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Thread: Liverpool Central High Level

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    Living the Dream... Scouseinmanc's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool Central High Level

    Barr the excellent Disused Stations website, there isn't much in the way of info or pics on this once grand city centre station, with it's great arched roof & glazed windscreen (very similar to that of Glasgow Queen St).
    Does anyone have any pics showing decent view/s of the concourse, after alighting the train & also pics shortly after it's closure & subsequent demolition?

    Opened in 1874, in a prime city centre location, it closed just 2 years prior to its centenary. Until 1966 it had served many destinations such as Manchester, Stockport, Derby, Sheffield, Harwich, London (both St Pancras & Marylebone) & also offered other local suburban services. However, after this date, all these services then transferred over to Lime Street via the Allerton curve, leaving only the hourly service to Gateacre (which at one time had continued on up to Aintree Central (until 1960) & Southport Lord St (until 1952).


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    In my opinion, the station's distruction is yet another example of how shortsighted people were back in the 1960's & 70's. Had the station survived, perhaps these services would have been reinstated at a later date, relieving the pressure on what is currently a rather congested Lime St.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouseinmanc View Post
    Barr the excellent Disused Stations website, there isn't much in the way of info or pics on this once grand city centre station, with it's great arched roof & glazed windscreen (very similar to that of Glasgow Queen St).
    Does anyone have any pics showing decent view/s of the concourse, after alighting the train & also pics shortly after it's closure & subsequent demolition?

    Opened in 1874, in a prime city centre location, it closed just 2 years prior to its centenary. Until 1966 it had served many destinations such as Manchester, Stockport, Derby, Sheffield, Harwich, London (both St Pancras & Marylebone) & also offered other local suburban services. However, after this date, all these services then transferred over to Lime Street via the Allerton curve, leaving only the hourly service to Gateacre (which at one time had continued on up to Aintree Central (until 1960) & Southport Lord St (until 1952).

    In my opinion, the station's distruction is yet another example of how shortsighted people were back in the 1960's & 70's. Had the station survived, perhaps these services would have been reinstated at a later date, relieving the pressure on what is currently a rather congested Lime St.
    I personally think it was right to have stopped the town and city services from Central and concentrate on Lime St. Lime St can be extended to cope with longer trains and even be double decked to give more platforms

    Central high level could have been a large arena or conference centre, etc, like in Manchester. However no one thought of that sort of thing in the 1960s - also there was no demand for that facility either, with the boxing stadium underused and rotting away. The site was vacant until now.

    Even 5 years ago a large arena, conference centre could have been built on the site from ground up - with its own underground station under. The problem is that it would have no kerb appeal whatsoever, hidden away.
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    Living the Dream... Scouseinmanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Lime St can be extended to cope with longer trains
    How could Lime St be extended? There isn't any room for extension to the left or the right of the station. Even if there was, there are only 4 tracks within the station throat, which would not be able to cope with the additional traffic. The platforms are already incredibly long & do not need to be extended. However, the possibility of double deckers, similar to those in the Netherlands would be a definite possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Central high level could have been a large arena or conference centre, etc, like in Manchester.
    Absolutley. The fantastic conversion by Manchester City Council of Manchester Central into GMEX during the 1980's (& funnily has now been renamed back to Manchester Central), is a prime example of how these great Victorian iron halls can be reused after their original use, rather than being torn down.

    This would have been an excellent location for a conference/exhibition centre. Although, I am still of the mindset that Central should never have closed in the first place, as I stated earlier!!

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    Just over half way down the page on the 'buildings' section of my site there are a couple of pics of Central's frontage.

    http://pic7.piczo.com/inacityliving/?g=42204765
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouseinmanc View Post
    How could Lime St be extended? There isn't any room for extension to the left or the right of the station. Even if there was, there are only 4 tracks within the station throat, which would not be able to cope with the additional traffic. The platforms are already incredibly long & do not need to be extended. However, the possibility of double deckers, similar to those in the Netherlands would be a definite possibility.
    The platforms are not long enough for the Eurostar type of trains. They can be lengthened by cutting back the rock. The four tracks can cope indeed. Edge Hill has been mentioned as a waiting point for trains. The idea being to minimise the time a train is at a platform at Lime St. The new Jubilee Line in London shifts more train per hour because of computerised signaling. A lot of traffic can be pushed through four tracks.

