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Thread: St Johns Shopping Area

  1. #1
    kat2
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    Smile St Johns Shopping Area

    ST JOHNS shopping centre in Liverpool is to be completely rebuilt as part of a plan by its owner to compete with Grosvenor's Liverpool One scheme.

    Landlord Land Securities will be investing tens of millions of pounds in the complete overhaul of the centre from 2009 onwards. The company will also spend £5m on its nearby Clayton Square shops.

    The news about the major revamp for St Johns has been revealed in a podcast interview that can be heard in full at the Daily Post's business website, thebusinessweek.co.uk.

    In the interview, Clayton Square centre manager Ed Oliver, who is also vice chairman of Liverpool Chamber of Commerce, said the investment by Land Securities was in response to growing competition from the development of Liverpool One, the arrival in town of Primark and the refurbishment of Marks & Spencer on Church Street.

    Mr Oliver added: "There is a long-term plan for St Johns, a five-year project starting in

    2009. It's such a large project that we could not start it now and finish it in time for Capital of Culture, so the view is to start it after Capital of Culture in 2009."It's virtually the complete rebuilding of St Johns.


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    Last edited by kat2; 09-05-2007 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #2
    PhilipG
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    Will this be the third or the fourth time it's been rebuilt (or revamped)?
    It's always looked tacky, anyway.

  3. #3
    Senior Member jon_hall's Avatar
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    Think they were talking about this last summer, and stated then they would not be starting till after 2008 for the Capital of Culture reasoning.

    Clayton Sq is awful and considering they knocked down quite a bit it's also very small.

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    It's disgusting. As if the hoards of overweight miserable looking people buying ****e aren't enough, we have to have mirrors to multiply them. And then low ceilings to add to the claustrophobia. And then an endless plethora of cheap shoe (shu?) shops.

    And then Food Court. Oh my god it's disgusting in there.

    I hope they knock it down sooner rather than later...

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    I wonder why the top floor doesn't house all the street traders when there was that hoohar over them obstructing the pavement in Church st etc?
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=snappel;77429]It's disgusting. As if the hoards of overweight miserable looking people buying ****e aren't enough, we have to have mirrors to multiply them. And then low ceilings to add to the claustrophobia. And then an endless plethora of cheap shoe (shu?) shops.

    And then Food Court. Oh my god it's disgusting in there.





    ! ... that's just what it is like

    I just use it as a cut through.

    Very occassionally, near Xmas time usually, I might take a quick look in Woolworths, but there is nothing else in that precinct that I bother with.

    Ok - Wilkinsons is ok for certain bits & pieces - household things or plant pots


    I never look in any of those tacky shoe shops and clothes shops full of either tracksuits and trainers or teeny bopper tat


    .. as for the market - it's just so depressing.


    Clayton sq isn't much to write home about. There's nothing particularly nice about it.

  7. #7
    Libertarian
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    [QUOTE=lindylou;77434]
    Quote Originally Posted by snappel View Post
    It's disgusting. As if the hoards of overweight miserable looking people buying ****e aren't enough, we have to have mirrors to multiply them. And then low ceilings to add to the claustrophobia. And then an endless plethora of cheap shoe (shu?) shops.

    And then Food Court. Oh my god it's disgusting in there.





    ! ... that's just what it is like

    I just use it as a cut through.

    Very occassionally, near Xmas time usually, I might take a quick look in Woolworths, but there is nothing else in that precinct that I bother with.

    Ok - Wilkinsons is ok for certain bits & pieces - household things or plant pots


    I never look in any of those tacky shoe shops and clothes shops full of either tracksuits and trainers or teeny bopper tat


    .. as for the market - it's just so depressing.


    Clayton sq isn't much to write home about. There's nothing particularly nice about it.
    St John's is pretty awful agreed but there is a place for shops of that sort.

    It's good news that they are going to do it up.

