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Thread: Are the Irish getting remembered?

  1. #1
    Gnomie
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    Default Are the Irish getting remembered?

    Unless I have missed something

    I would like to know why the city is not marking any event to the Irish coming into this city( many by force ). A huge percentage of this city have Irish blood in them, The Irish have certainly left their mark here. I know we have the Wigwam named Paddy, but surely something should be done to mark what happened during and after the Famine.


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    Many passed through Liverpools port, and many made Liverpool their home.
    They lived in some of the worst poverty ever witnessed in this city, yet they survived, and helped shape it into what it is now.

    I just feel a bit miffed when its capital of culture and nothing seems to be getting done ( I hope im proved wrong, but please not an official Irish dance at the town hall please ) Yes I have a big Irish connection in my family still today, but im sure others must wonder why nothing is marked.?

    Dublin has the famine statues leaving the port. Liverpool could have them here arriving in their new world?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomie View Post
    Unless I have missed something

    I would like to know why the city is not marking any event to the Irish coming into this city( many by force ).
    Force? The rich of Dublin paid to get the starving people off the streets and paid for them to be sent to Liverpool. The city sent some back.

    A huge percentage of this city have Irish blood in them,
    A "huge" percentage? Well most people are of English decent, being in England that is no surprise. The next is the Welsh, being on the Welsh border that is no surprise - and the strong influence in the accent. The Welsh built many of the areas of the city. Most of Bootle and large parts of Toxteth and Walton too.

    The Irish have certainly left their mark here. I know we have the Wigwam named Paddy, but surely something should be done to mark what happened during and after the Famine.
    There is a plaque on the Clarence Dock gates. However you are right. The Irish who came to the city were in about 1.5 million - most left immediately.

    There are mass graves around the city of the people who died of disease epidemics. Not all Irish.

    Many passed through Liverpools port, and many made Liverpool their home.
    They lived in some of the worst poverty ever witnessed in this city, yet they survived, and helped shape it into what it is now.

    I just feel a bit miffed when its capital of culture and nothing seems to be getting done ( I hope im proved wrong, but please not an official Irish dance at the town hall please ) Yes I have a big Irish connection in my family still today, but im sure others must wonder why nothing is marked.?

    Dublin has the famine statues leaving the port. Liverpool could have them here arriving in their new world?
    The city could and should do more to state its role in the Irish famine...all which was not good. The city did not want to accommodate them as the city could not handle the numbers that came.
    Last edited by Waterways; 01-28-2008 at 07:18 PM.
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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    It may not be in the culture programme much as there is already the annual Irish festival

    http://www.liverpoolirishfestival.com/events.html

    Interesting point about there not being any statues, all there is are a number of heritage plaques around the the city centre especially the waterfront.

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    Senior Member shoney's Avatar
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    Liverpool is known around the world as the un-official capital of ireland

  5. #5
    Steven
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoney View Post
    Liverpool is known around the world as the un-official capital of ireland
    There are many Irish, many still living in Ireland who would agree with you there Shoney. It is true that Liverpool does have very strong links with Ireland. I had many really good evenings at the Irish Centre and was sorry to see it go.

  6. #6
    Gnomie
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    Many Irish people where forced to leave their homeland. many by the British to and the rich landowners who burnt down their homes, leaving them with no way to work and feed themselves. this forced them to go to the big cities looking for work, here they would be told their fare would be paid to Liverpool.

    they put them on coffin ships, many died on the journey , many more died in Liverpool. St Anthonys Church on Scotland road could not cope with the burials in the first year. 6 of mine, including 4 children are buried there, dying of starvation and fever.

    But hey its just the Irish innit. such a wonderful caring place is Liverpool, best people in the world eh!

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoney View Post
    Liverpool is known around the world as the un-official capital of ireland
    .. and it's also known as the capital of north Wales too

  8. #8
    Steven
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    "But hey its just the Irish innit. such a wonderful caring place is Liverpool, best people in the world eh!" Quote from Gnomie

    There is no denying that many Irish people did suffer but it's also true to say that many went to make a success of their new environment. Without a doubt, the Irish have left their stamp on Liverpool and in return we have strong ties with Ireland.
    Yes, I agree with you, even if you were having an attempt at sarcasm, "Such a wonderful caring place is Liverpool, best people in the world."

    I will take that statement one sentence further. Scousers are The Salt of the Earth.

  9. #9
    Gnomie
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    Not all Scousers are the salt of the earth, far far from it.
    most are but there are plenty of nasty people here.

    Ignoring a major part of Liverpool heritage ( The Irish ) is shamefull by this cities leaders.

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    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    What do you expect from this council? They couldn't organise an orgy in a knocking shop
    It is Accomplished

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoney View Post
    Liverpool is known around the world as the un-official capital of ireland
    That is Glasgow not Liverpool.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    .. and it's also known as the capital of north Wales too
    Those in South Wales call the North Welsh "Welsh Scousers".
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member Gerry's Avatar
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    Well as an Irishman who has a Granda that was from Liverpool I'm double blessed. Personally I don't think we the Irish need anyone anywhere to do anything during their celebrations specially for us.

    You have any celebration be that to celebrate the City of Culture, the opening of a post office or the cat having kittens and we will gladly join in and make it a real celebration.

    Party on.

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    Senior Member pasha's Avatar
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    waterways i am a scouser i live in north wales but i have never heard that one before.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomie View Post
    Not all Scousers are the salt of the earth, far far from it.
    most are but there are plenty of nasty people here.