    The fantastic conversion by Manchester City Council of Manchester Central into GMEX during the 1980's (& funnily has now been renamed back to Manchester Central), is a prime example of how these great Victorian iron halls can be reused after their original use, rather than being torn down.
    Central has no kerb appeal. A dockside location is far more appealing, than a hidden city centre location.

    This would have been an excellent location for a conference/exhibition centre. Although, I am still of the mindset that Central should never have closed in the first place, as I stated earlier!!
    Central should have closed as the business was not there at the time. I think what you are saying is that a new Central high level should have been built instead of those stumpy buildings that are to be built on the site.

    You also have to look ahead. The city centre is moving onto the river and dock waterways and will become more linear. Lime St will then be on the extreme east of the city centre. A new station can be built anywhere on the northern line and terminate near the centre/docks (at the end of the Waterloo tunnel?) with Merseyrail links.

    The same can be said for the south end, again a station at the end of the Wapping tunnel with the Cheshire line tunnel to Central curved into the Wapping tunnel. Again access to Merseyrail. This would entail sharing of the tracks with Merseyrail trains, which currently share no track with any other service.

    This new station(s) would then serve the new highly populated city centre.

    How many people that alight at Lime St go to the centre? A minority at is for sure. Maybe Edge Hill should be used and promoted more.
    Last edited by Waterways; 10-04-2007 at 02:04 PM.
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    PhilipG
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    There was a cinema planned on the Central Station site in the 1960s.
    This was well before multiplexes, and would probably have been something similar to the Classic (now Odeon) in Allerton Road.

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    Senior Member goldenface's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Scouseinmanc;81508]How could Lime St be extended? There isn't any room for extension to the left or the right of the station. Even if there was, there are only 4 tracks within the station throat, QUOTE]

    There are actually 6 tracks (don't forget the one in the tunnel) at Lime Street Station throat, which would make it even more difficult to extend. Platform 6/7 could be extended for longer trains. 12/13 coach expresses used depart regularly I think.

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    I have these two photos of the last days of Liverpool Central HL :
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyk View Post
    I have these two photos of the last days of Liverpool Central HL :
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    Great pics andyk.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

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    [QUOTE=goldenface;81571]
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouseinmanc View Post
    How could Lime St be extended? There isn't any room for extension to the left or the right of the station. Even if there was, there are only 4 tracks within the station throat, QUOTE]

    There are actually 6 tracks (don't forget the one in the tunnel) at Lime Street Station throat, which would make it even more difficult to extend. Platform 6/7 could be extended for longer trains. 12/13 coach expresses used depart regularly I think.

    There maybe room for one more platform maybe an island platform using the roadway inbetween platforms 7&8 as it isnt really used nowerdays plys i wouldent immagine that they could extend the platforms as platforms 1,6,7,8 & 9 are prety long anyweay and would hold probably 10 coaches maybe 11 at a squeeze.

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    [QUOTE=John_142;86228]
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenface View Post


    There maybe room for one more platform maybe an island platform using the roadway inbetween platforms 7&8 as it isnt really used nowerdays
    They're planning to build waiting rooms there in time for Capital of Culture:

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-20043683/

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    going through my local history books spotted this pic of the station being dismantled.

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    PhilipG
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    May 1982
    Last edited by PhilipG; 03-03-2008 at 09:38 PM.

