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Thread: Planning decision on Liverpool Waters will be delayed until after Unesco inspection

  1. #16
    Senior Member grekko's Avatar
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    Anyone on here ever heard of a place called Dresden?
    Well that same place told Unesco to take their WHS parchment and shove it and from what I've been able to discover it hasn't harmed Dresden. It isn't as if this bunch of self-congratulatory "wisemen " give anything other than a title to any site, but they take plenty in order to fund their worldwide jolly jaunts. Leeches as far as I'm concerned ,and the sooner they and The Liverpool Preservation Crust do a flit the better in my opinion.
    Lets try and get this City moving upwards again without beardoes and weirdoes telling us what's best for us.

  2. #17
    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    Smile Devout Buccaneers~Peel & Co.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    But nothing else is planned - no-one has an alternative on the table. What view will they spoil along the Central docks - won't they only enhance the view when coming down the river? These are nowhere near the 3 graces you know - even further along than Waterloo Apartments past ToyrUs and Costco - facing the Vulcan studios.

    As far as towers go, they are hardly USA height either
    I lived in the past,
    While ahead rang out,
    Land ahoy, make haste,
    I still had my doubts,
    Still strapped to the mast,
    On the sea's line I stared,
    at the spillage and wreckage,
    of devout buccaneers.
    Chas

  3. #18
    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Heck... the UNESCO description is from 2004.

    http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1150/m...ue_number=1331

    It (the UN fiefdoms) just shows a spot for future govt. spending savings...

  4. #19
    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    Thanks Az-gila,
    For steering me to the UNESCO pages. Too much info to comment on now.
    UNESCO and the government are just smoke clouds. The immediate threat being Peel and cronies. My family history stretches throughout the Everton area. From some vantage points you could see right over the Mersey. Cobbled streets, yes, but no speed bumps. Some housing was poorly built and others did suffer war damage, but a good deal of the housing could have been retained. Everton was used as an example in social engineering on a vast scale. Most high rises from that era have been demolished. Good riddance.But we're now left with a sprawling landscape of ?....I can only say I can see the rising city properties, Ged's right, like USA but on a small scale.
    I've no idea what to do on the Vauxhall waterfront, but there's an old saying, " Marry in haste, repent at leisure." I'm sure Forum members and other Merseysiders will have many.
    The proposed marriage between Peel and Merseyside has reached the point where the priest says " If anyone objects to this marriage proceeding, let him speak now, or forever be silent." I'm at the back of the chapel but I'm shouting as hard as I can "NO".
    Sometimes bearded but Always weirded,
    Chas

    ---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by grekko View Post
    Anyone on here ever heard of a place called Dresden?
    Well that same place told Unesco to take their WHS parchment and shove it and from what I've been able to discover it hasn't harmed Dresden. It isn't as if this bunch of self-congratulatory "wisemen " give anything other than a title to any site, but they take plenty in order to fund their worldwide jolly jaunts. Leeches as far as I'm concerned ,and the sooner they and The Liverpool Preservation Crust do a flit the better in my opinion.
    Lets try and get this City moving upwards again without beardoes and weirdoes telling us what's best for us.
    Hi Grekko,
    Dresden suffered more casualties than Hiroshima, but of course you knew that didn't you. 24 hour bombing by Britain and the USA. People dying for lack of oxygen. The city was a demolition site in 1945. It probably did merit an award for post war recovery.
    I've never gave any credibility to UNESCO so unfortunately I'll have to agree with you.
    No opinion on Liverpool Preservation Society, try googling it!
    Peas, love, Hari Tishoo,
    Chas

  5. #20
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Healthy debate/opinions - loving it!!!

    Some things I picked up on from your post Chas.

    You describe Peel as 'the immediate threat'. I would have to say that is a strange description for a private business who want to plough billions into a decimated area at their own cost, enhancing a low level innocuous skyline and bringing listed docks ans ancillary buildings back into use in the process - oh, and ofcourse creating much need employment - in the thousands.

    You mention how the view of Everton once was. Before your time and going off prints from the 1800s and before, we could say that the era you were growing up in spoilt what was there previously but that is progress. People inhabit and require abodes. The city lost a massive population and now it's being encouraged back. Build and they will come - Liverpool is not the barnpot it was in the 80s - we cannot live on protecting views alone. In any case, many I know think the view from Everton looking down towards the revitalised city centre and it's skyscrapers beyond is now better than ever but that is all subjective of course and hey guess what - you can still see the Welsh mountains and hills beyond so nothing is obscured.

