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Thread: Liverpool Abandonment Dilapidation Dereliction

  1. #61
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    both Edge Hill
    Plimsoll St

    Hawthorne Grove

    looks like a lot of the streets around Wavertree Rd/Durning Rd way are going to be demolished. Can't see them being renovated. Shame as quite often the houses they build as replacements are smaller.


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    True, and built in 1958, an early example of a tower block.
    I wouldn't mind living in them if they were bought up and renovated. They are actually inside the park gates. A great location.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hel_hev View Post
    when i went to liverpool for a visit last year, driving from the airport , i was staying at holiday inn lime st. i think it was london rd we passed , i was surprised that alot of buildings looked Derelict . and then i was on a tour of where ringo starr used to live .. and a lot of houses there were empty .. i was suprised becoz although old , if they were fixed up, they are prob still good houses,. i heard these were rough areas ... but how rough can somewhere be with no people around ? i thought it was a waste .... old houses are always built better than new one, i heard in the ringos house area , they were going to knock everthing down to build new houses ... thought it was a shame as part of what i liked about liverpool was all the old buildings etc ...
    Ringo lived in the Welsh Streets - have Welsh street names and built by the Welsh. Many of the houses are expensive to renovate - cheaper to demolish and built modern houses with high insulation levels.

    Many are marked for demolition. In 40 years a whole Georgian/Victorian city has been demolished. Literally.
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    how it once was?


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  4. #64
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quincyg View Post

    looks like a lot of the streets around Wavertree Rd/Durning Rd way are going to be demolished. Can't see them being renovated. Shame as quite often the houses they build as replacements are smaller.
    They look in excellent condition. They have been re-pointed.
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    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  5. #65
    tattooed gt-grandma quincyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    They look in excellent condition. They have been re-pointed.
    exactly. most of the neighbouring streets are either completely boarded up or half boarded up.
    the grove is a pleasant little street, nice to see the original roadway too.

    wonder if the houses are council or landlord owned.
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  6. #66
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    These new houses might be the DIYers friend with all the plasterboard inner walls but even the breezeblock party walls seem so thin as you can hear your neighbours. Going by the insulation argument alone, the whole of the Canning area would be demolished then.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    These new houses might be the DIYers friend with all the plasterboard inner walls but even the breezeblock party walls seem so thin as you can hear your neighbours. Going by the insulation argument alone, the whole of the Canning area would be demolished then.
    The old terraces have several structural and damp problems which is not cheap to rectify. They shift a lot with having foundation about 300mm deep. People would rather live in new cheap to heat damp-less homes. That is not to say that some of these old terraces should be be preserved. They look good when all the same colour and same type of front door. But Liverpool being Liverpool there is always one Chav who paints his differently. An e.g., the Tower block Mill View had all white windows - on the top floor some nut painted his window frames "yellow" making the block look ridiculous.

    What one of the people in the Welsh Streets, which had national media coverage regarding the demolition of some streets. Not even the local papers or radio gave him any time, as he has been blocked out. A political agenda at work, with the aspirations of the locals ignored - they wanted more streets demolished and they wanted nice new homes. He said on this forum.....

    I have lived in the same Welsh Street for over 60 years and having worked as a volunteer street rep. for over 5 years on regeneration of the Princes Park area, I can tell you that the residents can't wait to move into new homes.We are fed up with all the hype about what lovely houses these are, put about by the so-called Welsh Street Homes Group, many of whose original, very few, supporters have now bought & moved into new properties on Clevedon Park, leaving only 3 residents objecting to the proposals, who all live in Kelvin Grove and DO NOT represent the Welsh Street residents

    THE FACTS ARE : 11 streets are to be demolished from one side of Kelvin Grove to Admiral Street and new housing being built on the site for local residents, including local shops. The remaining Welsh Streets - Dovey,Teilo & Elwy, houses will be refurbished, together with the streets off Windsor Street down to Upper Warwick Street.

    The Community will NOT be split up as suggested by WSHG opposition group,who have only lived in the area for about 6 years and only became involved about 18 months ago when Nina Edge became aware that her Kelvin Grove house was part of the demolition plan,who have never been involved with the community and are not known to the community, most of whom have lived here all their lives. Many residents had Improvement grants in the late 70's to have bathrooms built on & general improvements to their properties, however in spite of numerous damp proofing courses, these houses are in bad shape, now beyond saving and residents want something better & have been prepared to fight for that.

