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Thread: The Man In The Cylinder

  1. #31
    Senior Member lindac8941's Avatar
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    Tom Slemen did write about this man in a cylinder. I remember reading it, but cant remember which volume of Tom`s books it was in.


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  2. #32
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    This could be an interesting thread if we could unearth a few more facts about it? I've never heard of this story before. It sounds fascinating though.

  3. #33
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Crime scene 1906 for the Yo investigation underway?

    1906 OS map, part extract from Godfrey Ed.

  4. #34
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Crime scene 1906 for the Yo investigation underway?

    1906 OS map, part extract from Godfrey Ed.

  5. #35
    Member bidston's Avatar
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    similar to the old sealed Egyptian jar that was found in Liverpool, they took it to Liverpool museum who opened it, inside was a cotton cloth of some kind, turned out to be a sanitary towel that was thousands of years old, definitely Egyptian but not sure what period it came from

  6. #36
    Senior Member lindac8941's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bidston View Post
    similar to the old sealed Egyptian jar that was found in Liverpool, they took it to Liverpool museum who opened it, inside was a cotton cloth of some kind, turned out to be a sanitary towel that was thousands of years old, definitely Egyptian but not sure what period it came from
    yuk. Why would anyone want to keep that? Egyption or not? ha ha ha.

  7. #37
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindac8941 View Post
    yuk. Why would anyone want to keep that? Egyption or not? ha ha ha.
    It's a gag Linda..

  8. #38
    Senior Member lindac8941's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    It's a gag Linda..
    yes I know Pablo. ha ha ha

  9. #39
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindac8941 View Post
    yes I know Pablo. ha ha ha
    Just took you a while...

  10. #40
    Senior Member lindac8941's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    Just took you a while...

    Well I have only just got up. Couldnt sleep last night, still awake at 2.30, then had to be up for work this morning at 6am. Alarm went off, so I changed it to 6.30am. Took my time, as I am so tired. Got a very hard day today, as I am on with my boss, dont finish till 10am tomorrow and I could just go back to sleep now even.

  11. #41
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    You have a good day then. Get yourself an early night.

  12. #42
    Senior Member johnny blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Crime scene 1906 for the Yo investigation underway?

    1906 OS map, part extract from Godfrey Ed.
    Indeed a crime scene , however is this scene 1 or scene 2, or in fact a crime ?. The original location of death or when placed into the capsule would be the first crime scene, so lets look at Clifton Road, is this where it all went horribly wrong ?, was it intended as a temporary hiding place from his creditors ?, eventually becoming his coffin. He was obviously assisted by an associate, maybe a family member or business partner who else could have nailed the lids down ? .

    It would be interesting to see it the capsule/coffin had any breath holes ,although we have evidence of domestic comforts....... bedding and pillow.

    Could it be that his death was a terrible accident , his associate in a panic , realising what had happened, took the body contained in the capsule by horse and cart from Clifton Road eventually burying it at its place of discovery .

    Just a thought

  13. #43
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Hi Johnny,

    Sorry, I haven't got the map for Clifton Road, Everton.

    Fulford Street: he's not too far from Skirving street, home of the black widows, and their life insurance scams. I wonder whether insurance was a motivation? His wife, or business partner may have discovered another way to pay off his creditors. I'd expect the insurers would want to see a body before paying out though? Maybe he was just lying low for a while, avoiding his creditors and he accidentially suffocated?

    Accidents do happen...but our minds always want to build a more sinister case.

  14. #44
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    If it's the Clifton rd I know, it's in Tuebrook.

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    Senior Member johnny blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Hi Johnny,

    Sorry, I haven't got the map for Clifton Road, Everton.

    Fulford Street: he's not too far from Skirving street, home of the black widows, and their life insurance scams. I wonder whether insurance was a motivation? His wife, or business partner may have discovered another way to paid off his creditors. I'd expect the insurers would want to see a body before paying out though? Maybe he was just lying low for a while, avoiding his creditors and he accidentially suffocated?

    Accidents do happen...but our minds always want to build a more sinister case.
    Of course Dazza, its human nature, never thought about those orrible black widows from nearby skirving street having something to do with it, he he , someone trying to stitch them up by dumpin the capsule on there doorstep.

    Joking aside , I think it was an accidental death,

  16. #46
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    By Newsham Park, that's what I was thinking Lindy? It does say Everton though, is this a mistake?

  17. #47
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny blue View Post
    Joking aside , I think it was an accidental death,
    Me too. But how do you explain the cylinder being shut from the outside? In the OP it says he was a 'tallow dealer in the city'.......maybe he was attempting to make himself into the world's largest candle?

  18. #48
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    By Newsham Park, that's what I was thinking Lindy? It does say Everton though, is this a mistake?
    Clifton rd is not near Everton.

  19. #49
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Sorry Lindy. It originally reported as "Clifton Road, Anfield" by Richard Whittington-Egan [not Everton] my mistake. I can't find a current record for it, only the one by Newsham Park.



    Originally posted by Ged.

    By Richard Whittington-Egan.

    The discovery: Friday 13th July 1945.
    The location: The corner of Fulford street and Great Homer Street.
    Date of death - circa July 4th 1885.
    Identified as: (probably) Thomas Cregeen Williams. (paperwork in pocket)
    Resided at: 29 Clifton Road, Anfield.
    Married to: Elizabeth Lea (died aged 42 - buried at Anfield Cemetery)
    Place of work: Owned T.C. Williams & Co. paintworks at 18-20 Leeds st.
    Cause of death: Unknown.
    Reason for death: Possible suicide as he was being inspected by accountants.
    OR/: Possible accident as the result of crawling in there to sleep.