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    Default May 82 pic

    it looks like a ghost town in the may 82 pic

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    your right Liverpool central was once a grand station just like lime street and there is hardly and info or photos of it please feel free to vist my website www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk or just go to

    http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ool%20Central/

    this page has many rare photos of Liverpool central that people have been kind so share as well as some of my own resent photos of the station hope this helps it will be a shame to see no trance of the station left after the new development for the site starts very soon

    an interesting feature is the tunnels at the back that are still there today as you will see from the photos i took i am unsure about the tunnel at the very back that is bricked up where did that go?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oritelad View Post
    your right Liverpool central was once a grand station just like lime street and there is hardly and info or photos of it please feel free to vist my website www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk or just go to

    http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ool%20Central/

    this page has many rare photos of Liverpool central that people have been kind so share as well as some of my own resent photos of the station hope this helps it will be a shame to see no trance of the station left after the new development for the site starts very soon

    an interesting feature is the tunnels at the back that are still there today as you will see from the photos i took i am unsure about the tunnel at the very back that is bricked up where did that go?
    Is there two bricked up tunnels?

    From toxteth.net..1907. There was a turntable in front of the tunnel. It looks like it was maybe a shunting line, or just and underground shed. It may have been an initial attempt to get Central Stn onto Edge Hill via the Wapping Tunnel and abandoned.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Waterways; 08-18-2008 at 07:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oritelad View Post
    your right Liverpool central was once a grand station just like lime street and there is hardly and info or photos of it please feel free to vist my website www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk or just go to

    http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ool%20Central/

    this page has many rare photos of Liverpool central that people have been kind so share as well as some of my own resent photos of the station hope this helps it will be a shame to see no trance of the station left after the new development for the site starts very soon

    an interesting feature is the tunnels at the back that are still there today as you will see from the photos i took i am unsure about the tunnel at the very back that is bricked up where did that go?
    Sorry to disappoint but that's not a tunnel. The cutting wall is cutback for the swing of the turntable similar to wall benind the signal box at Lime Street which is built on the site of a former turntable.

    Regards

    Mike

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewturner View Post
    Sorry to disappoint but that's not a tunnel. The cutting wall is cutback for the swing of the turntable similar to wall benind the signal box at Lime Street which is built on the site of a former turntable.

    Regards

    Mike
    It has flash coving on the cutback giving the impression it was a tunnel, so easily mistaken. Just inside the main tunnel there is clearly and arched tunnel portal that look like it is going east. What is that? The start of a tunnel that was abandoned?

    The cutback is in the background, on the back wall. There is a round tunnel inside the large tunnel opening. Judging by the car it could be the 1970s. Photo from Oritlad's web site:
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-06-2008 at 06:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Just inside the main tunnel there is clearly and arched tunnel portal that look like it is going east. What is that? The start of a tunnel that was abandoned?
    Its probably the heading/flying junction that was constructed during the building of the loop & link to enable a connection south of central to one or more of the disused tunnels so the northern line could run to edge hill with extra underground stations along the way.

    Martin S knows more than me. Its a relatively hidden and unknown part of the system, same with the header built between hamilton square and James Street for a connection to the docks.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKie View Post
    Its probably the heading/flying junction that was constructed during the building of the loop & link to enable a connection south of central to one or more of the disused tunnels so the northern line could run to edge hill with extra underground stations along the way.

    Martin S knows more than me. Its a relatively hidden and unknown part of the system, same with the header built between hamilton square and James Street for a connection to the docks.
    SKie, I think it was a 1970s construction. I recall (dim memory) that they started the Edge Hill Spur to connect onto the Wapping Tunnel, as a part of the Outer Loop to make north and south loops from the centre outwards and back, but abandoned the idea. That cannot be a big job to re-start and why it is not being re-started when the city is expanding is beyond me.

    Originally the Birkenhead to Liverppool rail tunnel was to have a branch before James St stn that went to Huskisson Dock. They stared it and it ran for a number of yards. I used to go to Birkenhead a lot and used James St to Birkenhead Central. I recall seeing it through the dark and always wondered what it was.

    I think it was eventually used in the Loop Line of the 1970s.

