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Thread: More concrete Gardens

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    Senior Member Colin Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Default More concrete Gardens


    Cartwright Gardens, 1975

    Prince Albert Gardens, St James Street, 1974

    Kent Gardens, 1970

    St Oswald’s Gardens (on left) 1979
    My last post on Liverpool’s inter-War tenements created a lot of interest, so here are a few more photographs of now-demolished blocks. The only one I am struggling to name is the block on the right in St Oswald Street, Old Swan. The tenements on the left are St Oswald’s Gardens, which were demolished to make way for a Tesco superstore in 2000.
    I have been referencing an interesting book Housing: A European Survey published in 1936, which included local authority housing in Paris, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Stockholm and Barcelona as well as Liverpool, London, Leeds and Birmingham. The survey was of progressive schemes to improve the housing conditions of the working class and it heralds the unprecedented efforts made since the War ended in 1918 to tackle the slum housing and overcrowding prevalent in all of the cities covered.
    Sir Lancelot Keay provided the information for Liverpool and it was under his guidance that the city pioneered both the tenements and what he named cottages (the council houses still standing along Queen’s Drive, in Dovecot, Speke and elsewhere), His plans were for 5,000 cottages and 16,000 flats.
    The cottages were preferred by the younger generation whilst the older generation were happier being rehoused in the city centre neighbourhoods they were familiar with. The need for city centre tenements was primarily to provide proximity to the docks for workers.
    It would be hard to underestimate what moving into a new flat must have been like for the fortunate tenants. For the first time, most would have running (and hot) water, an indoor toilet and bathroom, dry and spacious living areas and a kitchen fitted with a gas cooker. By the time the photographs were taken in the 1970s, they were no longer modern and needed considerable renovation to bring them up to standard. As we know, the agreed solution was to demolish them – so we are only left with a photographic record of a major housing initiative.

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Wilkinson View Post

    Cartwright Gardens, 1975


    Colin...


    It was Cartwright House, not Gardens..
    and each of them blocks had a different name..
    they were not all Cartwright House..
    that block is also Lionel House...Thurlow House.. and Downe House..

    The shop in the photo was Jim Morans..




    Edited.. and deleted..

    Too much info that nobody will have a clue what I'm on about
    relating to the area in the photo....or will be bothered about knowing...





    I hope some of that helps Colin...



    Gerard.
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

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    Senior Member collegepudding's Avatar
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    Wow ! thats some in depth detail from Gerard,

    isnt the block on the right in the St Oswald street shot Hurst Gardens ?

    collegepudding

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    Wow ! thats some in depth detail from Gerard,

    isnt the block on the right in the St Oswald street shot Hurst Gardens ?

    collegepudding




    Edited.. and deleted..


    Too much personal family info again relating to the Cartwright House photo.






    I wouldn't know about Old Swan cp... sorry mate.



    Gerard.
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

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    Senior Member collegepudding's Avatar
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    Good God Gerard , I know I have said it before but you are a walking encyclopaedia of Liverpool and its Characters and especially the little italy area...you're a very valuable contributor to this forum mate! thanks for the in depth post

    collegepudding

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    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    And the 'Best of All'! Speke Road Gardens!!!!!!!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Speke%20rd%20gdns%201.jpg 
Views:	630 
Size:	143.2 KB 
ID:	24224

    Not my pic, saw this on 'YO' some time ago! so Thanks to the photographer responsible.

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    Good God Gerard , I know I have said it before but you are a walking encyclopaedia of Liverpool and its Characters and especially the little italy area...you're a very valuable contributor to this forum mate! thanks for the in depth post

    collegepudding





    Edited... and deleted..
    Too much personal info....



    My mate Franny Carlyle is spot on though... down to earth, a good lad.


    Thanks cp..


    Gerard..
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

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    Senior Member GeorgePorgie's Avatar
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    Da mn I missed some
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kent-Gardens1.jpg 
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  9. #9
    Senior Member collegepudding's Avatar
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    Interesting points Gerard, and you,re spot on about Frank Carlyle {only his bessie mates can call him Franny cant they mate }. Only last week i was in Radio Merseyside shop buying his latest DVD , he puts all the High Brow Chappies into the shade with his talent for engaging an audience and putting over his subject in an easy to understand way, and most impotant of all, its always fun too .

