Demolishing arguments

[Max]

She has also always stood up to the yobs who have moved into the area

Little coward yobs!

[lindylou]

PS. I know Liz Pascoe personally. She is a brave woman who despite being crippled with arthritis recently gained an honours degree and went on to commence PhD research which she had to abandon due to the stress of the situation she found herself in. She has also always stood up to the yobs who have moved into the area (often placing herself at personal risk). I wish her well and hope that the future holds something better for her, though that will be dependent upon what LLDC decide to do with the surrounding properties that have already been vacated and boarded-up.

She sounds like a marvellous woman Howie.

[Waterways]

The whole issue of regeneration is about social engineering or class clensing,

That is a novel idea. I thought it was about getting the infrastructure, standard of accomodation and economy up to date. Silly me.

I've been through it and know fully well what it's about. Remember the Jewish ghettoes in the 1940's the Jews (the target social group) were impoverished forced into rundown parts of cities, isolated and the downward cycle of deprevation continued, it was planned, then those ghettoes were cleared out, the people sent away to concentration or work camps, these neighbourhoods were then flattened or in the case of Warsaw (after the Ghetto uprising) bombed by the luftwaffe and attacked by tanks.

Is Tony Blair going to do that in Liverpool 8 because it need regenerating?

Up in North East the 'Going for Growth' project proposed by the council in 2000/2001 had plans to demolish housing that had only been built 5/7 years earlier, it's simple capitalism destory and rebuild, like in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Iraq, you destroy buildings and then rebuild them you create profit for corporations.

The UK has the oldest, pokiest, least energy efficient hosing stock in the western world. There are better ways to create a large construction industry.

Here in Liverpool it's division, individualism and selling your community out for your 12 pieces of silver. We don't hear about the victory of a community group or the collective fight back, we hear of individuals, the named homeowners usually middle class (Liz Pascoe - Edge Lane, Nina Edge - Welsh Streets) etc. The working class tenant activists don't get the headlines, don't get the support or respect, don't get our letters published in the Echo, what we get is contempt, police harassment, threats and abuse, in short the iron heel upon our face.

I agree in demolishing all those old energy inefficient houses.

For me it's never been about bricks and mortar, it's been about community and people, which is about a shared belonging, it's about respect and acceptance by your neighbours, it's where you do look out for one another which is an alien concept to the middle class.

I would disagree with that.

I was part of community fightback which saved 60 houses on the Pinehurst estate back in 1998, we also saved hundreds of houses from demolition in Norris Green, similar to Boot houses on the estate action area, they upgraded and the council (despite wanting them flattened) received an award for their improvements.

Disgusting. Those people could have been living in proper houses and not pay a fortune in gas for heating.

Given the choice between a poor house in a community I know, where people still look out for one another and one with all the modern conveniences in a strange neighbourhood I know what I prefer,

He thinks that new communities are soulless and the people uncaring, and only old houses in working class communities make caring people. How strange.

I've actually had the choice. A nice council house in a working class village (ooh the country, the middle class idyll) and our former Boot house in Norris Green I know which I preferred.

In the 1920-30s Norris Green was regarded as a soulless out of town estate. Now it is Dodge City.

We weren't given a choice tolerate the 'stooge' (protected by council and police) anti-social tenant, drug dealer threatening our family, wearing us down with constant rows and noise or move out. We lost our friends, neighbours and everything we knew. When we moved back 18months later the estate was already starting to be demolished, we even saw our family home demolished.

Many of those damp, pokey, energy inefficient homes should have gone years ago.

I've kept in touch with a lot other working class tenant activists across Merseyside and beyond. In short it's a class war...

It is? Putting people in superior accommodation is a class war?

What about the High Rise Tower blocks? The forgotten battle for tenants to get their homes upgraded, who were lied to, misled (Moderate Labour council in 1992) and ultimately forced out of them and dispersed.

The high rises were too expensive to maintain. Well many of them were. They were not suited to the class of people who they put in them.

It's never been about the condition of the housing, that's a complete ruse, it's about the class (or socio-economics) who live in them.

Do you mean the government has an agenda to move working class people from one working class area to another and each time give them superior cheaper to run homes as well? I never. How disgusting!

If you don't like all this improving of the quality of life of working class people, then go and buy your own house in war zone.

[snappel]

It's never been about the condition of the housing, that's a complete ruse, it's about the class (or socio-economics) who live in them.

