairfieldspire.co.uk/

    This is an on-going website and while it may do nothing at all to save the building, nothing ventured nothing gained in my book.

    I've already passed this address and info on to SAVE/English Heritage and other Societies that will be interested.

    Also contacted the local and a couple of national rags. Feel free to pull it to bits as I need lots of sleep and I don't really care

  22. #22
    PhilipG
    Guest PhilipG's Avatar

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    The Churches Conservation Trust deal with derelict churches that are of significant interest, I doubt St John the Divine would fit that catagory.
    http://www.visitchurches.org.uk/frontpage.asp

    The Friends of Friendless Churches might be a good bet, they are the oldest and have a less stringent manifesto.
    http://www.friendsoffriendlesschurches.org.uk/

    There are a few more but these two seem the biggest and most able.
    Only Listing by English Heritage will guaranteee it not being demolished.
    The "new" interior isn't going to help, though.

  23. #23
    chippie
    Guest chippie's Avatar

    Default St John the Divine

    Brother Cadfael that is a great site you,ve put up for St John the Devine, and thank you for the mention but I did but nothing to further your efforts, you did brill all on your tod mate bravo

  24. #24
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kensington, Liverpool
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,196
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Campaigners battle to save landmark church spire and tower
    Jun 18 2008
    by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

    A CAMPAIGN has been launched to save a “landmark” Victorian church tower and spire from demolition.

    Preservationists have opposed plans to demolish St John the Divine church, in Holly Road, Fairfield.

    The church council said it needed to be bulldozed because of its dangerous state. A spokesman added: “Structural engineers have advised that there are major problems with the church spire which make it a very serious health and safety risk.

    “The repair work could cost anything up to £500,000 and would need to start immediately, so the church council felt we had no other option.”

    The building will be demolished and the church will use the proceeds to further its work in the community.

    The church now meets at L’arche, Lockerby Road, Liverpool.

    Last night, the city’s historic environment champion Cllr Berni Turner said she had asked English Heritage to recommend the building be listed. The church was built by Victorian architect W Raffles Brown and has been a landmark since it was consecrated in the 1850s. The Victorian Society said that, as many of the Victorian houses to the south of the church are due to go as part of the Edge Lane widening scheme, demolition of the tower and spire could strip Fairfield of one of its last historic features.

    David Garrard, Historic Churches Adviser of the Victorian Society, said: “The loss of the tower and spire would be a great shame. It is one of the last surviving markers of Fairfield’s affluent past, as well as being a significant landmark today.”

    Preservation campaigner Jonathan Brown said: “This is a highly prominent historic feature on the main highway approach to the city along Edge Lane, and forms part of a unique ensemble of ecclesiastical landmarks that punctuate the journey into Liverpool from the motorway network.”

    Source: Liverpool Daily Post

  25. #25
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    The website went in the Echo tonight but I don't get a copy - if anyone can scan it in for me?

  26. #26
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,323
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
    Campaigners battle to save landmark church spire and tower
    Jun 18 2008
    by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

    A CAMPAIGN has been launched to save a “landmark” Victorian church tower and spire from demolition.

    Preservationists have opposed plans to demolish St John the Divine church, in Holly Road, Fairfield.


    Source: Liverpool Daily Post
    Let's hope that all those who wish to preserve the church actually start attending it on a regular basis. Perhaps then it might have a chance of survival.

  27. #27
    PhilipG
    Guest PhilipG's Avatar

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    Let's hope that all those who wish to preserve the church actually start attending it on a regular basis. Perhaps then it might have a chance of survival.
    Miracles might happen!
    I'm reminded of campaigns to save cinemas where 1000s of people sign petitions, but don't actually patronise the place, which then closes quietly because of lack of customers.

  28. #28
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,323
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Miracles might happen!
    I'm reminded of campaigns to save cinemas where 1000s of people sign petitions, but don't actually patronise the place, which then closes quietly because of lack of customers.
    Exactly my point !!

  29. #29
    Local Historian Cadfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    Let's hope that all those who wish to preserve the church actually start attending it on a regular basis. Perhaps then it might have a chance of survival.
    The church isn't in my area, not do I have any association with the chuch. I was asked to provide a website to highlight the plight of this building, that's all.

  30. #30
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,323
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    The church isn't in my area, not do I have any association with the chuch. I was asked to provide a website to highlight the plight of this building, that's all.
    It was just a general comment not aimed at you Cadfael but I do feel it's pointless trying to preserve an old building that no few then attend, cf for example St Margaret's, Toxteth which had £500,000 spent on it.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. COMMUNITY RADIO RETURNS TO KENSINGTON AND FAIRFIELD
    By SteveFaragher in forum Liverpool North
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-21-2009, 09:59 PM
  2. Kensington and Fairfield VOiCE-new community newspaper
    By SteveFaragher in forum Liverpool East
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-27-2008, 05:07 PM
  3. Fairfield/Newsham park area
    By christy in forum Liverpool City Suburbs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-27-2007, 07:50 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

For daily updates, to support us further or to join in the conversation: Follow us on Twitter @YOLiverpool / Like our Facebook Page: @yoliverpoolpics / Join the Facebook Group: YO! Liverpool Pictures

× Thanks for coming to the web site. Support our future by turning off your Ad-Blocker or consider a donation via PayPal or Credit Card!