Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: ELEANOR RIGBY - What's the truth?

  1. #1
    Chris48
    Guest Chris48's Avatar

    Default ELEANOR RIGBY - What's the truth?

    McCartney says that the song title was made up from the names above shops that he saw in London. Yesterday I was at a family grave at St Peters in Woolton and thought I would have a quick look at the grave of Eleanor Rigby. It seems to me that it is too much of a coincidence that the song title was not taken from the grave in view of the fact that 1. St Peters has a strong association with The Beatles/Quarrymen and 2. Very close to ERs grave is the grave of somebody called McKenzie (as in Father McKenzie). So is McCartney telling the truth and if not why? Could it be a decent ruse on McCartneys part to stop beatles fans wrecking the grave site?

    Advertisements -------
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	eleanorrigby.jpg 
Views:	386 
Size:	602.3 KB 
ID:	5711  

  2. #2
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,924
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Blog Entries
    22

    Default

    The words were not all McCartney's. The words were banded about amongst them all and changed occasionally and Eleanor Rigby was chosen at the last minute.

    They may have met at the church hall, however it was not their haunt as such. There may have been something latent in his mind from seeing the name 9 years before, although not conscious of recalling the names(s).
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-22-2008 at 11:35 AM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

  3. #3
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,590
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Anyone who has studied genealogy knows that names repeat and repeat in different generations and different locations. I think the odds are that it is sheer coincidence that the name on the grave and the name in the song are the same.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  4. #4
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Here, there & everywhere.
    Posts
    7,197
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts

    Default

    For the record. Paul says the Eleanor part was named after Eleanor Bron who was appearing in their film Help.

    Rigby was the name taken from above a shop in Bristol where his girlfriend Jane Asher was appearing.

    Only he truly knows of course but it does seem a very big co-incidence. John Lennon was also a choir boy at St. Peters so the area which is only facing the hall where they met will be well known to them.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  5. #5
    Senior Member julieoapw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    281
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    McCartney says that he always thought he got the name from Eleanor Bron and the shop but he now says that its quite possible that he may have subconsciously remembered it from seeing the grave all those years before. I don't believe there was any attempt by him to deceive.

  6. #6
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,590
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julieoapw View Post
    McCartney says that he always thought he got the name from Eleanor Bron and the shop but he now says that its quite possible that he may have subconsciously remembered it from seeing the grave all those years before. I don't believe there was any attempt by him to deceive.
    Hello Julie

    Well certainly, it could have happened in this sort of scenario:

    Paul and John and the boys are lounging around in the cemetery smoking ciggies. Paul reads the name "Eleanor Rigby" on the gravestone and thinks, "That's a snappy name." Forgets all about it, then years later writes a song, the title of which comes from Eleanor Bron and the Rigby shop in Bristol, and it's a great combination, making for a striking name, "Eleanor Rigby" -- though he doesn't recall at that moment that he had seen the name years before in Liverpool. . .

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  7. #7
    Chris48
    Guest Chris48's Avatar

    Default

    Not convinced. Somebody get McCartney on here to explain himself.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,590
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris48 View Post
    Not convinced. Somebody get McCartney on here to explain himself.
    Mmmmm. Well you know the creative process is a complex thing, and just as I outlined it, it's possible that McCartney circa 1956 saw the name in the cemetery at St. Peter's Church and thought that "Eleanor Rigby" was a great name, and he stored it in his subconscious but on a conscious level forgot about it.

    Just think about the life the man has lived -- it was a full ten years later that he came to write the famous song.

    And in the meanwhile there was Hamburg, changes in the lineup of the Quarrymen, the change of name to The Silver Beatles, playing in Hamburg, the death of Stuart Sutcliffe, playing at the Cavern and other clubs round Liverpool, being picked up by Brian Epstein in the early sixties as "The Beatles," the first singles and LPs, America, the world, etc, etc, etc.

    Frankly I think it's a bit much to expect the man to remember that he had actually somehow remembered the name from a gravestone that he had read back in Liverpool years before, after all that water had gone under the bridge. But maybe you yourself realise that, Chris, yes?