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory or some new wave of social cleansing. It's only logical that working class housing will often be older and of a poorer quality than other housing. Not sure how Jews in Poland fit in with this - I mean, it's not like our local authorities are shepherding Liverpool residents into death camps is it? Yes, there are issues on house valuations and offers, etc, but I think your comparisons there were a bit extreme.

You named two middle-aged home-owners fighting to keep their homes - surely if the council/government were only attacking working class homes, this would never have been an issue in the first place?

[wallasey]

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory or some new wave of social cleansing. It's only logical that working class housing will often be older and of a poorer quality than other housing. Not sure how Jews in Poland fit in with this - I mean, it's not like our local authorities are shepherding Liverpool residents into death camps is it? Yes, there are issues on house valuations and offers, etc, but I think your comparisons there were a bit extreme.

You named two middle-aged home-owners fighting to keep their homes - surely if the council/government were only attacking working class homes, this would never have been an issue in the first place?

They're of better quality than the crap they put up now!

For one, these houses wern't built to finincial constraints as experianced today. Also they didn't have the government interfereing in how things turn out unlike what we are experiancing today! However, I do think that the likes of Lake Street in Anfield needed to come down as they were literally to small and too narrow. I wonder if you could have spread your arms out and touched both sides of the house?

Btw; With Edge Lane in doubt, what's happening to the Welsh Streets? is there any liklihood that the houses will be refurbished?

[Kev]

THE country’s top housing minister today told Welsh Street protesters – you have lost the argument.

Housing minister Baroness Andrews spoke out as she officially launched the new Clevedon Park estate in Toxteth, earmarked for former residents.

She said housing demolition opponents would be won over when they saw the modern flats and homes built to replace ageing terraces.

But campaigners today hit back, saying the need to refurbish Victorian streets was stronger than ever due to rising house prices.The ECHO revealed yesterday that the first residents have moved into Clevedon Park, where 105 of 107 new homes will be filled by families from the neighbouring Welsh Streets.

Baroness Andrews, who was raised in a small terraced house in south Wales, said: “People tell me they are dancing for joy because they can see all the ideas discussed for so long finally coming to reality.

“It has been a slow process, but it makes it easier for everyone if they can see what the new houses look like and how much better they are. continues....

[welstres]

I have lived in the same Welsh

Street for over 60 years and having worked as a volunteer street rep. for over 5 years on regeneration of the Princes Park area, I can tell you that the

residents can't wait to move into new homes.We are fed up with all the hype about what lovely houses these are, put about by the so-called Welsh Street

Homes Group, many of whose original, very few, supporters have now bought & moved into new properties on Clevedon Park, leaving only 3 residents objecting to

the proposals, who all live in Kelvin Grove and DO NOT represent the Welsh Street residents

THE FACTS ARE : 11 streets are to be demolished from one

side of Kelvin Grove to Admiral Street and new housing being built on the site for local residents,including local shops.
The remaining Welsh Streets-

Dovey,Teilo & Elwy, houses will be refurbished,together with the streets off Windsor Street down to Upper Warwick Street.

The Community will NOT be

split up as suggested by WSHG opposition group,who have only lived in the area for about 6 years and only became involved about 18 months ago when Nina Edge

became aware that her Kelvin Grove house was part of the demolition plan,who have never been involved with the community and are not known to the

community,most of whom have lived here all their lives.
Many residents had Improvement Grants in the late 70's to have bathrooms built on & general

improvements to their properties,however in spite of numerous damp proofing courses,these houses are in bad shape, now beyond saving and residents want

something better & have been prepared to fight for that.
Originally three of the streets Treborth,Pengwern & South Streets were not included in the

demolition proposals,but residents of those streets fought to be included in the demolition plans and over 200 Welsh Street residents lobbyed the Town Hall

meeting of the Executive Board demanding that these 3 streets be included in proposals and won their case.
One of the main problems in all this has been

the credence & publicity given to the opposition, whilst failing to give a truly balanced view on TV & in newspapers to the views, needs & aspirations of the

wider community.However as conflict sells news,I shouldn't be surprised we have not be given fair & Unbiased media time. Even the Liverpool Echo are failing

to publish any of our correspondence, whilst constantly publishing that of the anti- demolition groups,even now.
Despite all the hype we are now looking

forward to brighter future for the Princes Park Area and it's residents in better homes & surroundings.

