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Thread: Liverpool Skyscraper Boom Over?

  1. #16

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    "developers would line up to do that" Really? What is stopping them from doing just that?
    They are only interested in profit and building to the size and proportion of those Georgian buildings wont make them the same (if any) profit as the Aylesbury example, which in my opinion is terrible and does not blend in with anything apart than other boring pastiche building that are slowly swamping this country.
    Liverpool can continue to grow and preserve is rich heritage but not if it believes the "beggars can’t be choosers" line. The money is at long last being spent in the city but it needs to be spent on the right quality building and not building that will become the noughtys equivalent of the 60's tower blocks.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddersUK View Post
    "developers would line up to do that" Really? What is stopping them from doing just that?
    Rodders, maybe the poor transport infrastructure? I think so. I an underground station was cut into the Wapping tunnel in the Georgian quarter, they would flock in. They need to see the city buying into matters too. Lay down the rapid rail transport infrastructure and they will come in.

    Are the developers going to spend extending the Georgian houses up to Lodge Lane and Edge Hill? Not when they see nothing being done to change those areas.

    They are only interested in profit and building to the size and proportion of those Georgian buildings wont make them the same (if any) profit as the Aylesbury example, which in my opinion is terrible and does not blend in with anything apart than other boring pastiche building that are slowly swamping this country.
    Liverpool can continue to grow and preserve is rich heritage but not if it believes the "beggars can’t be choosers" line. The money is at long last being spent in the city but it needs to be spent on the right quality building and not building that will become the noughtys equivalent of the 60's tower blocks.
    Rodders, as those large Georgian homes around Canning St are fetching premium prices I think many would like to extend them and make them just the same. Smaller Georgian houses can be built to blend in - or even larger being apartments.

    The Aylesbury example is a lot better than the tat that some dish up. The front doors are on the pavements and the new homes do match to some degree some of the older homes around. I have seen some of them. Others had railings in front, really looking good. The point is that new buildings can be built to blend in with the existing older homes.

    I would not call Brunswick Quay a 60s tower block at all. An world-class iconic building designed by the architect who came second in the World Trade Centre replacement in NY. It would totally act as a catalyst for the south end of the dock waters, attracting top-class investment. It could have been there by now. I firmly believe the rejection of this building has had a negative affect of the city. Apart from the Shanghai Tower, no new large top class developments have come forward. If the Shanghai Tower goes through excessive official hassle then the investment money will dry up for certain. Some developers are having cold feet and Central Village and others are now not that certain to go ahead. The dynamic city they saw a few years ago appears to be turning 180 degrees, so better returns elsewhere.

    I hope the LibDems get voted out - they are a wash-out. Then the new administration have a word in Maro's ear and say re-submit your tower. Maybe Maro are waiting for a regime change to see what way to go. I wouldn't blame them if they pulled out of Liverpool 100% ands sold up the land they own.

    Chris Ives, the director of the developers Maro, said in 2006: "If we had gone to Manchester, Newcastle or Leeds with this building we would probably already be on site." He expands, "Liverpool city council doesn't have any vision - they can't see around corners".

    Says it all really.
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-18-2008 at 03:04 PM.
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  3. #18
    KenO kenotoole123@msn.com's Avatar
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    Not only would the 'Brunswick Dock Building' have been an 'Iconic' Bldg.....How much has the City lost in Rates...The Rates from this building would have paid for Capital of culture year...'Three' times over!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenotoole123@msn.com View Post
    Not only would the 'Brunswick Dock Building' have been an 'Iconic' Bldg.....How much has the City lost in Rates...The Rates from this building would have paid for Capital of culture year...'Three' times over!
    Also the knock on effect of other top class proposals wanting to be around this building. They would bring in revenue and people with money and their business skills too.
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-18-2008 at 04:01 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  5. #20

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    It was not my intention to say the Brunswick Quay was a 60's tower block, I agree it would have be a great addition to Liverpool's skyline and a catalyst for further development as will the Shanghai Tower if it goes ahead.

    I'm sad to say that appointing a top architect does not always guarantee a top class design though, just look at One Park West.

    It is not just Liverpool that is suffering from developers getting cold feet, it's happening the world over at present. And i agree that the council has a lot to answer for.

