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Thread: The Man In The Cylinder

  1. #16
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Default Cylinder of Death

    By Richard Whittington-Egan.

    The discovery: Friday 13th July 1945.
    The location: The corner of Fulford street and Great Homer Street.
    Date of death - circa July 4th 1885.
    Identified as: (probably) Thomas Cregeen Williams. (paperwork in pocket)
    Resided at: 29 Clifton Road, Anfield.
    Married to: Elizabeth Lea (died aged 42 - buried at Anfield Cemetery)
    Place of work: Owned T.C. Williams & Co. paintworks at 18-20 Leeds st.
    Cause of death: Unknown.
    Reason for death: Possible suicide as he was being inspected by accountants.
    OR/: Possible accident as the result of crawling in there to sleep.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    I'm sorry, you can say anybody is a bit elusive but Whittington Egan!
    This man is responsible for so many people's passion for Liverpool local history.

    I have corresponded with him and he comes from a well documented (and well to do) family, with connections in the Philharmonic orchestra, Maybrick's, and had many first hand meetings with alot of the legends that make Liverpool history so great.
    He even has his own little Black Museum! (wow!)
    Here is the Wikipedia entry on RWE:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Whittington-Egan
    Christopher T. George
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  3. #18
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    By Richard Whittington-Egan.

    The discovery: Friday 13th July 1945.
    The location: The corner of Fulford street and Great Homer Street.
    Date of death - circa July 4th 1885.
    Identified as: (probably) Thomas Cregeen Williams. (paperwork in pocket)
    Resided at: 29 Clifton Road, Anfield.
    Married to: Elizabeth Lea (died aged 42 - buried at Anfield Cemetery)
    Place of work: Owned T.C. Williams & Co. paintworks at 18-20 Leeds st.
    Cause of death: Unknown.
    Reason for death: Possible suicide as he was being inspected by accountants.
    OR/: Possible accident as the result of crawling in there to sleep.
    Thanks Ged.

  4. #19
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    In this account anyway he names names from the kid who found the cylinder whilst playing hide and seek with his mates (Tommy Lawless) to the P.C. who was on patrol in the area (Robert Baillie) to the coroners deputy (Dr. Charles Vincent Harrison) to foresnsics expert (Dr J.B. Firth) to the coroner himself (Dr. G.C. Mort). There are other names including the Inspector (later chief inspector), the assistant chief constable, the dead suspects name and his wife, child (Thomas Lea Cregreen Williams - born circa Nov 1858 - has he any exisiting relatives?) and others including his place of work and address- all of which could be checked out i'm sure.
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  5. #20
    Senior Member johnreppion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    I'm sorry, you can say anybody is a bit elusive but Whittington Egan!
    This man is responsible for so many people's passion for Liverpool local history.



    I have corresponded with him and he comes from a well documented (and well to do) family, with connections in the Philharmonic orchestra, Maybrick's, and had many first hand meetings with alot of the legends that make Liverpool history so great.
    He even has his own little Black Museum! (wow!)
    I'm very happy to learn that Mr. Whittington Egan is alive and well and must apologise if my earlier post sounded like a criticism of his work. I quite agree that he is a hugely important figure, highly influential in his field and an excellent writer.

    The elusiveness or sources I was referring to is something that has cropped up recently during my researching a piece on Spring Heeled Jack where I came across some data from one of Mr. Whittington Egan's publications which didn't quite fit. On the whole I think he treats the supernatural accounts which he writes about much more as ghost stories and a bit less seriously than his historical stuff. That said, he's a good writer and can get away with it; he makes it a pleasure to read. However, from the point of view of myself researching a ghost book, some of the data is slightly lacking. Not really a criticism at all, just me moaning about me book being hard really. Sorry.