    'Marry in haste' might have been relevant if the site they want to build on had only been cleared 6 months ago but it's been like that for decades so how long do we wait. How long do we deprive the people living in the area of somewhere of their own where they don't have to walk a mile South to see some life. Will the kids who live in Vauxhall today be saying to their kids in 20 years time 'There was once a grand proposal for this area son but the powers that be put the blocks on it - it's been like this now since I was a boy' How backward thinking that boy would think those powers that be were.

    Liverpool preservation trust is not even a trust but a one man blog from a guy living in the past. Now, living in the past is something I could be accused of with my site heavily loaded in that direction, my model of a tenement block demolished 25 years ago and my books recall past pleasures but let's face it. We've not got a Mr Barclay Walker, a Mr William Brown or a Mr James Picton nor the funds to build replicas of our fine civic buildings. Each era has its own architectural style and it so happens that the styles being presented now, whilst looking radical, are statements in theri own right and are no more bizarre than what was offered up when Oriel Chambers and the Liver Buildings were erected - and both castigated. Live in the past with our memories and by all means preserve our Georgian and Victorian heritage but we cannot be a living museum.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  6. #21
    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    Thanks Ged,
    For responding and reiterating your position. From past posts your feelings are very clear although a bit too optimistic ( I think).
    Apart from the short term construction jobs there's little merit in the scheme. Peel keeps it's cards well guarded from all reports I've seen. Even the construction clause may not guarantee Merseyside jobs. I'll have to resort to newspaper reports for this part of my post, I'm afraid. Peel have been described as "Empire builders" and Merseyside as "the last piece in the jigsaw". The Peel empire started in Manchester, "shrewdly" got the BBC to move to "Media City", and now wants to finish the "jigsaw".
    Joining the dots I see one outcome. Apartment blocks priced so high they are beyond the reach of most people. But most people aren't in the Peel loop, it's selling "rooms with a view" - second homes for the "elite". Wouldn't be surprised if the proposed development in Vauxhall becomes known as "Manc- hall"

    All "----" are meant to be sarcastic, No offense meant to you, Ged, you love this city, you speak with your heart and mind, and so you should.
    I actually like "futuristic" looking buildings in the right settings, Merseyside's landscape has been tore down and rebuilt so many times in my lifetime, this looks like another disaster waiting to happen. All my questions are aimed at the mysterious Peel organization.

    Best wishes,
    Chas
    Last edited by chasevans; 07-27-2011 at 01:40 PM. Reason: vauxhall

  7. #22
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Thanks Chas, it's good to see an alternative view to that of my own.

    'Optimistic' - not whilst indecision like we're experiencing exists, hopefully logic will win over.

    'Short term construction jobs' - take a look at how long the plan is for building - i'll be dead by the time it's finished never mind you

    Peel being guarded - they cannot be by law. The proposals and plans are public knowledge - isn't that what's causing the stink from the preservation trust cough cough.

    Jobs are jobs and residents are residents locals or not - they still have to spend into the local economy. I was not worried that the first dozen voices I heard down at the Pier Head last Sunday were Spanish or Geordie, I felt proud that they wanted to be here at all - they wouldn't have been in 1980.

    I don't see many Mancs moaning about Media City or Salford Quays, I remember the place I used to have to visit up there in the early 80s, it was derelict like our Albert Dock of the 70s - unrecognisable now, forward thinking. The Mancs are possibly loving our indecision.

    I wonder how many people who don't like the plans actually live in the area. It is not city centre so not a place one would have to visit involuntary - just a thought, a seed planted by a resident from the area I was talking to last night.
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  8. #23
    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    The urban engineering planners (those who know better than us......) pushed for, and built high rise blocks in the 60's.

    They were not a sucess and many (most?) have been pulled down and replaced by low residences.

    Will this "tower love" go the same way? What is really different now? Do the folks in the city centre really want to live in ultra-high density buildings?

    Perhaps some sort of middle ground would stand up better in the long term? Medium height buildings that don't dominate but may be "easier" to actually live in....

    Do the city centre residents really want that many people packed into a small area?

    Just some random thoughts...

