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Thread: who pinched all the water

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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    Default who pinched all the water


    The Prince`s Dock has been emptied in preparation for the canal link


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    Last edited by gregs dad; 02-12-2008 at 08:58 PM. Reason: should have been princes
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    , how weird does that look, great view!
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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    And looking the other way
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    Senior Member julieoapw's Avatar
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    Nice pics! Isn't that Prince's Dock though? Thought Queen's Dock was the Water Sports one.

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    I thought it would be a lot deeper than that

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disco View Post
    I thought it would be a lot deeper than that
    Click on the link in my sig and go to the canal link in the menu. A section below. The web site is to be updated soon as Peel want to fill in West Waterloo Dock again. We are being raped of our heritage. All because a large million billion pound company wants to make extra bucks charging contractor to dump waste material in the docks.


    Deep Water Vessels Cannot Berth Near the City Centre

    Liverpool is one of the few cities in the world that deep water vessels can berth in the city centre. The madness of reducing the Central Docks to inland narrowboat depths precludes visiting ships berthing at Princes and Princes Half-Tide docks. When the Tall Sailing Ships visit Liverpool many have to berth at Birkenhead. The historic ship collection at Birkenhead could have been accommodated at Princes and Princes half-Tide Docks, as they are losing their home at the East Float.

    The Manxman Steamship Co, is discussing where the SS Manxman can be permanently berthed if she is saved. Their preference was the Princes Dock's old Belfast steamship berth adjacent to the Crowne Plaza Hotel. This is now not an option. If deep water can be reinstated in Princes Dock, Princes half-Tide Dock and the Waterloo docks then it opens up options.

    The historic Battle of the Atlantic U-Boat hunter HMS Wimbrel requires a permanent berth at Liverpool. HMS Wimbrel is currently with the Egyptian navy and to be handed back to Britain when fully restored to world war two specification. The last survivor of the Battle of the Atlantic. Visiting Royal Navy and foreign naval vessels also require high profile berths, instead of the embarrassing berths amongst the giant mounds of scrap metal at the far North End commercially active docks.

    Below: HMS Wimbrel in Alexandria under renovation.


    Below: SS Manxman, the Isle of Man ferrry.


    British Waterways attempted to have West Waterloo Dock filled in and re-direct the proposed canal to one side of the currently temporary in-filled Trafalgar Dock and an in-filled West Waterloo Dock, instead of through the centre of Trafalgar Dock.

    The historic ship collection, including a World War Two U-Boat, at Birkenhead Docks is to be moved for development work. Liverpool cannot find berths for these ships because the docks near the city centre: Princes, Princes Half-Tide and West Waterloo Docks have been reduced to canal boat depths. The reduction in depth was that the deep water docks were used as a lucrative dump by developers. HMS Plymouth is wanted by the City of Plymouth and a German businessman is looking into taking the U-Boat back to Germany. It is embarrassing when a large port with half the docks redundant cannot find berths for a handful of historic ships. Ships that would add value to the maritime heritage of Liverpool.
    A fully excavated Trafalgar Dock, with West Waterloo, Princes and Princes Half-Tide Docks restored to deep water depths, will enable deep water ships to enter the whole of Central Docks from the commercial North End docks. Ships then can berth right in the city centre.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieoapw View Post
    Nice pics! Isn't that Prince's Dock though? Thought Queen's Dock was the Water Sports one.
    Sorry about that I`ve spent half of my life on both docks, I must have been
    tired
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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    It looks like it needs a good dredging or deepening first.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    It looks like it needs a good dredging or deepening first.
    Ged, they have only just filled it in. I agree the lot should be dredged back up and sea going vessels allowed to berth in those docks. We should be using them.

    The useless council allowed them to make lots of money filling in these docks. Who are the losers? Us of course.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Yes, I fully agree with your angst against filling this in and Peels proposals not to utilise the existing docks where they intend to build. I know nothing of any great depth is scheduled to pass down the new canal link but that looks a wee bit shallow to me.
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  11. #11
    PhilipG
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    I'm shocked to see it's so shallow.
    When the water's there, the average person would have no idea.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I'm shocked to see it's so shallow.
    When the water's there, the average person would have no idea.


    Look at the above. Princes, which is now virtually two docks, Princes Half-Tide, East Waterloo and West Waterloo Docks are all canal boat depths.

    Peels Liverpool Water Masterplan, above, clearly shows West Waterloo Dock filled in. The pier in orange in the river - the dock is above that clearly filled in with the canal link the only part left of it.

    The attempt to fill the dock was defeated last year, now they are at it again. They will use the whole project as leverage to get what they want. These docks were never land to begin with - they wee built out into the river.

