Time Team Special: The Lost Dock Of Liverpool

[Kev]

Are those the same cellars that i photographed just before they started digging up Chavasse Park?

[petromax]

One wonders, therefore, how much damage its construction would have caused to the Old Dock beneath?

The archaeology of the old dock turned up breaks in the wall and remains of compacted earth ramps into the dock. I am not sure whether this was for filling the dock up (unlikely, why not just tip it over the side?) or for construction of foundations or cellars. Certainly a lot of the wall was lost.

What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

I read (I think in the World Heritage Site listing) that it was standing but structurally unsound. It caused quite a shock when it was bombed - "the Customs House went last night...." it seems to have been much-missed?

[petromax]

Are those the same cellars that i photographed just before they started digging up Chavasse Park?

The cellars under Chavasse Park were all outside of the dock and must be the buildings facing the dock in the picture.

I think it would have been quite usual in a grand civic building to have a raised ground floor so that the building was entered up 'grand' steps (like George's Hall). The arches and small rooms also suggest that the walls supported a floor for bigger spaces above. Question is, can anyone convince themselves that the semi-circular shapes are stairs down into another basement? This shape would have been stronger in brickwork than a modern rectangular stair.

[Waterways]

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohiKml6_ctM

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6mWJj0yWp8

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kraxg4zxzh8

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NcwFlk970

Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTP-AaqiJoE

.

[wsteve55]

Sorry Ged, I haven't. Just something else that I should have photographed but didn't..

Here's another of the remains of the Customs House dating from as late as 1954, over a decade after it was bombed. The cellars don't seem to go down anywhere near as deep as that hole we saw on the programme. One wonders, therefore, how much damage its construction would have caused to the Old Dock beneath?



I found both this and the aerial view above online somewhere ages ago but can't for the life of me remember where now.

I heard it said that the interior of the Customs House was, like the Museum, gutted by incendiaries but that its main structure was basically ok and could also have been restored. What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

I think i've seen another,closer, pic' somewhere, but can anyone identify the statue in this photo? It' in the middle of the open piece of land. (Thomas Steers maybe?) Also, I wonder what happened to it

[knowhowe]

W Herdman: Entrance to the Old Dock

"From the draw-bridge, we see, towards the river, the gut or entrance into the basin from the river; and that the gut or basin accomodates both this and the Salt-house dock. Looking up the dock, we observe the Custom-house facing us at the other end. This first-constructed dock has been made about 75 years. Its walls are of brick. It is 200 yards long; of irregular breadth, but which may average 80 yards; with an area of 16,832 sqare yards.
This dock is a receptacle for West India and African ships, as it is contiguous to the Warehouses of the Merchants concerned in those branches of Commerce. Also Irish traders and vessels from Portugal, Spain and the Mediterranean. The surrounding houses are altogether public-houses, or shops with such wearing apparel &c as are most commonly wanted by seamen. Adjoining the gates of this dock is the place where fish are most commonly landed from the different fishing boats from Ireland, Scotland and the more adjacent neighbouring coasts.
As we proceed along the dock we observe a great many small vessels, chiefly sloops with one mast each, and which are coasting traders, mostly from the northern coast, extending to Scotland; as may be observed by painted boards, hung upon the most conspicuous parts of the rigging, denoting the places they are bound to. This is generally a busy, crowded place.
... Crossing one of the bridges, we are upon Man's Island; all artificial ground, raised from the sea. The left direction leads us to the quay where the Dublin Packets lie, with their packet-houses and offices facing them; which buildings are called Nova Scotia".
W Moss: The Liverpool Guide, 1796.



A View of the Customs-House Taken From Traffords Weint

[PhilipG]

This edition of the Ordnance Survey maps showed the ground floors of public buildings, and it's apparent that the rooms in the Custom House were rather small - for such a huge building, so I've now got an open mind about what remained after the main structure was demolished in 1948.

The monument was to Huskisson.

[Ged]

Ogden's weint off Litherland Alley was still there until at last as the 1970s.

[Waterways]

Here's another of the remains of the Customs House dating from as late as 1954, over a decade after it was bombed.

"as late as"? They only cleared that in the mid 1960s. I used to pay in it - a wonderous maze. We would run along the walls which were about 3 to 4 foot thick.

I heard it said that the interior of the Customs House was, like the Museum, gutted by incendiaries but that its main structure was basically ok and could also have been restored. What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

Yep. The operation was moved to London so the place was demolished. Another case of London raping the city.

Here is the Customs house burnt out in the background.

[petromax]

...but can anyone identify the statue in this photo? ...:

It seems to be marked 'Huskisson's Monument' on PhillipG's plan? (The MP killed by the Rocket?)

[petromax]

...Also, I wonder what happened to it

"The Walker Art Gallery Liverpool statue of Huskisson was originally in St James's Cemetery, Liverpool, on top of the remains of William Huskisson. The sculpture was housed in a specially built mausoleum. The housing of the sculpture attracted a lot of criticism. Many critics thought that to allow such an important sculpture to be viewed from one direction only was a waste.
The critics suggested that the sculpture could be moved to another location in the city. However, William Huskisson's wife wanted the sculpture to remain above her husband's grave. She commissioned the sculptor Gibson to create another sculpture in marble. This second sculpture was supposed to stand in the Custom House, Liverpool. The sculpture, completed in 1836, didn't stay in Liverpool however, and was instead placed at the Royal Exchange, London. Today it can be found in Pimlico Gardens, London.