  9. #24
    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    Cool Staying calmer than the Mersey on a July day

    I go by media reports (not always the best source, but it's all we have). The "Empire" &"jigsaw" part of my last post came from a regional newspaper emphasizing how shrewd the Peel main man has been in business dealings. When I hear shrewd I think of Arthur Daley.
    Jobs are jobs and residents are residents, local or not? Well, well, well........I disagree. I thought the whole point was improving Liverpool for the locals.
    There are feelings revealed here that speak volumes. But the lure of money hides at the heart of your argument. Not a good enough reason for me Ged, but business has always been business.
    I see it differently. Merseyside has a future without Peel. Regeneration from within - not capitulation to the Manchester carpetbaggers.I don't pretend to offer any solutions but I don't want to "look back in anger" on another planning blunder.
    About Mancs - I do recall ( Anthony) Tony Wilson's contempt for Liverpool when he repeated a joke about our city and the East Lancs Road. Manchester's a dark hole that will always stand in Liverpool's shadow. I don't envy Mancunians, their council handing over the reins to Peel who quietly ran away with the silverware.

    I admit to not living in the Vauxhall area. I live in Anfield, my heart lives in Everton and the Vauxhall Vaults was once a favourite watering hole, I could tell many tales of the Vauxhall area, I'll leave it at that.

    Cheers,
    Chas
    Last edited by chasevans; 07-27-2011 at 06:31 PM. Reason: look back

  10. #25
    Junior Member Harry's Avatar
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    No more towers!
    There's only about 4 for god's sake.
    No more red brick crap more like.

  11. #26
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    I know of a shop in the Met Quarter that caters for the wags and the like, it probably prices out most of the Liverpool lasses though or so you'd think to hear the pessimists. Not only do I know of plenty of local girls who have bought from there but it also employs our scouse girls. That's why when I hear these shops in the Met and L1 and these skyscrapers are not built for the likes of us, I squirm.

    This is why the clubs and the restaurants in the Albert Dock are always full, despite pricey VIP areas and private booths that you pay extra for. I honestly think some people don't give our free spending vibrant city life younger population the credit or kudos they deserve. They don't want to sit in old man corner pubs from 8 until 2. They party at home and don't even hit the town until midnight.

    So - let's leave the bomb sites and derelict land for another couple of decades then - even though there are no plan B's or C's. We have something unique in our waterfront which isn't just taken up by 600 yards from Mann Island to Chapel Street - let's exploit it like never before. These towers by the way, hardly towers in the global sense of the word, a few struggle to get past the height of the Liver.



    Regarding corpy built high rises from the 50s and 60s. People were put in them as their communities were broken up. It was forced upon them and most didn't want to be there. We have seen with the few blocks that are left and have been modernised how 21st century living in these is a different kettle of fish when it's volutary and you're actually forking out of your own pocket to live in them.

    It will not have escaped the attention of any developer, certainly not one so 'shrewd' as Peel (as we keep hearing they are) that this type of building must be desired or they wouldn't even entertain the idea of building them.

    A forumer elsewhere has posted up a low level travel lodge type building that is currently on our dockscape and looks totally out of place, the area being deserving of so much better. Low level buildings have their place but not on such desirable sites.

    Onward and forward.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    No more towers!
    There's only about 4 for god's sake.
    No more red brick crap more like.
    4 is too many.

    I can see more than 4 on my way in.

    Red brick, bring it on. Great looking. Much better than the Glass Leggo Monsters. The city was full of wonderful buildings before they decided to build this garbage. Look at what they have knocked down. Its criminal.

    They cant even fill these towers and they want more..Its laughable. Knock em down
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  13. #28
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    I would love to see a whole esplanade with replicas of the old customs house and a miniature version of William Brown street from Princes dock right up to Clarence dock, don't forget those splendid stone walls like what's around the Walker Art Gallery, it'd look like Greece when you're coming down the Mersey but guess what, we've no money to make it happen.

    Red brick, like the much maligned low level halifax building on the strand or the 2 storey throwaway low budget hotels on the south docks - nah, dead naff and not much thought gone into them
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

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  14. #29
    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    4 is too many.

    I can see more than 4 on my way in.

    Red brick, bring it on. Great looking. Much better than the Glass Leggo Monsters. The city was full of wonderful buildings before they decided to build this garbage. Look at what they have knocked down. Its criminal.

    They cant even fill these towers and they want more..Its laughable. Knock em down
    I agree. Criminal. The whole idea should be examined closely. Peel Holdings are known to get what they want. CRIMINAL hardly covers it. The council are already being investigated for "corporate hospitality" costs, let's wait a little longer. PEEL and associates are no doubt covering their tracks.

    Regarding Ged's posts. #26 & 28. "Lasses", are there no Judies in Liverpool anymore?
    I've no further comments, Ged appears to shift shape too often for me.

    Best wishes Spike,
    Chas

  15. #30

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    I love Ged though Chas. He is my buddy.

    Everyone to their own.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

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