    They should be extending the waterways to build around as this will enhance the developments - anyone with sense can see that. Except that bunch of lunatics.

    It has to be opposed at all costs. Far too many water spaces have been filled in for gross greed. Look at Kings Dock. What an abomination. That looks good? We need the complex, but not on in-filled waterspaces, and not in a prime location next to the Albert Dock.

    In 10 years that cladding is going to look real nasty as the salt winds hit it. A complex of weather beating brick Albert Dock look-alikes around the Kings Dock branches would have been superb. People living around the quays and vibrant entertainment too. Too easy isn't it.
    Last edited by Waterways; 02-13-2008 at 12:12 AM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member skgogosfan's Avatar
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    I wonder if they found anything interesting when it was drained?

    Dave.

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    Senior Member HollyBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Deep Water Vessels Cannot Berth Near the City Centre....
    So how deep was Prince's dock in its heyday?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBlack View Post
    So how deep was Prince's dock in its heyday?
    It was 25 to 27 foot deep. It could be deeper if the docks were "impounded", which is pumping water from the river to raise the level in the dock. Impounding meant larger vessels could berth and saved money on making the docks deeper. But expensive in fuel to run the pumps.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Default The extent of water space removal

    The Liverpool Waters scheme, showing the extent of the waterspace filling. It is extensive and done gradually so most don't notice. The lost water acreage is highly significant. The latest land by stealth move is to hide the filling of West Waterloo Dock in a grand pie-in-the-sky scheme. There is an abundance of land on the other side of the Dock Rd which can merge with any grand proposal. The land contains small ramshackle companies - an area that should have been cleared decades ago.

    Few of those glass block renders will be built in the Liverpool Waters scheme and the final result will not resemble that over-exaggerated proposal in any way. We will find that few will live around the quays and most given up to corporates to make money from - with the odd char-banc park on an in-filed historic dock. Don't be fooled

    Below: Central Docks 1972:


    Below, the Liverpool Waters proposal:
    Last edited by Waterways; 02-13-2008 at 11:29 AM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    This is one I took in 1966 when it was used for the Irish & IoM boats,cargo
    and passengers
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    Crackin' pic again GD.

    Here's one from NancyO's flickr set, taken in 1984.

    See the rest here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nancyo23/120947991/






    .
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    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

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    Superb pics again Jees I'm loving the site at the mo!
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

    All server & domain costs are covered by myself & kind donations of individuals.

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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    We even had the Winston Churchill visiting us in 1966
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Gregs Dad, what dock is that?
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    I presume it`s part of the Princes as the picture was taken the same time as the Irish boats pic, failing that I`d go for East or West Waterloo.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregs dad View Post

    And looking the other way
    A part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site agreement was the protection of unique dock marine life.

    The essential and unique marine life pumped from bilge tanks from all over the world, has been deliberately killed at West Waterloo, Princes and Princes Half-Tide Docks. This marine life keeps the water clean.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member disco's Avatar
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    Next thing you know they will want to fill the Mersey in

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    Quote Originally Posted by disco View Post
    Next thing you know they will want to fill the Mersey in
    Actually, filling the Great Burbo Bank to create a new port would not be a half bad idea. They would first have to change the Crosby Channel Revetment into sea-walls, that would not be unduly difficult.

    Unlike filling historic docks which is a terrible idea.

    The powers that be should say
    "We love your plan - Liverpool Waters!
    Now please go away and redraught it in a way that preserves the area and depth and quaysides of the Historic Docks so we can give it official approval".

    Ticky-tacky houseboats in Prince's Dock, grrrr. It should be restricted to vessels that are either seaworthy or historic (50+ years old).

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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    [IMG][/IMG]
    The Princes Dock canal link work yesterday,Sunday,hence no work going on.
    I`m sure the people overlooking the area would rather have a full dock of
    water to look at than a narrow ribbon of water like a canal
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregs dad View Post
    The Princes Dock canal link work yesterday,Sunday,hence no work going on.
    I`m sure the people overlooking the area would rather have a full dock of
    water to look at than a narrow ribbon of water like a canal
    It supposed to be all filled with water.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    Old capstan on the quayside of the PRINCES half tide dock. I wander how many sailing ships this has hauled through the dock
    Last edited by gregs dad; 02-19-2008 at 06:11 PM.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Gregs dad is is Princes Dock and Princes Half-Tide Dock - not Queens
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member Broliv's Avatar
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    Is there anyway we can get them to not fill in the docks and actally redevelop the area instead of destrying the city's heritage. I'm not against tall buildings, i'm not against getting rid of shanty town industrail estates. I am against a world heritage site being destroyed.

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