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Thread: Which UK Cities Have More Georgian Buildings Than Liverpool

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    Member Sarah's Avatar
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    Default Which UK Cities Have More Georgian Buildings Than Liverpool

    I absolutely adore walking through the Georgian quarter of Liverpool, the terraces are so beautiful and elegant, however, I know Liverpool has more Georgian buildings than Bath, but I was wondering if anywhere had more than Liverpool?

    The only reason I ask this is because I read conflicting evidence, some places say Liverpool has the most in the UK, and others say more than anywhere outside London. I only like to know exactly as when I'm guiding people around I like to have my information accurate!

    Thank you anybody who knows exactly.


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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah View Post
    I absolutely adore walking through the Georgian quarter of Liverpool, the terraces are so beautiful and elegant, however, I know Liverpool has more Georgian buildings than Bath, but I was wondering if anywhere had more than Liverpool?

    The only reason I ask this is because I read conflicting evidence, some places say Liverpool has the most in the UK, and others say more than anywhere outside London. I only like to know exactly as when I'm guiding people around I like to have my information accurate!

    Thank you anybody who knows exactly.
    Not 100% sure. I would assume London has more because of its size, and then Edinburgh with Liverpool being third.

    Bath is small. It is a city because it has a cathedral not because of its size.
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    See this thread already on YO Sarah.

    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...=bath+georgian
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    PhilipG
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    It depends on your definition of "Georgian".
    Victoria was crowned in 1837, and the "Georgian Quarter" of Liverpool (inland from Rodney Street) was mostly built in her reign.
    The usual claim is "More Georgian Buildings than Bath", but Bath's buildings are genuinely Georgian in age (and - it must be said - better looking).

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    It depends on your definition of "Georgian".
    Victoria was crowned in 1837, and the "Georgian Quarter" of Liverpool (inland from Rodney Street) was mostly built in her reign.
    I would disagree with that. I worked for British Gas and had access to the pipeline drawings. The dates on the pipes laid were on the maps. Upper Parliament St was predominately early 1830s.

    The usual claim is "More Georgian Buildings than Bath", but Bath's buildings are genuinely Georgian in age (and - it must be said - better looking).
    Looks is subjective. French people I know love the red brick houses, because they don't have them in France - they are different. I preferred the French yellow stone.

    Georgian is pre-Victoria and Liverpool is littered with buildings older than that. In the past 40-45 years easily half have gone. A whole city's worth.

    There is also the Georgian Style which has been made for the past 300 years without a break. These are made today. Some Wimpey estates are full of them. The Georgian house was the first mass produced style of house. There was a set pattern of style - you followed the plans which were bought off-the-shelf anywhere.

    Georgian houses look "balanced" as there was a set calculation to the size of windows and doors to the exterior house size, etc. The style was set mainly via the 3 x 4 ratio (the same for initial film and TV screens). This ratio is one that people naturally find attractive and when a persons facial features conform to this symmetry of the ratio of the eyes, nose, mouth an attractive person emerges to the human brain.

    Many modern "Georgian" houses do not keep the symmetry of the style and hence look odd. A modern house built to the Georgian style and symmetry is every much a Georgian house as one built in 1800, a continuation of a style that has never been stopped.

    They were a cheap and effective style for the time. The modern Georgian houses have only the exterior effect and deviate from the original set styles somewhat.

    The from the ceiling down sash windows were a brilliant design throwing light to the far walls of the rooms. In hot weather open the top and bottom sashes and heat leaves the room at ceiling level. Cooler air enters via the opened lower sash creating a cool air current in the room. Trickle ventilation where the sashes meet in the centre, when just opening one slightly. The problem with sashes,was that they leaked air a lot and caused draughts. Modern sashes are now sealed and air-tight.

    Georgian houses were built all over the UK, Ireland and North America too. Wiliamsburg in the USA is full of them, along with other north east USA cities. Some were made in New Zealand and Australia too. The tall ceilings and windows up to the ceilings were brilliant for cooling. The design made its way all over the world.

    Liverpool certainly has more "Georgian style" of houses than Bath that is for sure.

    There are a few books all of the same title, "The Georgian House". These explain the types and how it came about. The date of build can be set, by if the windows were flush with the outside brickwork or inset.

    The Georgian Group, who have an American branch. They campaign to save Georgian buildings and were highly critical of Liverpool council for allowing Georgian buildings to be demolished.
    http://www.georgiangroup.org.uk/docs/cases/index.php
    Last edited by Waterways; 11-07-2007 at 05:26 PM.
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
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    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Thanks for the link, Ged.

