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Thread: Why 08's boring

  1. #1
    Libertarian
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    Default Why 08's boring

    I am sick of hearing about the capital of culture already so I thought I would attempt to instigate a backlash.


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    What exactly is 08 all gonna be about? Don't get me wrong if the regeneration of the city in the name of 08 continues that's a good thing although it is debatable if anything other than Yuppie flats is being built.

    However, it seems to me that in 08 we can all go shopping in the Grosvenor Development (WOOOPEEDI!) Or go and see Simon Rattle on the Philharmonic (WHO?) I'm sure the people of Kensington or Anfield are already saving their giro's up to pay for days out planned by all those trendy wendys in the culture company.

  2. #2
    kat2
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    why would you want to do that? after all, new jobs have and are being created, look at how many new retail jobs have been created. Look at how many construction staff have work. Maybe yes yuppie flats but yuppy flats bring prosperity and money to the area, they pay council tax too, and the more buildings the more council tax the lower the over all bill!. I think its a golden oppotunity to promote all things good about Liverpool.
    kat

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suburban View Post
    What exactly is 08 all gonna be about?
    I think that's half the problem - we don't know what it's about! But given all the tales we are hearing about local arts organisations, local trade union branches, local community groups, etc. being excluded - we suspect it is NOT going to be about us.

    PS What has the regeneration of the built environment got to do with the Capital of Culture?

  4. #4
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    Yeh I agree but i think we are missing something here. Its like people who don't like christmas and 08 seems like a year long enforced christmas which is not only an anticlimax but smaltzy and bland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie View Post
    I think that's half the problem - we don't know what it's about! But given all the tales we are hearing about local arts organisations, local trade union branches, local community groups, etc. being excluded - we suspect it is NOT going to be about us.
    I actually agree with you on that Howie.

  6. #6
    kat2
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    ** I thought it was a combination of the citys birthday and winning the capital of culture award, I dont think it was ever about the local population, that just rides on the back, its about historic events, isnt it? I mean how can you do things about local people, unless of course there long dead?
    the regeneration of the city I would have thought was more to do with prosperity and investment (faith in) the city of Liverpool. I think it will be a good year for all things historical, fine architecture, historic events, culturalism. I agree though that local people should take part in promoting all things good.
    its not about spending money on the people of liverpool, its about the history and divirsity of the city over the years.
    what did you think it was? give away free things?
    this is a once in a life time event for the council to try and pull investment in, to try and create new jobs, off the back of new homes.
    kat

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    I thought the idea was to bring the people of Europe together by designating cities for a year to showcase their culture.

  8. #8
    kat2
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    I wouldnt have thought their culture, rather the citys historical culture, were so multi cultural now it wouldnt matter. I thought it was to do with the citys history and all things that the city has stood for? as in past tense?
    in other words what made Liverpool and its architecture what it is today?
    kat

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Why can't a giant 08 Logo be made out of fire and placed somewhere In the city centre next year?

    All their building Is retail places and flats for Students or rich people.

    More things made out of fire must be made!

    A flaming liver bird sculpture rising from the ashes would be a fine Livepool sculpture.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kat2 View Post
    I wouldnt have thought their culture, rather the citys historical culture, were so multi cultural now it wouldnt matter. I thought it was to do with the citys history and all things that the city has stood for? as in past tense?
    in other words what made Liverpool and its architecture what it is today?
    kat
    That's right Kat - culture past and present, including a history of fighting oppression from the anti-slavery movement to the dock strikes.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Why can't a giant 08 Logo be made out of fire and placed somewhere In the city centre next year?

    All their building Is retail places and flats for Students or rich people.

    More things made out of fire must be made!

    A flaming liver bird sculpture rising from the ashes would be a fine Livepool sculpture.
    Maybe we can organise something for May Day, Max!

  12. #12
    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Well I can burn something.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Senior Member phredd's Avatar
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    Just to pick up on a phrase Kat2 used :- "Yuppie Flats"

    If the building rate on "Yuppie Flats" carries on at this rate there will be more of them in Liverpool than the much needed Council Houses.
    Just my thoughts.

    Phredd
    In the days when we had nothing we had fun.
    If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.

  14. #14
    PhilipG
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    I thought European Capital of Culture was some sort of consolation prize given to poor cities to give them a boost.
    But isn't Liverpool saying it's even that poor that it can't afford it?

    The Duke of Westminster will benefit from the Grosvenor development, but I don't think I'll be able to afford to do much shopping there!