  20. #50
    Senior Member Lil V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Hi Johnny,

    Sorry, I haven't got the map for Clifton Road, Everton.

    Fulford Street: he's not too far from Skirving street, home of the black widows, and their life insurance scams. I wonder whether insurance was a motivation? His wife, or business partner may have discovered another way to pay off his creditors. I'd expect the insurers would want to see a body before paying out though? Maybe he was just lying low for a while, avoiding his creditors and he accidentially suffocated?

    Accidents do happen...but our minds always want to build a more sinister case.
    A great story... and a classic example of how an active imagination can fuel wild, unjustified speculation! - And how do you explain that the container was allegedly sealed from the outside?

  21. #51
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil V View Post
    A great story... and a classic example of how an active imagination can fuel wild, unjustified speculation! - And how do you explain that the container was allegedly sealed from the outside?
    Don't knock an active imagination....some of my best ideas come from there. Well, if you read again, I did say "his wife, or business partner" first....aledging that our man in the cylinder was the victim here.

    Following it with "Maybe he was just lying low for a while, avoiding his creditors and he accidentially suffocated?" was a bit of a throwaway remark, which I'm now throwing away.

    Why do I feel like I've just received an 'F'

  22. #52
    Senior Member johnny blue's Avatar
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    Just because the lids were nailed down does not prove murder, all they have done is fail to disclose to the coroner of an accidental death, and out of pure panic, feeling scared and maybe responsible for the accidental demise of the victim, nailed down the lids and buried him in L5.

  23. #53
    Senior Member Lil V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Don't knock an active imagination....some of my best ideas come from there. Well, if you read again, I did say "his wife, or business partner" first....aledging that our man in the cylinder was the victim here.

    Following it with "Maybe he was just lying low for a while, avoiding his creditors and he accidentially suffocated?" was a bit of a throwaway remark, which I'm now throwing away.

    Why do I feel like I've just received an 'F'
    I wasn't wanting to knock imagination at all - where would any worthwhile tale be without it? But I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that this thread was started by someone who wanted to get to the truth of the matter. Maybe it should have been posted as a History thread rather than Folklore in that case. I think we are getting plenty of good stories here. But if it's history we're researching, and not just enjoying a weird tale, then we need proper evidence.

  24. #54
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    The childrens playground seen here in 1966 at the foot of Marwood Tower is built over Fulford Street. That is a concrete pipe for playing in btw - not the cylinder



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    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  25. #55
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    They don't make play areas like that no more Ged.

  26. #56
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Coz you got bruised to death in them Pablo...AAAAW such good times
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  27. #57
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Coz you got bruised to death in them Pablo...AAAAW such good times
    Ours had a big swinging board with about 11 kids hanging on. The big kids would pussh it higher and higher untill a small child got caught in the gubbins or fell off. Another was a revloving pyrmid thing that went up and down and round and round. Pure death machine.

    Great stuff...

  28. #58
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny blue View Post
    Just because the lids were nailed down does not prove murder, all they have done is fail to disclose to the coroner of an accidental death, and out of pure panic, feeling scared and maybe responsible for the accidental demise of the victim, nailed down the lids and buried him in L5.
    Could be JB, we can't rule anything out at the moment.

    Just a thought, did the Methodist Church on Back Boundary Street [formally Croston Street] have a graveyard? Another long shot. Could he have been buried in the cylinder, as a makeshift coffin, supplied by his tallow business? It may have been one of the vats for boiling down the animal fats? The bedding and pillow was provided to stop the body moving around, and to give some dignity to the interment. He probably had no money left in his estate, due to the bankruptcy proceedings, so used what was available.

    A few problems with this theory - I'll go first: was there a churchyard on this site? why at this particular church & location when he lived in Anfield? he was reported missing intially...therefore, he'd have to be missing first, then to have commited suicide or died, and later buried in the cylinder.

    How on earth did that cylinder end up being buried here?



    Boundary Street East Methodist Church (formerly Primitive Methodist, and formerly called Pentecost, Croston Street)
    Date 1888 - 1952

    AdminHistory This church was opened in 1860 to serve the north end of the town, largely on the initiative of the Rev. James Farmer. It absorbed the remnants of the Maguire Street congregation and was completely rebuilt in 1888. In the present century it entered a period of decline, but had a new lease of life when it joined the Liverpool Mission Circuit following Methodist Union. It was badly damaged in the 1941 blitz and thereafter only the church hall was usable. This finally became unsafe and was closed in 1952.
    [From the LRO online search archive.]

    Here's an updated map of the area.

  29. #59
    Senior Member johnny blue's Avatar
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    Perhaps it was his wish to be buried at the loaction where, he was christened, married, his parents buried, or was he shot out of a canon from the nearby Rotunda theatre.............this is getting silly

  30. #60
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny blue View Post
    Perhaps it was his wish to be buried at the loaction where, he was christened, married, his parents buried, or was he shot out of a canon from the nearby Rotunda theatre.............this is getting silly
    Thanks jb for the Rotunda theatre canon imagery...great! A few more facts on the case would be useful. I think I'll bow out for now and let the serious discussion take over.

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