    The market needs a lot doing to it and the disused upper level should go. They could also do something with the roof and allow natural light in.

    As for Clayton Square I remember when it opened in about 1988 and it was lovely. However, they revamped it when Virgin moved in and ruined it by putting a floor over the main mall area, thus blocking out the light.
    The architect even complained about it.

    To my mind it was never built to house a great deal of shops but was supposed to be an elegant arcade, however, they tried to squash too many shops into it and ruined it.
    Last edited by Libertarian; 09-06-2007 at 05:43 PM.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Suburban;77439]
    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post

    St John's is pretty awful agreed but there is a place for shops of that sort.

    Its good news that they are going to do it up.

    The market needs a lot doing to it and the disused upper level should go.

    ha, I'm not a total snob I did work in St John's market many years ago.
    During the 1970s when it was thriving and a busy place. All the stalls were open and doing a roaring trade, the upstairs was in full swing, noisy and bright and there was always music playing from the record stall. I remember when the market would be really crowded and there would be queues of people waiting to be served. It was a good community among the stall holders too .

    The market never picked up after the last fire.

    I can't understand why they left the upstairs part to fall into such decline and remain empty and boarded up.

    The market is not just a shadow of it's former self, but hardly recognisable form the days when I worked there.

    As I said, It's just so depressing now.

  9. #9
    Libertarian
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    [QUOTE=lindylou;77441]
    Quote Originally Posted by Suburban View Post


    ha, I'm not a total snob I did work in St John's market many years ago.
    During the 1970s when it was thriving and a busy place. All the stalls were open and doing a roaring trade, the upstairs was in full swing, noisy and bright and there was always music playing from the record stall. I remember when the market would be really crowded and there would be queues of people waiting to be served. It was a good community among the stall holders too .

    The market never picked up after the last fire.

    I can't understand why they left the upstairs part to fall into such decline and remain empty and boarded up.

    The market is not just a shadow of it's former self, but hardly recognisable form the days when I worked there.

    As I said, It's just so depressing now.
    Yeh I agree Lindy, and ive never thought of you as a snob. However, my feelings on the market are that it is simply a victim of changing fashions and tastes. In the 70's it was very popular, my old gran whose 94 still went there once a week until last year when she went in a home.

    However, thats the point, it tends to appeal to the older generation, young girls are more likely to shop in the Met Quarter orr the Trafford Centre. Nowt wrong with markets though, they can be 'reinvented' with the right efforts look at the continental markets in Williamson Square.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Suburban;77439]
    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    As for Clayton Square I remember when it opened in about 1988 and it was lovely. However, they revamped it when Virgin moved in and ruined it by putting a floor over the main mall area, thus blocking out the light.
    The architect even complained about it.

    To my mind it was never built to house a great deal of shops but was supposed to be an elegant arcade, however, they tried to squash too many shops into it and ruined it.

    yes, I suppose when you stop to think about it, there are perhaps too many shops crammed in.

    When I said that Clayton sq isn't much to write home about, I should have clarified that I meant the outside of Clayton sq (Parker st) rather than the interior shops.
    Those steep steps leading down into Parker st, and that terrible tv screen.
    It's not particularly attractive.
    It amazes me why the steps are so steep because I don't recall Parker street being on such a steep incline. there was a bit of a slope running up to Lime street as I remember it.

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    Senior Member HollyBlack's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=lindylou;77441]
    Quote Originally Posted by Suburban View Post
    ha, I'm not a total snob I did work in St John's market many years ago.
    During the 1970s when it was thriving and a busy place. The market never picked up after the last fire. I can't understand why they left the upstairs part to fall into such decline and remain empty and boarded up.

    As I said, It's just so depressing now.
    'twas ever so, I guess.

    I remember when the "new" St. John's market was new, my mother saying how very much poorer it was than the previous (Victorian) St. John's market. That would be around 1970?