  15. #15
    kat2
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    Hi, Phredd,
    they dont build council houses any more, the more yuppie flats the better, that keeps the council tax down (higher band rating) where as social housing generally is a much lower band hence a short fall. I think its a good idea, recently over here I have mentioned to the chairman of the housing committe that we need to look at that concept here on the wirral, after all councils need money to provide services it collects revenue via its council tax service, the higher the band the more it collects which keeps the over all council tax level down. I have put forward that we need to look at building luxury estates in desirable areas to live. Social housing sadly seems to be in decline in liverpool, recently (i posted yesterday) one housing development company sold up and moved out of Liverpool. I know from my own council exeriences the best thing we did was get out of the council housing business. Thats not that I am against social housing but the sheer amount of maintainance costs on these estates through vandalism, and property damage had a severe impact on how much councils could spend, that and government capping.
    it became an endless cycle.
    back to capital of culture, I thought cities won based off certain critirial and Liverpool one due to its architectural significance.
    kat

  16. #16
    Cadfael
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    The 08 celebrations will do one thing for Liverpool, and that's leave it like a ghost town when it's all over.

    People are going to think that 2008 is going to be amazing and a full year long party, when in reality, you could probably see more of our heritage opened up in the Heritage Weekend in September than all year round in Liverpool.

    On the plus side, the council are fitting new kerb stones to Edge Lane so that'll sort the traffic out....

  17. #17
    Senior Member iain's Avatar
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    I'd wondered the same thing for a couple of years now, especially since we seem to be losing our culture - nearly lost the Summer Pops and the Mathew St Festival in the same year, losing big pieces of history in the Planet lightship and the Manchester Dock, just to name a few.

    But yes, we should be glad they've re-paved Church St as part of the celebrations

  18. #18
    PhilipG
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    Capital of Culture is not about architecture.

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    Senior Member phredd's Avatar
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    I can see lots of 'high rise,(is that the right term) luxury flats' collecting dust or are there going to be an influx of millionares into the city?

    Why is it that all these developers have to build so high? do they all have to be contendors for Skyscraper City or is it to be bigger than the 'joanses' (sp)?


    How many of OUR liverpudlians can afford the prices that are being asked?

    Four questions !!! I think its bed-time
    Nite all
    Phredd
    In the days when we had nothing we had fun.
    If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.

  20. #20
    kat2
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    Philip, I think you will find it is inclusive of architecture, after all what makes a great city, the last capital of culture they talked about its architecture.
    With regards to the Phredd, and high rise, I suppose its about real estate when you think about it? simply put how can I maximise return on a given peice of land in an area of outstanding importance? if they built a low rise building on the same spot no one could afford it! ** so, by building high you maximise your return for a popular spot.
    this in turn has a knock on effect because, it will certainly be in the higher council tax band, which has to be good for the city, Liverpool like wirral has too many homes in the lower council tax band, which is good for the likes or you and I, but not good for a city council trying to maximise input revenue to support the citys needs?
    hope that makes some economic sense?
    kat

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    Senior Member phredd's Avatar
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    Kat
    I may be way out of my depth here but how in Gods name can you collect, and make money, from a flat that no bug*er can afford ?

    I will carry on living in my luxury VW Kamper Van

    My education was 'approved' but my maths stunk.

    Phredd (see I cannot spell Fred)
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    If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Default European Capital of Culture 2008

    The central theme of Liverpool’s bid was ‘The World in One City’ complemented by the 3 supporting themes of Create: a new expression of 21st century British culture; Participate: a culture defined through participation; and Regenerate: a city made whole through cultural expression.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Well I can burn something.
    Max you're a true Scouser - anarchic and surreal !!!

  24. #24
    kat2
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    phredd, just because the building is empty doesnt mean the council doesnt collect on it! ** the building is after all owned. Howie, yes, multicuturalism, *smile*, to do with bringing people of different back grounds together through a common medium, that medium, "city of liverpool"
    kat

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    Besides, the council get more than enough council tax of everyone else. But no, I think Kat's right - the owner still pays council tax even when the property is empty.

    But if you meant nobody is collecting rent or making money on the property... well, that's the concern of the owners/developers, not us.

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    Newbie Stevie M's Avatar
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    I may be a little late in contributing to this debate, but I only joined today!

    My view about 08 has always been that it is less about the Capital of Culture and more about the Culture of Capital. At the end of the day, it's about people who have money making more of it, and stuff the rest.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie M View Post
    I may be a little late in contributing to this debate, but I only joined today!

    My view about 08 has always been that it is less about the Capital of Culture and more about the Culture of Capital. At the end of the day, it's about people who have money making more of it, and stuff the rest.
    I agree

  28. #28
    Senior Member phredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie M View Post
    I may be a little late in contributing to this debate, but I only joined today!

    My view about 08 has always been that it is less about the Capital of Culture and more about the Culture of Capital. At the end of the day, it's about people who have money making more of it, and stuff the rest.


    What a nice way of telling the truth. Well said that man.
    Phredd
    In the days when we had nothing we had fun.
    If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie M View Post
    I may be a little late in contributing to this debate, but I only joined today!

    My view about 08 has always been that it is less about the Capital of Culture and more about the Culture of Capital. At the end of the day, it's about people who have money making more of it, and stuff the rest.
    yes, that's probably true

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