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Thread: Kriegsmarine U-534, Birkenhead

  1. #31

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    As I said, you're both welcome. I hope he likes them!


  2. #32

    Default Kriegsmarine U-Boats

    Chippie I found this site, it may be of some interest to your friend Frank
    and to some others on this forum. www.uboat.net

  3. #33
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chippie View Post
    Thanks Snappel, just read your report, very good. Sometimes it,s just as well we read about the other side,s stories, could make us feel human .

    Thank you again for your permission, Frank will be pleased.
    I hate to put a damper on all this...oh these poor German sailors. My uncle, a Liverpool merchant sailor, was killed in WW2 after being torpedoed in mid Atlanic by a U-Boat. The 15 year old cabin boy, from Liverpool, took to one of the 4 lifeboats launched and died of exposure.

    I can honestly say I hold no affection towards German U-Boat crews. None at all.

    This U-Boat shot down a British Liberator plane killing the crew? All it had to do was raise a white flag and attacks would have stopped. But, no they took to the gun. They had already been ordered to surrender by their own command and never - probably the reason the Cptn commited suicide as he knew he would have been hung. No time for them at all - scum!!!
    Last edited by Waterways; 09-29-2007 at 11:52 PM.
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  4. #34

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    That's such a narrow minded viewpoint.

    The U-boat crews were doing their job, just as our seamen were doing theirs. Both sides committed terrible acts. Your uncle may have died of exposure, but enough U-boats were savagely sunk even when they were crippled and incapable of retaliating. Those men suffered a death just as unpleasant.

    The only damper you've applied is on yourself...
    Last edited by Kev; 09-30-2007 at 09:49 PM.

  5. #35
    chippie
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    Hey waterways, the war is finished. We are a part Teutonic race, we have a German queen on the throne. I have relatives left in a French grave and three in a watery grave somewhere only they know. And the war ended over 60 years ago. You don,t have to forget but you can forgive. I don,t knoe how many of my family killed enemy husbands and sons, but all that was history. I ,m just thankful my pos came back and I didn,t have to go through it.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snappel View Post
    That's such a narrow minded viewpoint.

    The U-boat crews were doing their job, just as our seamen were doing theirs. Both sides committed terrible acts. Your uncle may have died of exposure, but enough U-boats were savagely sunk even when they were crippled and incapable of retaliating. Those men suffered a death just as unpleasant.

    The only damper you've applied is on yourself...
    The prime point is. We were right and they were wrong.

    "Savagely sunk"? If one came to the surface and was sinking they may have been ignored as other U-Boats were on the prowl and ships would not stop to assist for fear of torpedoes. Allied merchant ships were ordered not to stop when in convoy and many knowingly went right over British sailors in the water from a sinking further up the convoy. The last thing they wanted to do was risk their own lives for a U_Boat crew. Also the U-Boat crews did the odd acts like feining surrender and then open up. So, their intentions were not believed too often. They wee crewed by brainwashed kids were were in the Hitler youth, so were unpredictable.

    BTW, the uncle never died of exposure, the cabin boy did. Another uncle was torpedoed twice - but was never sunk,. The torpedoes never went off. He was in the engine room and one came crashing in near him. Lucky man.

    Before you start thinking that Germans in WW2 were fair and upright, look at what they did to the Russian civilians when they marched in, village after village - and they were NOT SS men either. Another uncle was one of the first to liberate Bergan-Belsen death camp. Have an evening by the fire listening to these men.

    No time for them as a whole, and especially the crew of THAT U-Boat.

    The modern German is a different animal though. I have worked there a number of times.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  7. #37
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chippie View Post
    Hey waterways, the war is finished.
    It is this poor German military men view I can't stand. Paint them as they were. Supporting an evil regime.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  8. #38
    chippie
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    We,ve been supporting an evil regime since we were called "Great Britain" marching into peaceful countries and killing the locals and calling their country ours. So don,t give me that Sh***

  9. #39
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chippie View Post
    We,ve been supporting an evil regime since we were called "Great Britain" marching into peaceful countries and killing the locals and calling their country ours. So don,t give me that Sh***
    We stopped that 150 years ago. By WW2 large sections of the empire was and was to be given independence.