Using the second marble sculpture as a master, a bronze version was cast. This bronze version of the sculpture was unveiled in October 1847. Its original location was in front of the Customs House in Canning Place, Liverpool. The Customs House was destroyed during air raids in 1940 during the Second World War. In 1954 the sculpture was moved to a new home on the Princes Road/Princes Avenue boulevard. The sculpture was pulled from its plinth in the Toxteth Riots of 1981because people thought Huskisson had been a slave trader. From 1982 onwards the bronze sculpture was housed in the Oratory in St James's Mount Gardens. In 2004 it came into the sculpture studios at the National Conservation Centre for conservation. The sculpture is now located in a new housing development off Duke Street in the city centre. (Duke Street Terrace near The Chinese Arch).

I am grateful to Alan Maycock for putting together this information. His sources were various National Museums in Liverpool: the National Conservation Centre, Liverpool Monuments , Lowton history site"

[PhilipG]

"The Walker Art Gallery Liverpool statue of Huskisson was originally in St James's Cemetery, Liverpool, on top of the remains of William Huskisson. The sculpture was housed in a specially built mausoleum. The housing of the sculpture attracted a lot of criticism. Many critics thought that to allow such an important sculpture to be viewed from one direction only was a waste.
The critics suggested that the sculpture could be moved to another location in the city. However, William Huskisson's wife wanted the sculpture to remain above her husband's grave. She commissioned the sculptor Gibson to create another sculpture in marble. This second sculpture was supposed to stand in the Custom House, Liverpool. The sculpture, completed in 1836, didn't stay in Liverpool however, and was instead placed at the Royal Exchange, London. Today it can be found in Pimlico Gardens, London.

Using the second marble sculpture as a master, a bronze version was cast. This bronze version of the sculpture was unveiled in October 1847. Its original location was in front of the Customs House in Canning Place, Liverpool. The Customs House was destroyed during air raids in 1940 during the Second World War. In 1954 the sculpture was moved to a new home on the Princes Road/Princes Avenue boulevard. The sculpture was pulled from its plinth in the Toxteth Riots of 1981because people thought Huskisson had been a slave trader. From 1982 onwards the bronze sculpture was housed in the Oratory in St James's Mount Gardens. In 2004 it came into the sculpture studios at the National Conservation Centre for conservation. The sculpture is now located in a new housing development off Duke Street in the city centre. (Duke Street Terrace near The Chinese Arch).

I am grateful to Alan Maycock for putting together this information. His sources were various National Museums in Liverpool: the National Conservation Centre, Liverpool Monuments , Lowton history site"

Here it is in Duke Street.
It seems rather an odd place for it, as you only see it when you go to the rear of the properties.

[petromax]

...It seems rather an odd place for it...

Apparently a bit of an odd bloke. His statue is in the 'heroic' style ie. nothing like him

[wsteve55]

"The Walker Art Gallery Liverpool statue of Huskisson was originally in St James's Cemetery, Liverpool, on top of the remains of William Huskisson. The sculpture was housed in a specially built mausoleum. The housing of the sculpture attracted a lot of criticism. Many critics thought that to allow such an important sculpture to be viewed from one direction only was a waste.
The critics suggested that the sculpture could be moved to another location in the city. However, William Huskisson's wife wanted the sculpture to remain above her husband's grave. She commissioned the sculptor Gibson to create another sculpture in marble. This second sculpture was supposed to stand in the Custom House, Liverpool. The sculpture, completed in 1836, didn't stay in Liverpool however, and was instead placed at the Royal Exchange, London. Today it can be found in Pimlico Gardens, London.

Using the second marble sculpture as a master, a bronze version was cast. This bronze version of the sculpture was unveiled in October 1847. Its original location was in front of the Customs House in Canning Place, Liverpool. The Customs House was destroyed during air raids in 1940 during the Second World War. In 1954 the sculpture was moved to a new home on the Princes Road/Princes Avenue boulevard. The sculpture was pulled from its plinth in the Toxteth Riots of 1981because people thought Huskisson had been a slave trader. From 1982 onwards the bronze sculpture was housed in the Oratory in St James's Mount Gardens. In 2004 it came into the sculpture studios at the National Conservation Centre for conservation. The sculpture is now located in a new housing development off Duke Street in the city centre. (Duke Street Terrace near The Chinese Arch).

I am grateful to Alan Maycock for putting together this information. His sources were various National Museums in Liverpool: the National Conservation Centre, Liverpool Monuments , Lowton history site"

Thanks, interesting stuff! It's a wonder the statue survived, considering what happened to the customs house, and I dont mean by the lutwaffe!

[ayjaykay]

I've just posted a post-war, pre-demolition photo of the Customs House here