    Collegepudding

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    Interesting points Gerard, and you,re spot on about Frank Carlisle {only his bessie mates can call him Franny cant they mate }. Only last week i was in Radio Merseyside shop buying his latest DVD , he puts all the High Brow Chappies into the shade with his talent for engaging an audience and putting over his subject in an easy to understand way, and most impotant of all, its always fun too .

    Collegepudding


    You call him Franny next time cp... tell him I said so..


    speak soon mate...


    Gerard..
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    Good God Gerard , I know I have said it before but you are a walking encyclopaedia of Liverpool and its Characters and especially the little italy area...you're a very valuable contributor to this forum mate! thanks for the in depth post

    collegepudding


    Sorry cp mate for deleting what I'd earlier put..
    I think some of that was a little too personal...
    nobody would have a clue or relate to any of my personal/family
    experiences involving the Cartwright House photo..


    Sorry mate..



    Gerard.
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

  12. #12
    Martin hmtmaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    isnt the block on the right in the St Oswald street shot Hurst Gardens ?

    collegepudding
    Yes CP, it was Hurst Gardens

    Mart
    Started the Old Swan Website:

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    Senior Member GeorgePorgie's Avatar
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    Senior Member collegepudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmtmaj View Post
    Yes CP, it was Hurst Gardens

    Mart

    Thanks for confirming that Mart .


    collegepudding

    ---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard Fleming View Post
    Sorry cp mate for deleting what I'd earlier put..
    I think some of that was a little too personal...
    nobody would have a clue or relate to any of my personal/family
    experiences involving the Cartwright House photo..


    Sorry mate..



    Gerard.

    Thats perfectly understandable Gerard, I agree with your decision to Edit & Delete.The World Wide web may sometimes be ok for private thoughts but some Private family details etc are usually best not submitted.
    Thanks all the same for your original comments and i understood & appreciated your reasons for posting them. .


    collegepudding[COLOR="Silver"]

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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    The first photo is a beauty as far as i'm concerned as we lived in the top block before moving into the Gardens. Although it might look like one long block, the four were each staggered as they came down the hill.

    The curved end of the elevated walkway can be seen on the left, we used to ride our bikes down these to a back wheel turn skid at the bottom. It would always bode well to make sure some woman wasn't about to make her way up with a pram before starting.

    The shop done very well out of the residents, my mam being one who frequented it often.
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    Keeping It Real !!!!!!!!! ItsaZappathing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard Fleming View Post
    You call him Franny next time cp... tell him I said so..


    speak soon mate...


    Gerard..
    I always call him Franny and he still calls me by my nickname.

    Good posts all

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    Thanks for confirming that Mart .


    collegepudding

    ---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------




    Thats perfectly understandable Gerard, I agree with your decision to Edit & Delete.The World Wide web may sometimes be ok for private thoughts but some Private family details etc are usually best not submitted.
    Thanks all the same for your original comments and i understood & appreciated your reasons for posting them. .


    collegepudding[COLOR="Silver"]


    Thanks mate...




    Gerard.
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

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    Senior Member collegepudding's Avatar
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    Colin is a very knowledgeable person on the social History of Liverpool, his threads are always keenly awaited by myself ,and' if the number of thanks that are always submitted to his posts are any indication then a large ,number of regular posters also feel the same.
    The thing that slightly irritates me is on a number of occasions he fails to show appreciation ,within the thread, of the feedback he consistently receives from members...A quick post thanking everyone for their input would be most appreciated. just a little point, but one I feel should be made.

    Keep posting Colin, i am a big fan of your input to the forum and of your Bluecote publications .

    collegepudding

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    Thank you CP !!

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    Senior Member collegepudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty1 View Post
    Thank you CP !!


    collegepudding

    Edit :

    By the way, Colin was in fact on line whilst i was inputting the last post !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard Fleming View Post

    It was Cartwright House, not Gardens..
    and each of them blocks had a different name..
    they were not all Cartwright House..
    that block is also Lionel House...Thurlow House.. and Downe House..
    The shop in the photo was Jim Morans..