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  9. #9
    Senior Member verdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    68
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Not that I am a song writer, but I remeber something a while ago, about the Jackie and Bridie song ' Don't want to go to Kirkby' any way the thing was where was Back Buchannon Street? There was none, it was made up to fit the song by sylable. So El-ean-or Rig-by, fits the song, unlike Cill-a Black- ! If you get my meaning. Another thing, as a kid I used to play in the cemetary at the back of the Cathedral, must have read the names thousands of times, but can't remember a one.

  10. #10
    Senior Member julieoapw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    281
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    That's how Macca said he figures it could have happened. The subconsious mind is a powerful thing and being subconscious, naturally he wouldn't remember it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hello Julie

    Well certainly, it could have happened in this sort of scenario:

    Paul and John and the boys are lounging around in the cemetery smoking ciggies. Paul reads the name "Eleanor Rigby" on the gravestone and thinks, "That's a snappy name." Forgets all about it, then years later writes a song, the title of which comes from Eleanor Bron and the Rigby shop in Bristol, and it's a great combination, making for a striking name, "Eleanor Rigby" -- though he doesn't recall at that moment that he had seen the name years before in Liverpool. . .

    Chris

  11. #11
    Chris48
    Guest Chris48's Avatar

    Default

    Maybe its just another case of made up history. In the town where I live, the claim to fame here is that Paul Simon wrote the song "Homeward bound" while waiting for a train at the railway station. They even put up a brass plaque at the said station (that got stolen) anouncing that "this is where Paul Simon wrote the song" etc. It was true that Simon came to the town and stayed for a while in th 50s playing folk clubs locally. Anyway, Simon was Interviewed recently on the Beeb and was specifically asked about this song and asked if he really did write the song at Widnes North Railway station. He said he didn't know. He said it could have been Widnes, Wigan, Warrington or even Bradford as he travelled all around! Maybe we think its true because we want to believe its true, even though maybe it's not.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,924
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Blog Entries
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris48 View Post
    Maybe its just another case of made up history. In the town where I live, the claim to fame here is that Paul Simon wrote the song "Homeward bound" while waiting for a train at the railway station. They even put up a brass plaque at the said station (that got stolen) anouncing that "this is where Paul Simon wrote the song" etc. It was true that Simon came to the town and stayed for a while in th 50s playing folk clubs locally. Anyway, Simon was Interviewed recently on the Beeb and was specifically asked about this song and asked if he really did write the song at Widnes North Railway station. He said he didn't know. He said it could have been Widnes, Wigan, Warrington or even Bradford as he travelled all around! Maybe we think its true because we want to believe its true, even though maybe it's not.
    It was mentioned on Parkinson to him, 10, 15, 20 years back and he did not deny it.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

  13. #13
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kensington, Liverpool
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,195
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

  14. #14
    Chris48
    Guest Chris48's Avatar

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    It was mentioned on Parkinson to him, 10, 15, 20 years back and he did not deny it.
    He did not confirm it on the BBC radio interview he made either.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,590
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by verdi View Post
    Not that I am a song writer, but I remeber something a while ago, about the Jackie and Bridie song ' Don't want to go to Kirkby' any way the thing was where was Back Buchannon Street? There was none, it was made up to fit the song by sylable. So El-ean-or Rig-by, fits the song, unlike Cill-a Black- ! If you get my meaning. Another thing, as a kid I used to play in the cemetary at the back of the Cathedral, must have read the names thousands of times, but can't remember a one.
    Paul has said that the working title of "Yesterday" was "Scrambled Eggs" so yes, the syllable count definitely is a factor here. As for Paul Simon getting the inspiration for "Homeward Bound" at Widnes North Railway station, I had heard that story as early as the Seventies, so possibly he said it in an interview somewhere closer to the time that he wrote the song in the Sixties when the memory was fresher in his mind. On the other hand, as he said in the later interview, he travelled around a lot to other northern towns. And I know as a writer, I might have an idea in one location but I am still working on it, and getting additional ideas, as I travel elsewhere.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Eleanor Rigby
    By john in forum Liverpool Folklore and Oddities
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-24-2006, 08:40 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68