    I dont see your point about a poor transport infrastructure stopping developers from building Georgian houses. They can make a bigger and quicker profit by building shoe box apartments so thats what they will do.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddersUK View Post
    I dont see your point about a poor transport infrastructure stopping developers from building Georgian houses. They can make a bigger and quicker profit by building shoe box apartments so thats what they will do.
    Many will take the easy way out. They will not move towards a few dodgy areas if they see nothing been done about them - of course they want to maximise return. If they see activity and progress in the pipeline then they will move in. If it all looks great for the future then they will act. If they see nothing they will keep away.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  7. #22

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    I agree but when the do start to develop those areas i bet you any money they wont be building new large Georgian town houses.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddersUK View Post
    It was not my intention to say the Brunswick Quay was a 60's tower block,
    Some 60s blocks should never have been demolished. We cry about the odd terraced street, but some of these blocks were superb. The three on Shiel Rd were very good looking blocks as were the same designs in the north end: St. Georges, etc. Private developers should have been given the blocks for a £1 and then they would have have made them top class.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  9. #24
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddersUK View Post
    I agree but when the do start to develop those areas i bet you any money they wont be building new large Georgian town houses.
    If the city says you have to build Georgian houses as that is the district policy, they will. It all comes back to city leadership and policy. They have to know what is important. The underground rail transport infrastructure clearly is one of the big keys to open up investment. It must be done properly not by cutting back and using cheap Mickey Mouse trams
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-18-2008 at 04:23 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  10. #25

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    Adlington House too has just recently been developed very successfully.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddersUK View Post
    Adlington House too has just recently been developed very successfully.
    Rodders, the odd few have been, but far too many good looking blocks were needlessly demolished - Shiel Rd is a decent area too with a park opposite - private developers would have taken them up. Heysmoor Heights at the end of Lodge Lane is looking great.

    The developers will not move any further into Lodge Lane as it looks like a war zone. They need to see something positive happening before they move into such an area - like an underground rapid transport station being constructed. Something permanent.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Rodders, the odd few have been, but far too many good looking blocks were needlessly demolished - Shiel Rd is a decent area too with a park opposite - private developers would have taken them up. Heysmoor Heights at the end of Lodge Lane is looking great.

    The developers will not move any further into Lodge Lane as it looks like a war zone. They need to see something positive happening before they move into such an area - like an underground rapid transport station being constructed. Something permanent.
    With respect to Sheil Road though, the blocks were demolished and sustainable social housing built in its place, its not as if the land was just landscaped over. Not all ex council blocks can be converted for those who can afford to buy.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    With respect to Sheil Road though, the blocks were demolished and sustainable social housing built in its place, its not as if the land was just landscaped over. Not all ex council blocks can be converted for those who can afford to buy.
    The existing nice looking blocks were sustainable too. The energy consumption per unit in a block is far less than a house. Also they held more people. Imagine all 3 filled with high earning people. That would improve the area and the local restaurants/pubs/cafes/shops etc. It was very foolish to demolish the 22 floor blocks in the city. Entwistle Heights at the top of Parli' was another that was ripe for a private occupation. A good looking block as well.

    Those three block would have sold as they opposite a park. What makes me think why they were demolished was to get the high earning people into the centre.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  14. #29
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    . Imagine all 3 filled with high earning people. That would improve the area and the local restaurants/pubs/cafes/shops etc. .

    Those three block would have sold as they opposite a park. What makes me think why they were demolished was to get the high earning people into the centre.
    I agree that desirable accommodation for middle-high income people has to be brought into the deprived areas to generate the demand for sustainable businesses such as cafes and shops, but should this be at the cost of driving out local residents. Those blocks were occupied and run by a local housing trust, who took the decision to demolish them and build houses in their place rather than refurbish them. Maybe a good middle ground would have been to leave one standing but whats done is done now.


  15. #30
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    I agree that desirable accommodation for middle-high income people has to be brought into the deprived areas to generate the demand for sustainable businesses such as cafes and shops, but should this be at the cost of driving out local residents.
    The decision to demolish was totally wrong. They were fine blocks indeed. They were no Piggeries. Local residents can still be accommodated locally.

    You don't want working class ghettos, and Liverpool is full of them.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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