    I read in Ken Pye's book, 'Discover Liverpool' that yes indeed, the Georgian buildings are late Georgian, however, he states they were definitely built in the Georgian period, before Victoria was crowned, to me just because something is late Georgian period doesn't make it less of a Georgian building, that would be like saying the 'Phil' is less of a Victorian pub because it was completed in 1900, the year before Quenn Victoria died.

    I can't agree that Liverpool's Georgian buildings aren't in good condition, if you walk around Falkner Square, Falkner Street, Catherine St, Canning St, Huskisson St and Percy St amongst others, you see exactly how many there are and how beautiful they are. So much so that Liverpool is often doubling for Georgian and Victorian London in TV and film.

    I'm guessing, the figures of having more than Bath is probably because both cities, and all cities for that matter, will most likely have the buildings registered, just the same as how they keep track on how many listed buildings are in a city.

    Btw, thank you Waterways, it was very interesting what you wrote.
    Last edited by Sarah; 11-07-2007 at 02:58 PM.
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I agree, that was an interesting post Waterways.
    I have learned a little about architecture, and I didn't know that about sash windows cooling the room from ceiling height in hot weather. All well thought out

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    PhilipG
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    Default 1836 map.


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    That map is about right. The streets have been laid out for house construction and the gas mains will be under. Canning St is clearly under construction.

    There is/was a gas plant at Edge Hill at Spofforth Rd. This will probably supply this part of the city. There was/is one at Grafton St serving the south end and that part of the city centre and there was one at the north end around Vauxhall Rd somewhere serving the north ends and that part of the centre.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    As far as I'm aware, only London has more Georgian buildings.

    As for being true Georgian buildings, you have to remember that when a monarch dies, builders don't all turn to each other and say, we'd better start a completely different style of building today. It would be weird if it happened overnight. Therefore, it's quite possible to have Georgian buildings in early Victorian Britain and even today.

    Julie

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    PhilipG
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    Default Bath in pictures.

    I'm not putting Liverpool's Georgian or Georgian-style architecture down, but there is a difference between Bath and Liverpool.

    http://images.google.com/images?q=ge...=1&sa=N&tab=wi
    Last edited by PhilipG; 11-08-2007 at 11:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    That map is about right. The streets have been laid out for house construction and the gas mains will be under. Canning St is clearly under construction.

    There is/was a gas plant at Edge Hill at Spofforth Rd. This will probably supply this part of the city. There was/is one at Grafton St serving the south end and that part of the city centre and there was one at the north end around Vauxhall Rd somewhere serving the north ends and that part of the centre.

    Athol Street gasworks is the one you're thinking of. There is also one at Linacre Lane, Bootle for the north end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Athol Street gasworks is the one you're thinking of. There is also one at Linacre Lane, Bootle for the north end.
    Athol St!!! I couldn't think of the name. Lincacre Lane was for Bootle and the far north end, which was later. Similar, Garston Gas Works did Garston and far south end of the city later. Prescot Gas Works did, Prescot and later parts of Huyton and Knowsley, if I am not mistaken. Kirkby was supplied by Linacre along high pressure pipelines. The gas is now stored at low pressure and piped at high pressure. In the olden days the nearer to the gas works the higher the pressure, so the gas rings would have large flames, and those furthest would have small flames. It was fine for lighting.

    Hind St does Birkenhead and the Wirral. I never figured out how they got the gas from Birkenhead across the docks to Wallasey.

    In 1830 there would have been fields along the the north end of the river and Athol St would have supplied the small north end of the city and the north end of the centre.

    In the early 1800s, the gas works were built on the edge of what was the town then. Grafton St, Athol St, Spofforth Rd.

    Athol St was de-commissioned and demolished in the 1970s. All the other gas plants are still in operation. Grafton St was actually expanded in 1971 with that far too large light green gas tank. I wish they would pull it down.

    Prescot had experimental small high pressure torpedo shaped tanks, which held a lot of gas for the size. They were thinking of taking down all the old ugly tank holders and using the high pressure tanks. They abandoned the project.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Athol Street gasworks in the shadow of 22 storey Logan Towers. The tallest prefabricated structure in the world when opened on 15th July 66.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Liverpool certainly had more Georgian buildings before the 60's when the Royal Liverpool and the University of Liverpool cleared swathes of Georgian properties in the name of progress. Some rather iconic images of these times can be found in Freddy O'Connor's "Liverpool: It all came tumbling down" which is a very good read indeed! Everton Ridge was also an area which had a good population of Georgian housing stock as well as Victorian Terraces.

