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Thread: Controversial Martin Luther King Memorial to be Unveiled in Washington, D.C.

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Default Controversial Martin Luther King Memorial to be Unveiled in Washington, D.C.

    I must say that I don't like the memorial to Dr. Martin Luther King that is about to be unveiled on August 28 in Washington, D.C. It is a monumental statue sculpted by Chinese sculptor Lei Yi Xin. The face of Martin Luther King looks, frankly, Chinese, and the monument might be more appropriate for a colossal statue of Mao than the American civil rights leader. The statue looks threatening rather than welcoming, as some have already commented. See the Washington Post site for more information on the monument and its upcoming dedication.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    I must say that I don't like the memorial to Dr. Martin Luther King that is about to be unveiled on August 28 in Washington, D.C. It is a monumental statue sculpted by Chinese sculptor Lei Yi Xin. The face of Martin Luther King looks, frankly, Chinese, and the monument might be more appropriate for a colossal statue of Mao than the American civil rights leader. The statue looks threatening rather than welcoming, as some have already commented. See the Washington Post site for more information on the monument and its upcoming dedication.

    Chris
    I guess it's all in the eye of the artist - who would have though of a Chinese MLK...

    I think your comments are spot on. Mao and Stalin would be proud to have statues like that.

    The stone out of the mountain idea is neat, it's just overdone in size.

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    Thanks, AZ.

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    At $120 million cost you would have thought it would at least have looked like him. It's also far to big, what's wrong with life size, why does it have to be so massive ?

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Hmm, I can't make up my mind really .. .. on first glance he does look a bit like one of the Terracotta army! .. and I agree that it's a bit Mao like, but looking at some of the Google images, it doesn't look too bad from certain angles.

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mar...w=1166&bih=653

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    It can only be a good thing that they made a statue to commemmorate the guy at all TBH. More deserving than most Presidents, I'd say too. The US have, maybe rightly or wrongly, looked on the appointment of this Chinese sculptor as a bad thing - thats inbuilt plain ol' USA patriotism for you. Would a White American Sculptor have tackled this on such scale or grandeur? More likely have been made in 3 years instead of the 20-odd, and for 3 or 4 million instead of the 120million. and be 6 foot tall. Then would we have had any different response? I doubt it..

    Unfortunately you then look at the UK, and they'd rather spend that sort of money on unnecessary tat and plonk it in the capital so it can be called a 'national' icon. History has no value these days. Not to Joe public anyway. I say they should buckle up and appreciate what they are getting over there. I'd love to see NEW stuff like this here. Rarely do you see a statue that resmbles its subject. However I dont really think this is that bad an attempt.
    He was a colossal man and quite imposing by all accounts anyway. Maybe if they wanted genteel they should have opted for Robeson and got the old McCarthy war flags back out? Or would that be a tad TOO close to the patriotic nerve?

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    Hmm, I can't make up my mind really .. .. on first glance he does look a bit like one of the Terracotta army! .. and I agree that it's a bit Mao like, but looking at some of the Google images, it doesn't look too bad from certain angles.

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mar...w=1166&bih=653
    But a major memorial in a capital city should look good from all angles...

    ---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by corky100 View Post
    It can only be a good thing that they made a statue to commemmorate the guy at all TBH. More deserving than most Presidents, I'd say too. The US have, maybe rightly or wrongly, looked on the appointment of this Chinese sculptor as a bad thing - thats inbuilt plain ol' USA patriotism for you. Would a White American Sculptor have tackled this on such scale or grandeur? More likely have been made in 3 years instead of the 20-odd, and for 3 or 4 million instead of the 120million. and be 6 foot tall. Then would we have had any different response? I doubt it..
    Nice bit of anti-Americanism...

    However this Chinese-American lady made one of the most famous memorials in Washington - a few contraversies on missing content, but the genreal thought and execution was amazing and unique -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Lin

    The judgement is on the output, not the artist....

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    Sorry Az_gila - that wasnt really meant to be anti-American, but most of the arguments from US citizens have been kind of along that theme of should be 'American made by American workers'. I can understand their view, but just argued that the result would, although obviously been different, have resulted in arguments and distaste all the same. You can never win!
    As for Presidents... Would you say any president has done as much for his people as such like as MLK? Nixon or JFK? debatable really... Yet a statue to them seems to be a given at times.

