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Thread: Tribeca [Great George Street Project]

  1. #16

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    You had better lock up the planning department and the clients first.
    They are the ones with no design training who give everything the green light.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?...000000014585e2

    Looks like the Parliament St underground station will have to be brought back into use.
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  3. #18
    Junior Member Harry's Avatar
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    I think this looks fantastic.
    What's the matter with everyone?
    We seem to have arrived at a point where nothing pleases anyone.
    Vast areas of the city have been a dump since the old ways of shipping collapsed half a century ago. There is nothing wrong with building places for people to live, cities are nothing without people. Virtually everything (pubs, libraries, schools, doctors, hospitals, shops, bus routes etc) have collapsed in north Liverpool because of the lack of people! You can walk from Bootle to Liverpool city centre along Netherfield Road and not pass a single person on the way.
    It seems to me that if any new development is not two stories high, square or rectangular and made of ugly red brick, people complain.
    The attitude of too many people within the city is backward: no wonder we still have large pockets of the worst deprivation of any British city.
    I think this is perfect in scale and design for this southern entrance to city centre. Well done to the council for giving it planning permission.

  4. #19
    John(Zappa)
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    To me it looks like Tellytubby land and buildings.Put a lambanana there!

  5. #20
    John(Zappa)
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    Quote Originally Posted by danensis View Post
    I visited Liverpool briefly last November, for the first time in twenty years or so.

    Apart from the developers appearing to have succeeded where the Luftwaffe failed, the sad thing to me was that, in most of the new development, it looked just like every other city centre. I could have been anywhere. I walked down Duke Street, and all those characterful warehouses and merchant's houses were still derelict, and many had been cleared and replaced by anonymous red brick and glass boxes.

    I think perhaps we should lock up all the architects in an asylum somewhere and give them a kiddies construction kit, and leave design to someone who knows what a home should look like.

    John
    Well said

  6. #21
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    I think this looks fantastic.
    What's the matter with everyone?
    We seem to have arrived at a point where nothing pleases anyone.
    Vast areas of the city have been a dump since the old ways of shipping collapsed half a century ago. There is nothing wrong with building places for people to live, cities are nothing without people. Virtually everything (pubs, libraries, schools, doctors, hospitals, shops, bus routes etc) have collapsed in north Liverpool because of the lack of people! You can walk from Bootle to Liverpool city centre along Netherfield Road and not pass a single person on the way.
    It seems to me that if any new development is not two stories high, square or rectangular and made of ugly red brick, people complain.
    The attitude of too many people within the city is backward: no wonder we still have large pockets of the worst deprivation of any British city.
    I think this is perfect in scale and design for this southern entrance to city centre. Well done to the council for giving it planning permission.
    The plans look fine to me. They may as well built something there as leave it looking the way it does now.

    You are right about saying you can walk along Netherfield rd and not see a soul. It's got a desolate feel about the place. No life or atmosphere.

  7. #22
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    I often walk up and down there looking for someone but i've just heard the prozzies have been moved to by Crown Street, is this right Chippie?
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  8. #23
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    ...What's the matter with everyone?...It seems to me that if any new development is not two stories high, square or rectangular and made of ugly red brick, people complain....
    Agree. If some people want to live in two storey noddy boxes then they should, but not IN the city - this is what suburbs are for. Set aside the newness of the architecture and look at what it does - I really like the scale onto the street. It looks like part of a city. If anything I would close the gaps between the buildings to make it look denser and build more where the garden is shown (4/5 storeys, family homes, granny flats, local schools, doctors, a pub...)

    I think the Eldonian Village (which everyone loves) is literally a waste of space in the city and the Park Road housing area (Cornwallis estate??) the same.

    This scheme is a great move for this part of town and I do hope it and others will get James Street Station open in a hub of lively streets.

  9. #24
    Senior Member AK1's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    There is no doubt that there are areas of the ity that look like they could be anywhere, this has always been the case for 100's of years, no matter what city your in. It is also the case that alot of areas are very unique and have unique buildings such as unity, beetham west, the arena, new museum, chavasse park and numerous older buildings such as the cathedrals.

  10. #25
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danensis View Post
    ...I think perhaps we should lock up all the architects in an asylum somewhere and give them a kiddies construction kit, and leave design to someone who knows what a home should look like...
    I am very happy that you alone amongst the world's great thinkers on the subject know precisely what a home should look like and that you are so absolutely sure that everyone agrees with you. Perhaps you might tell us what such a home might look like so that we can marvel at your brilliance.

  11. #26
    PhilipG
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    Quote: from Ged:
    "Yeah, that tall being might be a bit too tall for that area and why does it have an aeroplane going through it?"

    I agree the tower is too tall.
    The former bank will still be the most interesting building from that angle, but I quite like the render.
    The hoardings have just been put up, so it looks like it might actually happen.
    Why "Tribeca"?

    Why the areoplane?
    Well, the 9/11 tribute panels are still there (until they fade away).