    Don't forget that there are clusters of Georgian buildings scattered across the city in the likes of Wavertree, Woolton and West Derby not to mention the odd building dating from this age in Kirkdale and Knotty Ash.
    Liverpool Suburbia@Flickr

    UPDATED 14JUN09 20 images added to Dovecot
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    I'm not putting Liverpool's Georgian or Georgian-style architecture down, but there is a difference between Bath and Liverpool.

    http://images.google.com/images?q=ge...=1&sa=N&tab=wi
    There is and I love Bath and its architecture.
    Bath is very different though in like Edinburgh (and Birkenhead) its Georgian buildings are part of a grand masterplan whereas Liverpool's are more organic. I would say that London's and Dublin's Georgian streets are more comparable to ours because they like Liverpool's are all about spec building by developers who used catalogues to build houses that supposedly reflected good taste (they do IMHO). Bath is more about John Wood's meglomania and obsession with ancient British paganism, Classicism and related ideals. Stunning though. I love liverpools Georgioan (and Georgian style) buildings for the variation of size, scale and uses of the buildings that follow a basic ideal and pattern but allow difference within. Something that cant really be done when everything is planned anmd designed by one architect (and his son)
    Just my opinion of course.
    Other Georgian rich cities Bath, Bristol, Edinburgh, Dublin

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    You can see how Gambia Terrace was added to at a later date with its different styles.
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    John(Zappa)
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    Hi guy's
    Debz D'Annunzio here hope Iím not going off the subject but a few years back a certain book by the name of "little Italy" was published and it stated that the statues in front of the walker art gallery were of Maria grazia D'Annunzio and her husband Vincenzo Volante, unfortunately this is not true which kind of makes our family look pretty silly. And we don't know where the author got this story from. The statues are of raffael and Michael Angelo and were sculptured by John Warrington Woods a few years before our family even arrived in Liverpool don't want to rant on but whenever I can I like to put the record straight. If there are any other Italians on here and are interested please take a look at myspace debzdannunzio
    Debz

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    Hi Debz.

    There is a thread on this here Yo regarding the old Little Italy area where I came from which gives links to the Scottie Press and Paul Sudbury's film documentary - Gardens of stone and the like - here it is:


    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...ighlight=italy
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    John(Zappa)
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    Hi Ged
    thanks for the link John and i have been looking through all the old pic's for the last hour or so. I wish we still had a proper Little Italy today, my great grandfather came from Atina Italy and first settled in Gerard st and later Claire st, my grandfather lived in Holly st before moving to Blackstock gdns and now i'm in rural Fazakerley. oh and John's sister works with Paul Sudbury and has seen the film he made she was very impressed.
    cheers Debz

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    The difference you see between georgian Liverpool and georgian bath are more to do with the materials used, not the style. The styling is identical but the materials used are different simply because of where we are situated. Bath had a plentiful supply of sandstone and Liverpool had a plentiful supply of brick because of the vast industry that was located here. In fact some victorian housing in bath is made from sandstone!

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    Default georgian houses

    Would you say the houses on egerton street are georgian also then??? Looking at the pic from the 1960's of ainscough's they do not look to be but when i see modern day ones of the street they do look georgian to me-but i know nowt really about architecture. When were they built on that street anyway-does anyone know. My eyes are not working very well to look at the map previous. Definately need some of those pin hole glasses to retrain my eyes.

  23. #23
    PhilipG
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    Egerton Street is later, rather than earlier.
    Scroll up for the 1836 map.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 04-01-2008 at 12:38 PM.

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    TonyS
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    Here's a couple of pics.


    Canning Street, taken 19th March 2008




    Canning Street, from Falkner Square, 26th Feb 2008

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    Fantastic pics. The second one is beautiful.

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    Great those Tony. I saw them on SSC.

    I'd have said Egerton street was built in Georgian style but I know it was laid out in Victorian times.
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    thanks everyone-yes i did think it looked victorian in the sixties but more georgian looking now. Those pics of canning street are beautiful-i need more practise with my camera-those pics put me to shame. Will practise next week when im off work-and maybe even take some pics in liverpool. cheers.

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