    The Chinese have a much more refined eye for art regardless of politics, and a more specific eye for art that is embedded within Politics.. Here they have tried to be sympathetic to both ideals. I have no problems with who has made it or what the history dictates this art should be
    I prefer to see art without politics but unfortunatley both seem to be tethered at the neck too much!
    Bottom line is I like whats been done regardless of who designed or created it.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky100 View Post
    It can only be a good thing that they made a statue to commemmorate the guy at all ..

    Unfortunately you then look at the UK, and they'd rather spend that sort of money on unnecessary tat and plonk it in the capital so it can be called a 'national' icon. History has no value these days. Not to Joe public anyway.
    I can agree with that

    As you say, it seems that sometimes people revere tat instead of history.



    It's great that there is an impressive statue of Martin Luther King whether it is a spot on likeness or not.

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky100 View Post
    ...As for Presidents... Would you say any president has done as much for his people as such like as MLK? Nixon or JFK? debatable really... Yet a statue to them seems to be a given at times.
    ....
    It may be debatable, but as far as I can tell there is no real statue of either Nixon or JFK in Washington DC.

    There are a few busts of both in museums and the like, and JFK has a Performing Arts Center named after him, but just markers at his gravesite in Arlington.

    Recent (or at least fairly recent) presidents don't seem to get statues, so it's not realy a given...

    The US does not seem to go for giant, way bigger than life-size statues in the Mao/Stalin tradition except for 100+ year dead presidents. That may be why the design of this one is causing controversy.

    ---------- Post added at 12:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

    Rapid City, SD - near Mt. rushmore, has a nice collection of presidential statues scattered around their down town area. One for each president cast life size in bronze. It's a neat collection to see -

    http://www.visitrapidcity.com/whatto...yofpresidents/

    No giant Mao ones here though - got to go the Mt. rushmore for that...

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure that the man himself would be overly impressed by the size of this statue !

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    ...is coming out.

    The artist is an accomplished Mao statue carver -

    Mr Lei, who has in the past carved two statues of Mao Tse-tung, one of which stands in the former garden of Mao Anqing, the Chinese leader's son, carried out almost all of the work in Changsha.

    ...and this bit, which I find pretty disgusting -

    The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s family has charged the foundation building a monument to the civil-rights leader on the National Mall about $800,000 to use his words and image -- and at least one scholar thinks that Dr. King would find such an arrangement offensive.
    The memorial is being paid for almost entirely through a fund-raising campaign led by the Martin Luther King Jr. National Memorial Project Foundation.
    "I don't think the Jefferson family, the Lincoln family [or] any other group of family ancestors has been paid a licensing fee for a memorial in Washington," said Cambridge University historian David Garrow, author of a Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Dr. King. ". . . [He would've been] absolutely scandalized."
    Financial documents revealed that the foundation paid $761,160 in 2007 to Intellectual Properties Management Inc., an entity run by the King family. They also showed that a $71,700 "management" fee was paid to the family estate in 2003.

    As Marty said, I think the good doctor would be quite unimpressed about what is going on around his statue - rolling over in his grave comes to mind.

    As to my previous comments on the size of statues of long deceased presidents, this clip says that it even out does the two most famous DC statues in size! It is also like my earler cathederal "visual massing" comments - not only is the statue itself physically large, but the "mountain" behind it makes it overwhelming compared to the other two famous memorials.

    The statue, meanwhile, will be 11ft taller than the statues in the Lincoln and Jefferson memorials.

    I think we will hear a lot more complaints as more information becomes nationally available. A pity since it diverts attention away from the real intent of the unveiling.

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Thanks, AZ. Of course I am more aware of the monument and the impending unveiling because I work in D.C. I emailed the following to Courtland Milloy, an African-American writer with the Washington Post, who asked for readers' reactions to the monument. He emailed back to say he agreed with me. As you will see from the following, I have written for a local Baltimore publication about monuments to prominent blacks.

    Hello Mr Milloy

    I love a well designed monument and as a local historian I have written about Baltimore monuments for The Urbanite magazine in Baltimore (http://www.baltimoremd.com/monuments/douglass1.html and http://www.baltimoremd.com/monuments/thurgood.html) however I find the MLK monument as designed to be disturbing and unfriendly in that it facially doesn't look enough like Dr. King and doesn't project his kinder, humanitarian side.