  6. #21
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    You sound really into making your ghost book being one of fact and not subjectiveness, conjecture or hearsay and folklore which is refreshing and commendable given that nearly all of the rest are just that. Maybe hitting the brick walls that you obviously are will greater awareness to all that even with todays technology, Ghosts are yet to be a proven phenomenon and is why the best of the rest seems so far fetched and made up. Good luck in any case.
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    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  7. #22
    Senior Member johnreppion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    You sound really into making your ghost book being one of fact and not subjectiveness, conjecture or hearsay and folklore which is refreshing and commendable given that nearly all of the rest are just that. Maybe hitting the brick walls that you obviously are will greater awareness to all that even with todays technology, Ghosts are yet to be a proven phenomenon and is why the best of the rest seems so far fetched and made up. Good luck in any case.
    Cheers Ged. A lot of what I'm writing about comes from people's personal accounts and as such there's still a fair bit of unsubstantiated stuff in there. However, I'm doing my best to at least try to look into the history of the places and people involved. If I can't find anything then I'll just be honest and say "I spent some time in the records office researching X but could come up with no likely candidates for X", or similar. I love a good ghost story as much as the next man but if I used unsubstantiated stories without at least attempting to look into them a little I'd feel like I may as well just make it all up anyway. And if I did that, you lot would be the first to pull me up on it.

  8. #23
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by researchwriter View Post
    I'm very happy to learn that Mr. Whittington Egan is alive and well and must apologise if my earlier post sounded like a criticism of his work. I quite agree that he is a hugely important figure, highly influential in his field and an excellent writer.

    The elusiveness or sources I was referring to is something that has cropped up recently during my researching a piece on Spring Heeled Jack where I came across some data from one of Mr. Whittington Egan's publications which didn't quite fit. On the whole I think he treats the supernatural accounts which he writes about much more as ghost stories and a bit less seriously than his historical stuff. That said, he's a good writer and can get away with it; he makes it a pleasure to read. However, from the point of view of myself researching a ghost book, some of the data is slightly lacking. Not really a criticism at all, just me moaning about me book being hard really. Sorry.
    Hi researchwriter

    As noted in the Wikipedia entry on Mr Whittington-Egan, he was for some thirty years or so a Fleet Street journalist. I would suggest that in that case, his writing to some extent in terms of features and even his books were influenced by the need to tell a good and enthralling story. So yes I should say that he probably accepted the ghost stories at face value because he knew they would interest his readers. In his crime writing, such as his book on American actor Philip Yale Drew, accused of the murder of a Reading tobacconist, he tends to be much more careful of his facts and his analysis thereof.

    All the best

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
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  9. #24
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    After the body was extracted from the container by a Dutch bloke with clogs and a funny hat on there was a hollow cylinder and a silly hollander.
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  10. #25
    frankpol frankpol's Avatar
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    Default The Man in the cylinder

    Further information on this< I once had a book called. MURDER MYSTERY and Mayhem (tales of old liverpool), it was full of old liverpool stories about famous murders, Spring Heeled Jack, and other stories, I am told it is still available.

  11. #26
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Hello frankpol and welcome. That is the Richard Whittington-Egan book referred to in the earlier posts above.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  12. #27
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankpol View Post
    Further information on this< I once had a book called. MURDER MYSTERY and Mayhem (tales of old liverpool), it was full of old liverpool stories about famous murders, Spring Heeled Jack, and other stories, I am told it is still available.
    As Ged says these stories are by Richard Whittington-Egan. Murder, Mystery, and Mayhem is one of a series of pamphlets which collects tales drawn from Mr. Whittington-Egan's books originally published in the 1950's. The pamphlet series has been published at least twice to my knowledge.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  13. #28

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    Hi

    I can remember my father telling me about this, he was a teenager during the war and can remember it being in the newspapers.

  14. #29
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    Memories... all alone in the moonlight.

  15. #30
    Senior Member John Doh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    As Ged says these stories are by Richard Whittington-Egan. Murder, Mystery, and Mayhem is one of a series of pamphlets which collects tales drawn from Mr. Whittington-Egan's books originally published in the 1950's. The pamphlet series has been published at least twice to my knowledge.

    Chris
    Seems most of these accounts are traceable back to Richard W-E. Anyone got any sources that pre-date his book?

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