    Gerard.
    I'd never have remembered the names of those flats, but Moran's shop - a general grocer's and sweetshop - I remember very well. We lived for a while in the Byrom Arms, the top floor of which would have been approximately the spot the photo was taken from.

    JN

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    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNugent View Post
    I'd never have remembered the names of those flats, but Moran's shop - a general grocer's and sweetshop - I remember very well. We lived for a while in the Byrom Arms, the top floor of which would have been approximately the spot the photo was taken from.

    JN

    I remember Jim Morans well, very well as my mam shopped in there..



    Gerard.
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNugent View Post
    I'd never have remembered the names of those flats, but Moran's shop - a general grocer's and sweetshop - I remember very well. We lived for a while in the Byrom Arms, the top floor of which would have been approximately the spot the photo was taken from.

    JN


    Hello JN.

    A pic of the Byrom Arms for you. Listed as both 32-34 Byrom st and 2-4 Hunter street, this photo is from 1912 when it was run by George Henry Allen, it then had adjoining cocoa rooms. It replaced the earlier Brunswick buildings. Hunter st once had 16 pubs as well as Mellors brewery, Mellors owned a number of pubs in the city, it was taken over by Higsons. This pub was demolished to make way for re-widening of the street and to include the flyovers. Pic and info - Freddy O'Connor. A pub called the Byrom aka locally as the Pie Shop was built on the opposite side of Byrom street much later than this one.



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    Newbie JNugent's Avatar
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    Wow!

    I'm so grateful for that picture, Ged. Although there were two floors above the pub, each floor was effectively a separate flat (accessed from a door in Hunter Street which led to a couple of staircases parallel with Byrom Street - ie, behind the building, with windows facing up the hill). Both flats were massive, as you can imagine, and each had three bedrooms, a large living room, kitchen and bathroom. My brother and I shared a huge bedroom big enough to ride a (small) bike around. The windows to that room were just above the "ALES" part of the gold signwriting fronting Byrom Street. The living rooms were at the back. Sometimes we would play on the empty floor above, though it always felt a little spooky!

    JN

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    Great recollections there JN and another Wow to the collection. It's great when a photo stirs the memory isn't it. I bet you hadn't seen that scene since you were last there. Thanks for posting about what it was like living there.
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    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    Never went in there but often wondered did the bar counter slant like the floor ?
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    I suppose not, the Vernon is that same, you just don't get served at the bottom end if you're under 6ft Joe.
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNugent View Post
    Wow!

    I'm so grateful for that picture, Ged. Although there were two floors above the pub, each floor was effectively a separate flat (accessed from a door in Hunter Street which led to a couple of staircases parallel with Byrom Street - ie, behind the building, with windows facing up the hill). Both flats were massive, as you can imagine, and each had three bedrooms, a large living room, kitchen and bathroom. My brother and I shared a huge bedroom big enough to ride a (small) bike around. The windows to that room were just above the "ALES" part of the gold signwriting fronting Byrom Street. The living rooms were at the back. Sometimes we would play on the empty floor above, though it always felt a little spooky!

    JN
    Interesting memories there - I can just picture the place as you describe it.

  29. #29
    Liverpool Photographer Gerard Fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegepudding View Post
    Colin is a very knowledgeable person on the social History of Liverpool, his threads are always keenly awaited by myself ,and' if the number of thanks that are always submitted to his posts are any indication then a large ,number of regular posters also feel the same.
    The thing that slightly irritates me is on a number of occasions he fails to show appreciation ,within the thread, of the feedback he consistently receives from members...A quick post thanking everyone for their input would be most appreciated. just a little point, but one I feel should be made.

    Keep posting Colin, i am a big fan of your input to the forum and of your Bluecote publications .

    collegepudding

    Well said mate.... an honest statement from you as usual...




    Gerard.
    Liverpool Days... << my website of Liverpool images

  30. #30
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    It's great when a photo stirs the memory isn't it.
    It's true Ged, how an old photo stirs memories. I'm in that mode at the moment researching a bit of history of my area.

    It's nice to read posts like JN when someone is made up with a pic of their old stamping ground.

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