    Originally three of the streets Treborth, Pengwern & South Streets were not included in the demolition proposals, but residents of those streets fought to be included in the demolition plans and over 200 Welsh Street residents lobbyed the Town Hall meeting of the Executive Board demanding that these 3 streets be included in proposals and won their case. One of the main problems in all this has been the credence & publicity given to the opposition, whilst failing to give a truly balanced view on TV & in newspapers to the views, needs & aspirations of the wider community. However as conflict sells news, I shouldn't be surprised we have not be given fair & unbiased media time. Even the Liverpool Echo are failing to publish any of our correspondence, whilst constantly publishing that of the anti-demolition groups, even now. Despite all the hype we are now looking forward to brighter future for the Princes Park Area and it's residents in better homes & surroundings.
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    Where damp and subsidence is an issue, that of course is a different matter, however yet another t.v. documentary this week noted that the problem regarding our heritage being lost is more to do with the government slapping vat on renovation of old property whereas it doesn't with new build, therefore rendering it cheaper for redevelopers to demolish and start again. There were no such problems with that classic Edge Lane property to my knowledge as I knew 2 people who lived on different sections of that road and there, it's a case of the car being more important than the communities and the heritage.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Where damp and subsidence is an issue, that of course is a different matter, however yet another t.v. documentary this week noted that the problem regarding our heritage being lost is more to do with the government slapping vat on renovation of old property whereas it doesn't with new build, therefore rendering it cheaper for redevelopers to demolish and start again. There were no such problems with that classic Edge Lane property to my knowledge as I knew 2 people who lived on different sections of that road and there, it's a case of the car being more important than the communities and the heritage.
    Ged, the UK has the oldest and most energy inefficient housing stock in the western world. It also accounts for much of the CO2 output in heating the stuff. Renovating can only go so far. Many poorer people will be left in fuel poverty - energy costs are increasing.

    If you like the style of the terraced homes then they can be replicated, as I have seen successfully done elsewhere. Why aren't the Georgian homes being extended up from around Canning St, looking exactly the same with modern insulation levels? New Georgian homes like those in Canning St would sell like hot cakes. It is highly desirable to replace an old house which is past its sell by date and replacing it with one which looks similar to maintain the character of an area. Many old properties are best just being bulldozed.

    Ged, read this..
    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/LandArticle.html

    and then these in order....
    http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/ima...images/143.pdf
    http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/ima...images/141.pdf
    http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/ima...images/137.pdf
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-05-2008 at 01:22 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
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    how it once was?


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    I do agree that the new ones should be built in a sympathetic style, however, whilst private developments and a quick buck to be made might be, council ones certainly won't be.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    I do agree that the new ones should be built in a sympathetic style, however, whilst private developments and a quick buck to be made might be, council ones certainly won't be.
    The government tries to encourage new properties to give superior homes in energy usage, living space, etc, etc. As I have pointed out the UK has the oldest, least insulated and pokiest homes in the western world. New homes have to take priority. It is how it is implemented that is the question. Keeping outdated poor housing stock is not the answer.

    Sorting out the land and planning system is the first step. Until that is sorted we will always bee in a permanent housing crisis.
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    how it once was?


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    So the new boxes are bigger than the Edge Lane ones, Don't think so. Not all of these people even want parking facilities or a garden to maintain and is why they buy them in the first place.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    So the new boxes are bigger than the Edge Lane ones, Don't think so. Not all of these people even want parking facilities or a garden to maintain and is why they buy them in the first place.
    They are generally bigger than 2 up 2 down terraces that is for sure. See the letter from the Welsh Streets resident. People wanted new homes and petitioned to get their so-called ideal terraced homes demolished. No one wants a house with a back alley anymore. Time moves on.

    Saying that, modern homes are still tiny to homes elsewhere. See that link to "Unaffordable Housing" I gave. However that is a broader issue of planing and land usage & ownership.
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-05-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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    how it once was?


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    One myth that can be put to bed straight away is that of "rising damp". For a better explanation than I can give see:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...20/pjeff21.xml

    and

    http://www.dampbuster.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by danensis View Post
    One myth that can be put to bed straight away is that of "rising damp". For a better explanation than I can give see:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...20/pjeff21.xml

    and

    http://www.dampbuster.com/
    Jeff Howell of the Torygraph is a known true idiot. The reason they put in a damproof course is so damp will not rise.
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    chippie
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    the olnly rising damp I like is the one with Len Rossiter in it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Jeff Howell of the Torygraph is a known true idiot. The reason they put in a damproof course is so damp will not rise.
    Attacking the man does not counter his arguments.

    The Building Research Station tried to investigate this theory of rising dampness, and constructed a brick built edifice in the wettest part of their site, and waited for moisture to rise up the walls. It never did. Most of what is called "rising damp" is actually condensation due to poor ventilations. The "damp meters" beloved of surveyors are designed for measure moisture levels in timber, and are totally unsuitable for measure moisture in masonry. The only way to find out if masonry is damp is to take a sample, weigh it, dry it in a kiln, and weight it again.

