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Thread: Fontenoy / Hodson St station

  1. #46
    www.oldliverpoolrailways. oritelad's Avatar
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    haha i know i shouldn't climb on historical fountains but i was desperate to see what was over the wall sorry l

    i do realize that the cutting in the center of the waterloo tunnel many do not believe was a station but from what i found out it was going to be and was still used to access the surface so it kind of was a station so i didn't want to ignore it but i do agree it was used for run away trains in the end shame it never became a proper station. but maybe it will be in the future

  2. #47
    Railway Signal Engineer mikewturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oritelad View Post
    haha i know i shouldn't climb on historical fountains but i was desperate to see what was over the wall sorry l

    i do realize that the cutting in the center of the waterloo tunnel many do not believe was a station but from what i found out it was going to be and was still used to access the surface so it kind of was a station so i didn't want to ignore it but i do agree it was used for run away trains in the end shame it never became a proper station. but maybe it will be in the future
    Hi

    When you say 'from what you found out..' What did you find out and where from?

    Mike

  3. #48
    www.oldliverpoolrailways. oritelad's Avatar
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    has anyone been down to investigate the site lately for possible remains of it being a station? now the rubbish has been cleared when merseyrail cleared the tunnel to investiagte the possibility of a new line?

  4. #49
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    I think it is clear there was never a full blown passenger station there.

    The four tunnels: Waterloo, Wapping, Dingle and Haymarket in Birkenhead are all in excellent condition. To bore just the waterloo Tunnel would cost around ?0.5 billion today.

    These tunnels have to be re-used as they would add great value to the Merseyrail transport network. Everyone gains then. An underground Circle Line would transform the city using the Waterloo and Dingle tunnels.
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  5. #50

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    Agreed. There never was a passenger station down there. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest otherwise.

    Disagree about the next paragraph though. You've plucked the figure of ?0.5bn out the air. And the tunnels are not in "excellent" condition. They might not be beyond repair, but they're not in an excellent condition.
    Said that, the Council don't care, MerseyTravel don't care, so what's the point? The city is run by a bunch of amateurs and the inner city is plagued by rats and scum.
    We could skip forward by 100 years right now to year 2109, and the city will still be the same, with the same old scumbags, living in squalid conditions.
    Street furniture in Liverpool consists of dog-dirt, chippy papers and carrier bags. Why should the people of this city get a brand new state-of-the-art transport network? They don't deserve one.
    The scum need to be sterilised to prevent them from breeding a new batch of scum (negative eugenics). This cycle will continue to prevail, unless we sterilise them, or lock them away. Investment in new prisons? Sounds good to me. Armed police? Check. Florida-style Police tanks? Check. Death sentence? Check.

    Get the law and order in place, then you can invest in transport/regeneration etc. It's like a football club spending millions on great players, but if they don't have discipline and respect for the management staff and the club, they will not perform. You can't "regenerate" an area through solely building new houses/offices or "creating a new Circle Line". It's pure fantasy.
    If the people aren't willing to participate in regeneration, the area will never improve. It's as simple as that.
    The amount of smackheads I see every time I'm in Liverpool/Bootle is frightening. Women in pyjamas on the street. Scum-rats walking round with evil dogs. Dress the city up how ever you please, it is a city of scum. To believe otherwise, well, you're just a luvvey.

  6. #51
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Hey perhaps the tunnels could be used as new prisons then - just brick up the ends when you reach a million.
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  7. #52
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc_everton View Post
    Disagree about the next paragraph though. You've plucked the figure of ?0.5bn out the air. And the tunnels are not in "excellent" condition. They might not be beyond repair, but they're not in an excellent condition.
    Current costs would be around 0.5 billion for the Waterloo alone. They are in good condition. Any problems would only cost a few million to put right which drops to small change when a new tunnel would be ?0.5 billion.

    The Haymarket Tunnel is for tracks wide and the tracks are still there. A whole station can be installed in the tunnel without too much rock cutting, if only two of the lines are used. The Dingle tunnel is in excellent condition indeed.

    Said that, the Council don't care, MerseyTravel don't care, so what's the point?
    That is defeatist. And what is the point of life in itself as well? True the council rate the city as a 2nd or 3rd tier city and they have a small town mentality too. That does not mean the rest of the people have to give up.

    One way is to introduce a middle class. The new apartments, which are sneered at by the working class. They claim they are empty so no new blocks should be built - what world are these people in? The Echo promotes that view too.