    If the old plans, drawings, photographs still exist somewhere then the new people could do well to look them over and see whether they can incorporate some of the superficial appearance and layout of the old Victorian market into a new building. Of course in the 1950s, the entire area was replete with casual street vendors (barrow boys etc) that lent so much scouse charm.

    Like big mugs of steaming hot tea sold at the Pier Head while waiting for a ferry, just so many memories. "Echo!, Echo!, Last City Echo!".
    Last edited by HollyBlack; 09-07-2007 at 12:49 AM.

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    Senior Member skgogosfan's Avatar
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    For the amount of money they're proposing to spend [maybe a little more] they could demolish the whole thing and the multi-storey car park,and rebuild the old St John's Market building with an underground car park,and still have space left over on Lime St for a park!

    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    yes, I suppose when you stop to think about it, there are perhaps too many shops crammed in.

    When I said that Clayton sq isn't much to write home about, I should have clarified that I meant the outside of Clayton sq (Parker st) rather than the interior shops. Those steep steps leading down into Parker st, and that terrible tv screen.
    It's not particularly attractive. It amazes me why the steps are so steep because I don't recall Parker street being on such a steep incline. there was a bit of a slope running up to Lime street as I remember it.
    About the slope-you're right Lindy,it wasn't that steep. Someone tipped me off about some negotiations when Clayton Square was "in the works"...they wanted Boots in there as an anchor tenant as Boots wanted to have a better store than the one then on Church St [now the Lloyds TSB bank],but...Boots did NOT want to have a basement,they wanted a ground level entrance,hence the street gradient and plans were amended to suit,in order to ensure Boots would be in there,which is why Parker Street is now "split level"!

    Another thing that Clayton Square did was block off the right of way that existed previously there which annoys me a little. If you want to go between the gyratory and Central Station in the evenings,it's a detour via Lime St or Church St. Grr.

    Dave.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    amazing ! Who would have thought a retail business could dictate like that !

    I don't like that split level, I think it looks awful - those steep steps just look horrible to me. Just a means of getting from A to B. Not at all attractive.

  14. #14
    PhilipG
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    Thanks skg.
    Funnily enough, I was just going to say that Boots is on a lower level than the street was originally.
    It's interesting to know the reason why it happened.

    The ironic thing is that there used to be an external escalator to St John's Centre before Clayton Square Mall was built.
    Now they've got (steep) steps, there isn't one.
    Good planning?
    I think not!
    Last edited by PhilipG; 09-10-2007 at 10:45 AM.

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    I've never liked St John's. It just screams "tacky" to me, I can never find my way on the upper level at the escalators cos you can't tell what's "really there" and what's just the mirrors, and I always get completely disorientated. They could at least put some meaningful direction signs up, to Lime St, Queens Sq and Parker St.

    It would be great if they could knock down the whole lot, and redo it as open streets.

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    Couldn't find any of old st.Johns,but two of these pic's show Charlotte st. went from Roe st. right through to Lewis's, which i never realised,with the market on the right. Also, there's one of Roe st. itself, showing plenty of market related traffic.
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    Last edited by wsteve55; 09-11-2007 at 12:22 AM. Reason: forgotten source!

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    Greta pics wsteve55, I remember the Street market well, with the 'Barkers' doing mock auctions as loud as they could. I always felt sorry for the puppies they used to sell, wondered what happened to the ones that didn't sell. It was good entertainment and if you wanted more amusement you could always get a laugh in the magic Clock pub, The old Queens used to put on a great show in there.
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    I think Charlotte st/Gt Charlotte st went even further than that, right down to Whitechapel.
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    ST JOHN’S Shop- ping Centre has re- ceived a Liverpool City Central Busi- ness Improvement District (BID) award for its contribution towards celebrating 800 years of the city of Liverpool. Read
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Thanks skg.
    Funnily enough, I was just going to say that Boots is on a lower level than the street was originally. It's interesting to know the reason why it happened.