    Quote: From Petromax:
    "I think the Eldonian Village (which everyone loves) is literally a waste of space in the city and the Park Road housing area (Cornwallis estate??) the same."

    The above are not in the "City".
    The Eldonian is justly praised.
    Why don't you like it?

    I don't know what housing in Park Road you're referring to (none is called Cornwallis), but I'd be more than happy to live in anything that's been built recently in (or near) Park Road.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 05-03-2008 at 10:36 PM.

  12. #27
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Someone on another site is also advocating the destruction of a residential area on byrom street because this too is in the city centre. Generations of residents who've lived in this area since the courts are still living here and don't want their homes bulldozed for what... more high rise apartment blocks that won't be for them or office blocks that have never existed in that area in the first place? The Eldonian is built on what was Tate & Lyle - short on that coming back, what else deserves to be there. Since Bootle (and therefore Sefton) is beyond the boundary at Kirkdale to the north, the city is heavily weighted to the south and east of the city centre anyway.
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  13. #28
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Someone on another site is also advocating the destruction of a residential area on byrom street because this too is in the city centre. Generations of residents who've lived in this area since the courts are still living here and don't want their homes bulldozed for what... more high rise apartment blocks that won't be for them or office blocks that have never existed in that area in the first place? The Eldonian is built on what was Tate & Lyle - short on that coming back, what else deserves to be there. Since Bootle (and therefore Sefton) is beyond the boundary at Kirkdale to the north, the city is heavily weighted to the south and east of the city centre anyway.
    This is a good question. It needs a full answer but I'll be as quick as I can here.

    When this city was truly wealthy and prosperous the land at both the 'justly praised' Eldonian Village and the Park Road housing was in the engine room of the city's economy.

    Tate and Lyle was a significant contributor to the economic health and wealth of the city but even at that, was just a part of a great port hinterland stretching from the Victorian city centre to (just south of) Seaforth. Similarly in the south, Park Road was at the very start of the commercial success of the port. The previous value of the land as a power house of the city's economy was not incalculable, but it was huge.

    Looking at the relative value of the land now and its contribution to the wealth of the city, let's say for the sake of argument, that an acre in the Eldonian Village is worth £1m. So that's an indirect contribution to the city purse, for the good of the area, of rates on a £1m. Permanent jobs created? - a few, painters decorators, plumbers; Shopkeeper jobs? - no, no shops. Teachers? - no, no schools (except a nursery school); so maybe some but not much, let's say it's negligible in a broader context (although significant for the few that work there). The number of people housed in above-average accommodation with gardens and good services - a few hundred? a thousand or so? Value as a source of significant employment and raising the profile of the city as a serious place in which to invest - nil.

    Simplistically, it's worth to the well-being of the city is - good homes for a thousand or so and rates on a £1m, give or take.

    If we want the city to stay where it is then there'll be more of this (maybe, but without inward investment doubtful) and that's all we can do. Carry on to fill all this former wealth-creating land with low-contribution housing and you might end up with a slightly bigger population on a slow decline to nowhere when the subsidies run out.

    If however you want the city to be great and prosperous again you could think about regenerating the area on a more sustainable scale.

    Unfortunately and as you imply, we don't refine sugar anymore, so that's not coming back, but there are new economies. Let's say sufficient interest was attracted to develop the same land to create housing for 10 times the number of people and five times the number of jobs in the 'Knowledge Economy' (for one); More good housing? - yes. More jobs? - yes (and spin-offs in new schools, shops, health clinics, libraries, pubs, betting shops, laundrettes, dry cleaners...). Higher profile in an international market for investment? - yes, and a city back on the road (but this time with a better distribution of wealth)

    If people want to live in suburban houses, then fine - they will be welcomed in suburbia. Building low-value use on potential high value property is the economy of the madhouse. And we all know who we have to thank for this particular strand of insanity.

    The economic centre needs critical mass to be successful. It is no place for noddy boxes. Byrom Street as for Eldonian Village. The underutilisation of this land for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many is selfish.

  14. #29
    PhilipG
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    Hi Petromax.

    So, instead of building houses on sites in the inner cities, what are you suggesting should be built instead?

    It sounds like you're suggesting industrial sites.
    Admittedly the Eldonian Village was built on the Tate & Lyle site, but even you admit sugar refining won't be returning to Liverpool.
    Nor will most of the other industries which have vanished.

    Quote:
    "Similarly in the south, Park Road was at the very start of the commercial success of the port. The previous value of the land as a power house of the city's economy was not incalculable, but it was huge."

    This needs some explanation, please.
    Park Road was always a shopping area, with the neighbourhood being mainly residential.
    Apart from flour milling and Cains (which I'm charitably including as "Park Road", even though they're not) the area was never as you describe it.

    Tourism, demolition and new buildings seem to be the way Liverpool is heading.
    Certainly in the City Centre.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 05-04-2008 at 09:21 PM.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Samp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post






    http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?...000000014585e2

    Looks like the Parliament St underground station will have to be brought back into use.

    It looks like a film set for Lord of the Rings!

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