    You can't "regenerate" an area through solely building new houses/offices or "creating a new Circle Line". It's pure fantasy.
    Nonsense!!! Liverpool needs a mass injection of middle class. To attract them and companies you need the transport infrastructure and accommodation. The transport infrastructure is the catalyst. That is where investment should be directed. Transport for the core of the city. Not trams or extending Merseyrail to Wrexham or Skem. Spend where it is is disparately needed.

    If the people aren't willing to participate in regeneration, the area will never improve. It's as simple as that.
    Then you displace those negative people who don't want to know.

    You only go to the parts no one else wants to know. What you say equally applies to large parts of London, yet that city still moves on in big way.
    Last edited by Waterways; 01-26-2009 at 04:27 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  8. #53
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Hey perhaps the tunnels could be used as new prisons then - just brick up the ends when you reach a million.
    Good idea. A jail was on top of the end of the Waterloo tunnel at one time. It was built to house French Napoleonic prisoners of war.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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  9. #54

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    Once again, these monetary figures have no support whatsoever. What are you basing these costs on? I'm intrigued.
    If you can think of a similar project from around the world on a similar scale which cost a similar price, then, maybe you have a point.
    But for now, that figure of half a billion is just nonsense. Have a bit of dignity and admit this figure is not accurate.

    Liverpool needs a middle class.... where are they going to come from? Why would they want to come to a city infested with verminous humans, sorry, I mean, animals? Liverpool has a disease, and it is not going to be cured by building swanky new apartments with middle-class respectables coming into them. Nor will it be cured by a new rail line. What we have then is a prosperous city centre (a good thing) but what of the inner city? So, they will sneer at the middle classes living in luxurious waterfront apartments? Will this change their behaviour? Will it heck.

    You can't cure a disease by making it jealous. And this one will not "just go away". I don't care about the problems of London and other cities, that's their problem. The government have the power to cure this disease, and they can do this through extermination. The scum need to be sterilised, preventing them from breeding. Smackheads can help clean up these underground tunnels and the Aintree-Bootle line. If they step out of line, they will get shot. In the head.
    For those not working on the new rail system, they must be placed in concrete prisons, built on derelict land, with no windows, no bed, just a hole to relieve themselves. They will receive one slice of bread and cup of water a day.
    Can you imagine how bad this would be? Would ANYONE want to be locked away in a prison like that? Thought not.
    Treat scum like scum.
    We can even construct floating jails on canals and rivers. The boats would be concrete blocks, with no possible way in or out. Again, no windows or bed, just a slice of bread, in the same we feed ducks in the canal.

  10. #55
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Fantastic!
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  11. #56
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Is this disease just unique to Liverpool?

    I see other cities getting infrastructure money thrown at them!
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  12. #57
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Is this disease just unique to Liverpool?

    I see other cities getting infrastructure money thrown at them!
    Money for concrete prisons?
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

  13. #58

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    As I say, I don't care about other British cities (as regards to my argument). If they have similar problems, fine. If they don't, fine. Good for them.
    This disease is not unique, of course it isn't. Urban social problems exist all over the world. Different governments have different methods of tackling this. Again, in regards to my point, I don't care how successful these methods are, and I don't care about investment.
    Actually, of course I care about investment. Investment in guns, ammunition, tanks, helicopters, armed police, prisons, all this is good. Once we get the law and order in place, only then can we build "Sustainable Communities". And then we can attract middle-classes in to the city, and build fancy new rail lines, and so forth.
    Again, I drove through Walton and Bootle earlier today, and again I saw mounds of litter, smackheads, scumbags, and a society which bears more of a resemblance to Little Britain, not a "world-class city of culture".

  14. #59
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    How about people with guns in every train then. Then the rail system can be up and running ASAP.

    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

  15. #60
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Well i'm afraid until the good people stand up and be counted - or at least use the crimestoppers number anonymously more often, it'll remain so.

    Interesting that the crime free Capital city of Lithuania, Vilnius has taken over our capital of culture status.

    For me, getting bobbies back on the beat would be a surefire election winner as would getting tougher on knife/gun carriers and harbourers - one strike.

    Failing that, stop trying to poilce the world, leave it to America and use some of the army on the streets where needed and watch the plazzy gangsta culture evaporate when faced with real opposition. We could have utopia if it wasn't in the government's interest to seemingly keep some people down.
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