    It is perhaps significant that the sculptor, Lei Yi Xin, is Chinese and he has made Dr. King look Chinese rather than African American. How did his design get approved? While the size of this monumental scupture is fitting to the stature of Dr. King -- and I do like the mountain concept -- the way he is modeled in that hostile stance is more fitting to a sculpture for Mao than for America's great Civil Rights leader. This is unfortunate, in my view.

    Best regards

    Christopher T. George

    ---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

    The memorial is costing $120 million part of it coming from the Hilfiger Foundation

    Chris
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    Not impressed....there are some much better statues of MLK...............

    http://www.ethicsoup.com/americas-ma...hoto-tour.html

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    ....
    I love a well designed monument and as a local historian I have written about Baltimore monuments for The Urbanite magazine in Baltimore ....

    Chris
    I am on a local town board, and one of it's functions is approving public art.
    Our town has a 1% of cost requirement for public art - the code requirements being here -

    http://www.orovalleyaz.gov/Assets/_a...Public+Art.pdf

    This one would have caused considerable discussion on some of the code points...

    Location and fitting in...

    ---------- Post added at 08:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzie1 View Post
    Not impressed....there are some much better statues of MLK...............

    http://www.ethicsoup.com/americas-ma...hoto-tour.html
    Good job the Chinese artist didn't see this one



    Or he would have used one of his previous ones and copied it....



    But even the Chinese seem to have a better review criteria -

    According to the regulation, mass-produced Mao statues must pass a strict examination by at least five experts to ensure the expression, hairstyle, facial- and body-features, costume and posture reflect Mao’s real appearance. What’s more, the statue cannot be made out of plastic. If there are Mao statues failed to meet the new technical criteria, they may be confiscated and destroyed by relevant authorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzie1 View Post
    Not impressed....there are some much better statues of MLK...............

    http://www.ethicsoup.com/americas-ma...hoto-tour.html
    Excellent, thanks, Lizzie. Any of those memorials would be better. By the way, it's a truism that some statues are used in multiple places. I know of the same Roger Brooke Taney statue that can be seen in Washington, D.C., Baltimore, and Annapolis. He's the controversial Supreme Court justice who gave the Dred Scott ruling that led to the Civil War. And one of "Braveheart" William Wallace the Scottish hero can be seen both in Scotland (Stirling I believe) and in Druid Hill Park, Baltimore.

    Chris

    ---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
    But even the Chinese seem to have a better review criteria -

    According to the regulation, mass-produced Mao statues must pass a strict examination by at least five experts to ensure the expression, hairstyle, facial- and body-features, costume and posture reflect Mao’s real appearance. What’s more, the statue cannot be made out of plastic. If there are Mao statues failed to meet the new technical criteria, they may be confiscated and destroyed by relevant authorities.
    Hi AZ

    Thanks for this. I don't know whether you heard the controversy that the image of the Statue of Liberty on the recently produced U.S. postage stamp is based on the replica of the statue in Las Vegas rather than the original. To me that's a storm in a teacup since it's still the likeness of the original statue on Liberty Island.

    Chirs
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    Senior Member Lizzie1's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware of the Statue of Martin Luther King at Westminster Abbey...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Excellent, thanks, Lizzie. Any of those memorials would be better. By the way, it's a truism that some statues are used in multiple places. I know of the same Roger Brooke Taney statue that can be seen in Washington, D.C., Baltimore, and Annapolis. He's the controversial Supreme Court justice who gave the Dred Scott ruling that led to the Civil War. And one of "Braveheart" William Wallace the Scottish hero can be seen both in Scotland (Stirling I believe) and in Druid Hill Park, Baltimore.

    Chris

    ...
    And don't forget that Eros in Sefton Park has a "brother" in Picadilly Circus.

    Why not re-use the statue mould? Early 30's recycling at it's finest...

    http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/c...sculpture.aspx

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s family has charged the foundation building a monument to the civil-rights leader on the National Mall about $800,000 to use his words and image -- and at least one scholar thinks that Dr. King would find such an arrangement offensive.
    The memorial is being paid for almost entirely through a fund-raising campaign led by the Martin Luther King Jr. National Memorial Project Foundation.
    Getting away from the subject a tad, how can you fund raise on one hand, then charge with the other. I would imagine MLK would have been livid, it only goes to show that all he said and meant was lost on his own family ! Having said that, whatever his family do, does not take away from his achievements or his standing in the world !