    The ironic thing is that there used to be an external escalator to St John's Centre before Clayton Square Mall was built.
    Now they've got (steep) steps, there isn't one.
    Good planning?
    I think not!
    There still is,next to Beaverbrooks. There's usually an Echo seller right by them. In fact there are two there,one up,one down. Or did you mean something else?

    What I'd like to know is what's behind those green doors that seemingly lead under those steps linking the two levels of Parker St. A mystery void? I think it's something to do with the electrics but IDK.

    amazing ! Who would have thought a retail business could dictate like that !

    Money talks,especially in the 80s when major investment in the city was less than today.

    I think Charlotte st/Gt Charlotte st went even further than that, right down to Whitechapel.

    It did. Sadly no more,it's "Great" in name only!

    Dave.

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    jimmy jimmy's Avatar
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    Default St Johns Market

    Nov 15 2007

    MULTI-MILLION pound plans to refurbish Liverpool's largest shopping centres are about to take a major step forward.

    Discussions are taking place between Liverpool City Council and Land Securities, owners of the St John's shopping centre, about the planned refurbishment, first revealed by the Daily Post last year.

    The Council’s Executive Board will be asked next week to authorise discussions between the council and Land Securities about the shopping centre and endorse the relocation of St John’s Market to a new state of the art facility as part of the refurbished centre

    They will also approve a lease to allow the construction of a media wall to screen the facade of the centre from Lime Street Station which is designed to provide a welcome statement to visitors to Liverpool during the Capital of Culture year and beyond

    A report about the negotiations will be considered by the Board on November 23.

    Land Securities is aiming to start the refurbishment in early 2009 with the market moving in 2010. The space currently occupied by the market would be used for new shopping units, food court and a double-height mall. The centre as a whole will be comprehensively refurbished to provide a modern environment for Liverpool’s shoppers.

    Cllr Mike Storey, Executive Member for Regeneration, said: “With the Liverpool One development about to open it is important that we ensure that our existing shopping centres thrive.

    “Land Securities are showing great confidence in Liverpool with their plans for refurbishing the centre which will regenerate this part of the city centre.”

    Cllr Berni Turner , Executive Member for the Environment added: “There are still a lot of discussions to take place but there is general agreement moving the market is the best way forward for the future of St John’s Market which is a very important part of the shopping experience in the city.

    “We will be looking at ways in which we can make the market more accessible to the people of Liverpool,”

    Nick Davis, Development Director for Land Securities said: "Discussions with the Council are ongoing. As soon as they have been concluded we will undertake a major public consultation exercise on the exciting proposals for St John's Shopping Centre.

    "Land Securities is keen to make a major investment in the centre and contribute to the recent renaissance of Liverpool"

    St John's Shopping Centre currently operates 105 retail units extending to a total of 360,000 sq ft. Completed in 1969, the Centre is the largest covered shopping environment in Liverpool.

    The planned media wall, which will be 90 metres by 11 metres, will have a screen on which adverts will be displayed and will also be used to promote Capital of Culture events

    Land Securities owns some of Britain's best-known shopping centres, such as the Birmingham Bullring and Gunwharf Quays in Portsmouth, as well as London landmarks such as the Piccadilly Lights and Westminster City Hall. Land Securities are investing millions of pounds in urban renaissance and regeneration in city centres and urban areas across the UK.

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    Senior Member julieoapw's Avatar
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    Knock it all down and start again - it's an eyesore!
    Julie

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    St John's market is a depressing hole !

  24. #24
    John(Zappa)
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    St John's market is a depressing hole !
    I'll second that!

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  26. #26
    chippie
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    Default PULL THEM DOWN....oh I got carried away there for a minute.

    Alot of people are saying that St John,s will become redundant when Liverpool1 opens, but I don,t know. There has to be somewhere for the pyjama women to go don,t there like, I mean, I can,t see the Duck of Westminster who will be on the door, letting that shower in, can you.

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