    Lifted from one of your posts. This thread:here It shows the spur from Central that would connect onto the Wapping Tunnel for the "Edge Hill Spur". The diagram shows two schemes. One using the Wapping Tunnel and one using the Waterloo Tunnel:
    Last edited by Waterways; 03-06-2008 at 05:04 PM.
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    Would I be right in saying, then, that this 'metropolitan line' in orange does not exist at all? Because if it did it would certainly put a new slant on things.

    However, the tunnel that has been talked about, and can be seen in some of oritelad's pictures is very intriguing. I really must make a visit to these tunnels to see for myself. Access down to these tunnels looks difficult but I'll stick on a high-viz jacket and blag my way down (hopefully!).
    It seems as though the tunnel still exists (as can be seen on the pic with the small hole in the fence) and even if it is small and was used as a eg, undergound shed, it certainly gives food for thought.

    But this site, the one seen in Waterways post sent at 01.36am on Thursday... what is it used for now? what is its purpose?

    The 1970s diagram with the 'metropolitan line' does not look convincing to me. I don't know how it would work effectively, but I do agree that Central should be connected to Wapping tunnel, enabling direct trains from Ormskirk to Liverpool Parkway, and possibly a new station at Catherine St, although I believe the tunnel should be re-aligned if a new station is to be built, with a more centrally located station nearer the RC Cathedral. I'm not sure about the location of a Catherine St. Whos is it serving? Students.. I suppose, but not all, such as myself. The area is mainly populated by students living in the old Georgian houses who would probably never need to use the train.

    I believe the Waterloo tunnel should be used to divert traffic away from the Lime St line. So all local trains from St Helens, Warrington, Anfield, Mossley Hill etc would use this line (with a new University station, near the north end of Crown St and east end of Brownlow Hill - ideal for students travelling from a future Smithdown station - which simply must go ahead) and still finish at Lime St. Not sure about the logistics of a tunnel connecting Waterloo to Lime St but I think these proposals are the most sensible that I can think of, as I am still to be convinced by the 'loop' ideas.

    I also believe a realignment of the tunnel between Brunswick and Central MUST commence sooner rather than later, with a new station at King's Dock - a better location than the old Parliament St station. Times have changed and the rail network must adapt to these changes. Waterways is adamant about the need for undergound near Lodge Lane - but it's so close to town, let the buses take care of it.

    One station I do agree with on this 'loop' is one near the Waterloo docks, so perhaps his 'loop' could work after all, but minus a Lodge Lane station!

    ****, I've gone off-topic.

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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    [IMG]

    May 1982
    March 2008

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    tattooed gt-grandma quincyg's Avatar
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    not changed much really has it. I gather the first one was taken on a Sunday in the days before Sunday trading?
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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
    not changed much really has it. I gather the first one was taken on a Sunday in the days before Sunday trading?
    Yes, probably a Sunday (or any evening - I love empty streets!), and it was new in 1982, which accounts for the boarding up.
    It was 'modernised' a few years ago.

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    tattooed gt-grandma quincyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Yes, probably a Sunday (or any evening - I love empty streets!), and it was new in 1982, which accounts for the boarding up.
    It was 'modernised' a few years ago.
    I remember the modernisation. putting in tiles that are super slippy when wet was a wonderful improvement!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukeo25 View Post
    it looks like a ghost town in the may 82 pic
    Still, it's nice to see afew stripey traffic light poles!

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    visited the site of old hight level station yesterday such a sad feeling standing there remembering such a grand station it was so silent could see the old tunnel leading underground the road bridge seems to have been painted brown and cream i thought it used to be a blue green color? even the old metal pretestian bridge has been closed and getting knockdown now once this new development on the site starts we will loose every trace of this station we will never know it was ever there the road bridge is sopose to be getting knocked down the old tunnel sealed in and old station walls covered over such a shame

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    I took some pics in the car park a couple of weeks ago. I assume this is the area that the new development is going in?




    Proud Scouser, with a dabbling of Welsh and Irish.

    bore yourself silly at my Flickr page...anorak central!

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    Thanks for those pix quincy,and the one from the book. I've never been down there,perhaps I should before it vanishes!

    Dave.

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