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty1 View Post
    Getting away from the subject a tad, how can you fund raise on one hand, then charge with the other. I would imagine MLK would have been livid, it only goes to show that all he said and meant was lost on his own family ! Having said that, whatever his family do, does not take away from his achievements or his standing in the world !
    I agree on the achievements - but I think the family foundation (could be called cashing in?) is a different entity from the foundation that colected money and paid for the memorial.

    None of the family are directors or leaders of the Memorial Organization -

    http://www.mlkmemorial.org/site/c.hk..._Directors.htm

    http://www.mlkmemorial.org/site/c.hk...Leadership.htm

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    Hi all

    As some of you may know, the Martin Luther King Memorial in Washington, D.C. was due to be officially opened to the public on Sunday but the event was postponed because of Hurricane Irene bearing down on the capital and the mid-Atlantic region.

    Poet Maya Angelou was an advisor to the project and she has a problem with wording carved on the side of mountain side from which the giant figure of King emerges. This summarizes a statement made by King that some might think him a drum major for justice, peace and righteousness but takes his words out of context so that the humility in which King made the statement is discarded to make it more blandly read, "I was a drum major for justice, peace, and righteousness" which makes him seem arrogant. Angelou is quoted in today's Washington Post as saying, "The quote makes Dr. Martin Luther King look like an arrogant twit" and that "It makes him seem an egoist" when he was anything but that. See story here.

    All the best

    Chris
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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi all

    As some of you may know, the Martin Luther King Memorial in Washington, D.C. was due to be officially opened to the public on Sunday but the event was postponed because of Hurricane Irene bearing down on the capital and the mid-Atlantic region.

    Poet Maya Angelou was an advisor to the project and she has a problem with wording carved on the side of mountain side from which the giant figure of King emerges. This summarizes a statement made by King that some might think him a drum major for justice, peace and righteousness but takes his words out of context so that the humility in which King made the statement is discarded to make it more blandly read, "I was a drum major for justice, peace, and righteousness" which makes him seem arrogant. Angelou is quoted in today's Washington Post as saying, "The quote makes Dr. Martin Luther King look like an arrogant twit" and that "It makes him seem an egoist" when he was anything but that. See story here.

    All the best

    Chris
    Ahh... nothing like taking words out of context... but it's done all of the time... usually by the press....

    However, Ms. Angelou should really have attended the meetings if she wanted her input to be known before the carving started -

    "Angelou was one of the memorial’s Council of Historians tasked with selecting the inscriptions for the memorial. But she did not attend meetings about the inscriptions, Jackson said."

    And - talking about the press - this was the Washington Post headline

    Maya Angelou says King memorial inscription makes him look ‘arrogant’

    I read that as saying that she didn't like the look of the statue, but in fact she said "it makes him sound arrogant" - no reference in the article as to whether she liked the actual statue.

    The press fails again....

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    Hi AZ

    I expect everyone is going to have a different reaction to the memorial. My friend Dave Eberhardt, a Baltimore poet who served a prison sentence for pouring blood on draft cards in the Sixties, thinks it insufficiently honors other activists and not just King. Here is a letter he sent to various people:

    "as a veteran of the civil rights movement- CORE in Baltimore- my expectations of the King statue memorial week have been realized. It has been full of 'missing the point' re Dr King- for example were persons who are continuing his legacy be honored? such as the DC Catholic Worker, Jonah House in Baltimore war protestors, or Code Pink that speaks truth to power? will they? those who disrupt the war makers? like Obama?

    "The statue is great- other wise proceedings have largely been a sham- glad to see at least Sharpton had a march- next maybe he'd go to jail- we're talkin militant non-violent civil disobediance- activism- not speeches and expos- that is the way to honor Dr. King.

    "Yeh i know you're 'talking' but keep on a walking- 'Aint gonna let nobuddy turn me around', etc. dave eberhardt."
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Unfortuneately your friends use of Sharpton as an example shows how downhill the movement has gone since MLK....

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