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Thread: New Pier

  1. #16
    Roving Arriva Bus User! wallasey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    If a new pier was built, it wouldn't be anything like the old New Brighton Pier.
    The last completely new pier, in Deal, Kent, was concrete, and Bournemouth pier was also rebuilt in the 1950s, in concrete.
    I lived in New Brighton in the early 1970s, when the ferry was still in operation, but it was evident even then that Wirral Council wanted NB to be residential, and not a holiday resort.
    Judging by what buildings are like now, it may be galvanized steel with strange glass things sticking out in painful places!

    Last I heard, the supermarket was going to be a Morrisons; Wallasey does now have a Tesco Metro, down in Seacombe (where the Dale Pub used to be on Poulton Road)

    Just shows how times change...so now they want NB to be a nice lil earner ay! Does that mean New Ferry might get its pool back???

    Speaking of which, has anyone noticed all the work thats going on in New Ferry atm?? Its positively starting to go up! (apologies from straying admins!)

    Your all welcome btw! It was the relevent piece, Soundlad has got some very good vids up there atm!
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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Fantastic!! .... It has great benefits and the best place for it is around New Brighton to Bootle. It could carry a road too and maybe a rail line as well further joining the two sides of the river - hopefully with the Wirral merging with Liverpool city. ...
    Any road or rail crossing would interfere with, and/or be adversely affected by, the locks. So it would be best if the barrage were developed for tourist/pleasure purposes rather than as a utilitarian crossing. An iconic touristy fair-weather crossing or ferry. Of course hikers and bikers could be accommodated too.

    Also, having a barrage and using it for hydro generation does not require eliminating the tidal range upstream. Rather it gives an opportunity to control the tidal range so as to actively manage the salinity and hence the environmental health of the upper Mersey.

    If the barrage were well South of the Seaforth docks but right at the Langton dock river entrance then the existing Langton cruise terminal could be rehabilitated to good effect as it would have direct access to the barrage and any ferries or etc. operating from it.

    And finally, reclaimed land at the New Brighton end of the barrage could be used to build a new hotel - on the site of the old pier adjoining the prom. Join me in dreaming that we could call it "The Tower", put a ballroom in it and a smallish replica of the old steel Tower on top :-)

    Has anyone got the talent, time and energy to sketch what it might look like?
    Last edited by HollyBlack; 01-08-2008 at 01:17 AM.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    If a new pier was built, it wouldn't be anything like the old New Brighton Pier. ...
    Right, the New Brighton pier in New Zealand probably gives one a better concept:-

  4. #19
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBlack View Post
    Any road or rail crossing would interfere with, and/or be adversely affected by, the locks. So it would be best if the barrage were developed for tourist/pleasure purposes rather than as a utilitarian crossing. An iconic touristy fair-weather crossing or ferry. Of course hikers and bikers could be accommodated too.

    Also, having a barrage and using it for hydro generation does not require eliminating the tidal range upstream. Rather it gives an opportunity to control the tidal range so as to actively manage the salinity and hence the environmental health of the upper Mersey.

    If the barrage were well South of the Seaforth docks but right at the Langton dock river entrance then the existing Langton cruise terminal could be rehabilitated to good effect as it would have direct access to the barrage and any ferries or etc. operating from it.

    And finally, reclaimed land at the New Brighton end of the barrage could be used to build a new hotel - on the site of the old pier adjoining the prom. Join me in dreaming that we could call it "The Tower", put a ballroom in it and a smallish replica of the old steel Tower on top :-)

    Has anyone got the talent, time and energy to sketch what it might look like?
    Creating a barrage would mean the river would not need dredging and deep water ships could sail almost anywhere in time as channels would be dredged through - they would not fill up after being cleared as no tide to bring the sand in. Only the channels up to the barrage wold need dredging. The existing channels to the river have underwater training walls.

    A barrage can have a road on it. Barriers stop traffic and/or trains when the locks are being used. An island in the middle could have a tower it, complete with restaurant, etc.

    Well something like what Portsmouth did would be fine at New Brighton. This is a nice looking tower, called the Spinnaker as it is shaped like a spinnaker


    Last edited by Waterways; 01-08-2008 at 02:49 AM.
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  5. #20
    Member Lukeo25's Avatar
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    new brighton should get a peir and a new ferry service i'm for it the future is people on the beech

  6. #21
    Senior Member kevin's Avatar
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    My grandad used to take me and my brother to NB in the late 50's. We'd spend time on the beach and visit both the indoor and outdoor funfairs. Anybody remember the wall of death at the outdoor fair?

  7. #22
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Waterways;100369]

    The Mersey Barrage is the big aspect here for any plans. QUOTE]

    Peel are keeping an open mind on at least four ways of harnessing the tidal range of which the barrage is only one.

    Personally I'd rather eat my gran's socks than seethe River Mersey bunged up even if it did have tidal locks for shipping.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Making the Mersey estuary a "largely" locked in body of deep water has great advantages.
    • Dredging costs are then to minimum creating cheaper berthing fees which will expand the port facilities all around the estuary.
    • Ships then berth on the river rather than in docks.
    • The locked in water can be safely used for leisure purposes.
    • The barrage creates a rail/roadway.