    Old houses were built on a row of bricks on the ground in many areas of Liverpool, and stood (and are still standing) for over a hundred years. When they were built Britain was the heart of an empire which had at its beck and call the resources of the world. A "jerry built" house in Victorian times would be a palace these days. My house has floor joists over thirty feet long made of solid oak and with no knots in them. Rafters similarly were selected without shakes or waney edges, they could afford to pick and choose, even for artisan's dwellings. They also used lime plaster and mortar which has the property of autogenous healing, and if cracks appeared they filled them, and used anaglypta wallpaper to allow for movement. These days you get a hairline crack and people are moaning about subsidence.

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    These falling down houses are at the junction of Fountains Road and Wulstan St, off Stanley Road Kirkdale.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #79
    samanthacheryl
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    I went to see a house in Withorn Street a few years ago. I became interested because the rent was very cheap for a private landlord, I didn't know much about the Spoffoth Rd area. As I drove down Lawrence Road and saw each terraced street off it, I noticed the further I went the more houses were derelict. I felt really sad to see this.

    When we arrived there, the houses were all well kept in the street but many were derelict around it; as my dad remarked "Even the Spoffoth pub is closed!" There did not seem to be many amenities in the immediate vicinity and loads of kids hanging about. It felt like the whole area was being forgotten and just left to rot.

    I didn't take the house and I haven't visited the area since, what is happening to these houses?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danensis View Post
    Attacking the man does not counter his arguments.

    The Building Research Station tried to investigate this theory of rising dampness, and constructed a brick built edifice in the wettest part of their site, and waited for moisture to rise up the walls. It never did. Most of what is called "rising damp" is actually condensation due to poor ventilations.
    There is such a thing as rising damp. Howell said there is no such thing. There is confusion with using poor ventilation causing water vapour to condense in the building fabric.

    A "jerry built" house in Victorian times would be a palace these days. My house has floor joists over thirty feet long made of solid oak and with no knots in them. Rafters similarly were selected without shakes or waney edges, they could afford to pick and choose, even for artisan's dwellings. They also used lime plaster and mortar which has the property of autogenous healing, and if cracks appeared they filled them, and used anaglypta wallpaper to allow for movement. These days you get a hairline crack and people are moaning about subsidence.
    Victorian houses were a shambles. Only the best survive giving a slanted view of the era.

    "Jerry built" came from Liverpool builders Jerry Bros. They built nice looking facades and cheap back ends. The term came to mean shoddy workmanship.
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-07-2008 at 11:22 PM.
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    Waterways, it's amazing how those old houses withstood wartime bombings - do you think todays new builds would stand up to the same trauma ?

    just wondering

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    Waterways, it's amazing how those old houses withstood wartime bombings - do you think todays new builds would stand up to the same trauma ?

    just wondering
    Those hit or near misses collapsed. The footings are very shallow. As I said most were poorly built and only the best survive giving a slanted view.
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    I saw this today and it is so utterly unbelievable how such amazing architecture can be destroyed.

    Elm Terrace, Beech Street, L7


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    I had a friend who lived in Elm Terrace, visited a few times between 1995-1997. It is such a shame to see it like this as I always thought it was quite a nice building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    Princes Park, Ullet Road.





    Bloody hell. I photographed a pal's wedding reception in the garden here about 20 years ago. It was lived in and in good nick then, a charming little house. what the hell happened?
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    Quote Originally Posted by knowhowe View Post
    Bloody hell. I photographed a pal's wedding reception in the garden here about 20 years ago. It was lived in and in good nick then, a charming little house. what the hell happened?
    wow!
    Do you have the picture in question?

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    this is tucked away in Birchfield Rd, Walton Village




    Church Rd, Walton . this one is an old employment /council office?, reminds me of the one in Green Lane.


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
    Demolish the flat roof extension and this will make an excellent house with a big back garden.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    I saw this today and it is so utterly unbelievable how such amazing architecture can be destroyed.

    Elm Terrace, Beech Street, L7

    I know its so sad when we have all these wonderful buildings rotting away and they're throwing up "trendy" glass buildings by the dozen.
    Sad

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    Quote Originally Posted by John(Zappa) View Post
    I know its so sad when we have all these wonderful buildings rotting away and they're throwing up "trendy" glass buildings by the dozen.
    Sad
    Nothing wrong with modern advanced glass buildings. We need many, many more of them. They are superb, especially when done well. We can have both. The Liver Buildings was a trendy building at one time. So, was Oriel Chambers, which was ridiculed too - yet was the world's first steel framed glass curtain walled buildings.

    Liverpool pioneered the modern building, not Chicago, not NY - and we should encourage advanced engineering designs and architecture.

    .
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-15-2008 at 02:26 PM.
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