[Waterways]

I have lived in the same Welsh Street for over 60 years and having worked

as a volunteer street rep. for over 5 years on regeneration of the Princes Park area, I can tell you that the residents can't wait to move into new homes.We

are fed up with all the hype about what lovely houses these are, put about by the so-called Welsh Street Homes Group, many of whose original, very few,

supporters have now bought & moved into new properties on Clevedon Park, leaving only 3 residents objecting to the proposals, who all live in Kelvin Grove

and DO NOT represent the Welsh Street residents

THE FACTS ARE : 11 streets are to be demolished from one side of Kelvin Grove to Admiral Street and

new housing being built on the site for local residents,including local shops.
The remaining Welsh Streets- Dovey,Teilo & Elwy, houses will be

refurbished,together with the streets off Windsor Street down to Upper Warwick Street.

The Community will NOT be split up as suggested by WSHG

opposition group,who have only lived in the area for about 6 years and only became involved about 18 months ago when Nina Edge became aware that her Kelvin

Grove house was part of the demolition plan,who have never been involved with the community and are not known to the community,most of whom have lived here

all their lives.
Many residents had Improvement Grants in the late 70's to have bathrooms built on & general improvements to their properties,however in

spite of numerous damp proofing courses,these houses are in bad shape, now beyond saving and residents want something better & have been prepared to fight

for that.
Originally three of the streets Treborth,Pengwern & South Streets were not included in the demolition proposals,but residents of those streets

fought to be included in the demolition plans and over 200 Welsh Street residents lobbyed the Town Hall meeting of the Executive Board demanding that these 3

streets be included in proposals and won their case.
One of the main problems in all this has been the credence & publicity given to the opposition,

whilst failing to give a truly balanced view on TV & in newspapers to the views, needs & aspirations of the wider community.However as conflict sells news,I

shouldn't be surprised we have not be given fair & Unbiased media time. Even the Liverpool Echo are failing to publish any of our correspondence, whilst

constantly publishing that of the anti- demolition groups,even now.
Despite all the hype we are now looking forward to brighter future for the Princes

Park Area and it's residents in better homes & surroundings.

Sense at last. The Welsh Streets are not wonderful examples of architecture at

all. They are terraced houses. Emergency houses to house people quickly in the 1800s. The new homes will be bigger and cheaper to run, and look

better.

All this has been political clap-trap to get at the government for no apparent reason that they are doing a decent job.

[AK1]

Sense at last. The

Welsh Streets are not wonderful examples of architecture at all. They are terraced houses. Emergency houses to house people quickly in the 1800s. The new

homes will be bigger and cheaper to run, and look better.

All this has been political clap-trap to get at the government for no apparent reason that

they are doing a decent job.

I agree 100%!!!!! I hate the british media and I never believe a thing they say, as all they ever report is bad

news and give completely one-sided, negative views on everything. You should always question everything that the media reports as it is always blown out of

proportion and often just blatant lies.

[snappel]

When is it due to begin? I wouldn't mind getting some photos of the streets before they're destroyed.

[Waterways]

When is

it due to begin? I wouldn't mind getting some photos of the streets before they're destroyed.

The map is interactive - just click on the

arrows.

http://www.toxteth.net/maps/liverpool/lpool3d.htm

What made them more

attractive than the average terraced street was that many had wide roads and were tree lined.

[Howie]

What's happening to

Housing?



Construction work seems to be taking place on every

corner of Liverpool city centre, tarting up town in time for the Capital of Culture celebrations in 2008. But within easy walking distance of this rich

man's paradise project, squalid homes are being starved of repair money, whilst more than adequate social housing dwellings are torn down. What is the Lib

Dem(olition) council's agenda? Why, profits of course! All the rich newcomers will need somewhere to live, so working class people have to pay with their

homes! But campaigners are fighting back...

Read more >>

[A.D.Williams]

When is it due to begin? I wouldn't mind getting some photos of the streets before they're destroyed.

Good

idea.

[Harry]

These streets are slummy piles of rotten, sh*t-brown, decayed bricks that somehow missed the slum clearances of the 60's and 70's, not the

working class Disneyland of ancient community as portrayed by the heritage brigade from their safe boxes in the suburbs.
Bulldoze them now, its making me

sick looking at them.

[Kev]

CAMPAIGNERS today won a major victory in the battle to save hundreds of homes in Liverpool's Edge Lane. more