    BTW, the British did not take territory for the sake of it. There
    was a policy against that most of the time. Ask Cecil Rhodes
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  10. #40
    chippie
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    Hang on a minute, do you have Cecil,s mobile number?

  11. #41
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chippie View Post
    Hang on a minute, do you have Cecil,s mobile number?
    Read Empire by Nial Ferguson.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  12. #42
    Senior Member shytalk's Avatar
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    Waterways, you are one of a kind. Hey fellas don't let him wind you up, he is the worlds number one expert at it. Glad to see you back BTW.
    You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
    Winston Churchill

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    It is this poor German military men view I can't stand. Paint them as they were. Supporting an evil regime.
    Just last Saturday I took my boy to see the USS Red Oak Victory (in Richmond, California), one of the last "Victory" ships built. Although this particular "Victory ship" (7000 ton armed merchantman) served in the Pacific (and Vietnam) rather than the Battle of the Atlantic, nonetheless the very old WWII era Chief Engineer on board has been on the Murmansk run and seen U-Boat action personally.

    What he said did not surprise me in the least. There was a U-Boat commander who came alongside his unarmed merchantman and gave loudhailer instructions on which side to launch lifeboats so the ship could be sunk "safely". (Bear in mind he was a "Chief" and engine-room officers were the among most vulnerable). There were other U-boat Kapitans who would use machine guns to strafe mariners trying to abandon ship.

    People are a mixture of decent and indecent everywhere in my experience. But it's little surprise that Henry Kaiser (Californian industrialist) persuaded Roosevelt to give up on Liberty ships and instead build "fast" (15 knots steam turbine)armed merchantmen instead. See http://www.ssredoakvictory.com/

    Liverpool needs to preserve what artifacts are left of and not forget it's WWII era marine history and its strong American connection. More American militarymen have passed through Liverpool than any other place in the UK. At the same time Liverpool needs to ensure that all new developments are focussed around the particularly strong and ancient maritime heritage that is a benefit few cities have.

    It would not be inappropriate to review and renew "Freedom of the (City, Borough, Town)" awards made by Merseyside Cities and Towns to American organisations. I see, for example, Freedom of the Town of Wallasey was granted to All US Forces in 1944, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../Wallasey.html). Nothing to be lost and everything to be gained from reminding them that there is no expiration (sic) date to "Freedom". American (and all Allied) servicemen in uniform should still travel free on the ferries for example.

  14. #44

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    Yes, I agree. There were plenty of reports of Allied servicemen shooting POW's in cold blood, etc. It's easy to think we were the universal defenders of good, but that wasn't always the case. There were good natured people on both sides, but unfortunately for your average soldier of sailor, you couldn't be choosy over which orders you obeyed.

    As it happens I'm off to Germany for a week in December, so it'll be interesting to see what remnants of the wars I can find.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snappel View Post
    Yes, I agree. There were plenty of reports of Allied servicemen shooting POW's in cold blood, etc. It's easy to think we were the universal defenders of good, but that wasn't always the case. There were good natured people on both sides, but unfortunately for your average soldier of sailor, you couldn't be choosy over which orders you obeyed.

    As it happens I'm off to Germany for a week in December, so it'll be interesting to see what remnants of the wars I can find.
    One of my pet history subject is WW2. I know a hell of lot about it. I advise you to do some reading about it.

    My uncle was on the first wave on D-Day and fought the SS hand to hand in Normandy. It was TNP (Take No Prisoners). They just shot the Germans in the heat of battle, especially the SS. In Burma the Japanese had a no surrender policy - they never in The Philippines or Manchuria - and the British killed around 100,000 of them. In the Far East, most Japanese troops were taken out of action by the British and the Soviets, not the USA.

    The British never systematically went through villages killing the inhabitants as the Germans did. We never had death camps and made death a production line. We never never said we were the master race and attempted to make all other subservient to us. We never attempted genocide.

    I can't stand all this bleeding heart PR crap.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

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