    Ignoring a major part of Liverpool heritage ( The Irish ) is shamefull by this cities leaders.
    The Irish is a minor part in fact, after others. The famine and city's role in it should be remembered, however an Irish festival? Nah. I know of no strong Irishness in our culture. I have never been the Irish Centre and the only lasting influence from Ireland we don't really need - the Orange and the Green, which is dying and has always been confined to working class areas anyway.

    If we should celebrate a tenuous Irish connection, then we should also have one for the Welsh, Scandinavian, blacks and Orientals too.

    In short, celebrate being Liverpudlians, the port for America, and a real melting pot that resisted strong external cultural influences, developing its own.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasha View Post
    waterways i am a scouser i live in north wales but i have never heard that one before.
    I was in the Valleys and that is what they referred to the north as.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member pasha's Avatar
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    maybe they mean rhyl? that way. saying that the north think the south is more english

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    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    I know some of the area along the coast (towyn etc) is referred to as 'Little Liverpool'
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasha View Post
    maybe they mean rhyl? that way. saying that the north think the south is more english
    Or Welsh Cockneys.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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  20. #20
    Libertarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    The Irish is a minor part in fact, after others. The famine and city's role in it should be remembered, however an Irish festival? Nah. I know of no strong Irishness in our culture. I have never been the Irish Centre and the only lasting influence from Ireland we don't really need - the Orange and the Green, which is dying and has always been confined to working class areas anyway.

    If we should celebrate a tenuous Irish connection, then we should also have one for the Welsh, Scandinavian, blacks and Orientals too.

    In short, celebrate being Liverpudlians, the port for America, and a real melting pot that resisted strong external cultural influences, developing its own.
    There is a festival for 'orientals' the chinese new year, The Black community has the Carribean carnival and the Scandinavians have LFC! Ha ha

    But seriously why shouldn't there be an Irish festival? No one is saying that the Irish are the predominant ethnic background of all Scousers but there is every reason to celebrate Irish culture and remember the tragic elelments of it. Afterall there is a slavery museum at the Albert Dock, I would like to see a museum on Scotland road about Irish history.

  21. #21
    Gnomie
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    [QUOTE=Waterways;107120]T I have never been the Irish Centre and the only lasting influence from Ireland we don't really need - the Orange and the Green, which is dying and has always been confined to working class areas anyway.

    QUOTE]


    Confined to the working class areas. many of us are working class not snobs.

  22. #22
    Libertarian
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    [QUOTE=Gnomie;107148]
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    T I have never been the Irish Centre and the only lasting influence from Ireland we don't really need - the Orange and the Green, which is dying and has always been confined to working class areas anyway.

    QUOTE]


    Confined to the working class areas. many of us are working class not snobs.
    I agree. You can also be Irish middle class and successful Waterways...as many people over there and here are. Furthermore a celebration of Irishness means celebrating the best of Ireland not the terrorists,extremists or sectarians.

  23. #23
    Libertarian
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    Wouldn't it be brilliant if there was a museum of Irish history on the site where the best way is. Imagine a stunning piece of architecture there as you drove into the city with a park.

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    Steven
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    Libertarian has made statements which are to be applauded

  25. #25
    Libertarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    Libertarian has made statements which are to be applauded
    Thank you Steven I really do hope we can now call a truce! I respect your posts and you seem like a nice person, I am not a nasty person just opionated.

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    Senior Member molly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    The Irish is a minor part in fact, after others. The famine and city's role in it should be remembered, however an Irish festival? Nah. I know of no strong Irishness in our culture. I have never been the Irish Centre and the only lasting influence from Ireland we don't really need - the Orange and the Green, which is dying and has always been confined to working class areas anyway.

    If we should celebrate a tenuous Irish connection, then we should also have one for the Welsh, Scandinavian, blacks and Orientals too.

    In short, celebrate being Liverpudlians, the port for America, and a real melting pot that resisted strong external cultural influences, developing its own.



    As and Irish person The Orange and the Green will never go away but they can learn to live in peace.

    As for it being confined to Working Class Areas thats just rubbish. I find that very offensive.
    100% Irish

  27. #27
    Libertarian
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    of course any museum of Irish culture should not merely be confined to irish catholics although we did play a major part in developing the national consciousness. Irish Protestants played a massive role in Liverpool and America, and still do. The dissenting tradition is a massive force for good in Liverpool and any mueum could recognise and hope to heal the sectarianism in the past in this city and its links to the troubles in the recent past in ireland.

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    I reckom we're all just mongrels.
    Having always known that my family, on my father's side, where from Greystones (just outside Bray) I consider my heritage to be Irish. I was shocked to learn, a few years ago, that my family moved from Yorkshire to Ireland in the 1700's (no idea why). I've always thought of myself as a Lancashire lad, as that is where Liverpool was when I was born.
    I now know I'm originally a Yorkie - oh the shame of it!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    There is a festival for 'orientals' the chinese new year, The Black community has the Carribean carnival and the Scandinavians have LFC! Ha ha

    But seriously why shouldn't there be an Irish festival? No one is saying that the Irish are the predominant ethnic background of all Scousers but there is every reason to celebrate Irish culture and remember the tragic elelments of it. Afterall there is a slavery museum at the Albert Dock, I would like to see a museum on Scotland road about Irish history.

    There is an Irish festival, and it happens every year, not just 2008.

    http://www.liverpoolirishfestival.com/

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    And the Institute of Irish Studies at the University of Liverpool.

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