    The Mersey at low tide is not a nice sight at all. I would look forward to a high body of water. Beaches are accessible on the end of the Wirral peninsular and Crosby and all north. The prom at Wallasey could be a place when water sports and small boats berth on small piers creating an animated water front at Wallasey - which it currently is not.
    Last edited by Waterways; 04-18-2008 at 12:13 PM.
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    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  9. #24
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Making the Mersey estuary a "largely" locked in body of deep water has great advantages.
    • Dredging costs are then to minimum creating cheaper berthing fees which will expand the port facilities all around the estuary.
    • Ships then berth on the river rather than in docks.
    • The locked in water can be safely used for leisure purposes.
    • The barrage creates a rail/roadway.

    The Mersey at low tide is not a nice sight at all. I would look forward to a high body of water. Beaches are accessible on the end of the Wirral peninsular and Crosby and all north. The prom at Wallasey could be a place when water sports and small boats berth on small piers creating an animated water front at Wallasey - which it currently is not.
    From info provided on the Depth of the mersey thread it seems the silting around Speke has been aggravated by the training walls in the channel. It was quite unexpected that the sand banks in the bay would effectively move into the river. Change in the flow can be unpredictable. Will the 'basin' fill up with silt or will the sand move back into the bay? - hard to say.

    I am not sure that much dredging (relatively) goes on these days as the port operations are focussed so far north. Options that produce a largely self-scouring river bed seem more attractive. Also keeping the alakalinity of the water roughly the same rather than becoming 'fresher' is desirable. It's a clean river with lots of marine life and a delicate balance.

    Roads don't seem to be our future. They cost too much on many levels and don't have great capacity. Public Transport, probably Rail, probably is but the existng rail tunnel is in the centre for good reason. It's on the desire line.

    Leisure uses can operate on all states of tide if the river bed is better managed. More fundamentally, it's a rough, tough bit of water and part of the city's character. The sweeps and changes of tide are magnificent. I wouldn't want to see that change.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petromax View Post
    From info provided on the Depth of the mersey thread it seems the silting around Speke has been aggravated by the training walls in the channel. It was quite unexpected that the sand banks in the bay would effectively move into the river. Change in the flow can be unpredictable. Will the 'basin' fill up with silt or will the sand move back into the bay? - hard to say.
    If the river is barraged in not much at all will get inside. The sand banks can be removed and the river largely will be deep. A port can be at the airport then.

    I am not sure that much dredging (relatively) goes on these days as the port operations are focussed so far north.
    The Garston and Eatham channels are dredged and the main Crosby channel.

    Options that produce a largely self-scouring river bed seem more attractive. Also keeping the alakalinity of the water roughly the same rather than becoming 'fresher' is desirable. It's a clean river with lots of marine life and a delicate balance.
    The training walls improved around WW2 reduced sand in the estuary and raised the levels by a few inches.

    Roads don't seem to be our future. They cost too much on many levels and don't have great capacity. Public Transport, probably Rail, probably is but the existng rail tunnel is in the centre for good reason. It's on the desire line.
    [

    A barrage can give road and rail crossing.

    Leisure uses can operate on all states of tide if the river bed is better managed. More fundamentally, it's a rough, tough bit of water and part of the city's character. The sweeps and changes of tide are magnificent. I wouldn't want to see that change.
    The currents are harsh and locking it in makes it better for leisure craft as well as others.
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  11. #26
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    If the river is barraged in not much at all will get inside. The sand banks can be removed and the river largely will be deep. A port can be at the airport then.



    The Garston and Eatham channels are dredged and the main Crosby channel.



    The training walls improved around WW2 reduced sand in the estuary and raised the levels by a few inches.

    [

    A barrage can give road and rail crossing.



    The currents are harsh and locking it in makes it better for leisure craft as well as others.
    oh dear, let's leave it at that shall we. It's off-topic anyway and lots of people want to talk about the good times they had at New Brighton. I remember the fountains at the pool most of all and the salt water washes that used to sting your feet and the incredibly, incredibly high diving board.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by petromax View Post
    oh dear, let's leave it at that shall we. It's off-topic anyway and lots of people want to talk about the good times they had at New Brighton. I remember the fountains at the pool most of all and the salt water washes that used to sting your feet and the incredibly, incredibly high diving board.
    Just how high was that diving board? Too high for me ever to risk it! - I can remember people climbing up to the top and then climbing back down again having lost their nerve. Or jumping feet-first from the top and getting shouted at for doing that.

    Anyway, back to topic, yes a barrage could have a lot of pier-like features.

    So wouldn't it make sense to build a causeway thing out into the river with a floating ferry berth at the end rather than a concrete pier with water sloshing underneath? Since steel piers are history and concrete beams are so very very ugly. Such a causeway could double as a super-long launching ramp (income!) for trailered pleasure boats and a new lifeboat observation station and more.

  13. #28
    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    This diving board ?
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  14. #29
    Senior Member phredd's Avatar
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    I seem to remember reading some place the the diving board was at the maximum 'Olympic' height.
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  15. #30
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregs dad View Post

    This diving board ?

    That looks like it!!. 'Course it use to be a million feet high and you could split your stomach open if you dived wrong from it!

    I think there were three (plus the spring board). You could watch people getting more and more windy as they climbed. I often saw them drop down to the middle board, but never the lowest board (Oh, the shame of it......!!). I tried the spring board once but it was often folded back and locked away because it was so bouncy.


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