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Thread: Planning decision on Liverpool Waters will be delayed until after Unesco inspection

  1. #91
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
    Go a bit further...

    Name the Liverpool developers in it's heyday that weren't driven by profit - there were a few, but perhaps some of them were offspring feeling a bit guilty about their family money made off the slave trade.

    Liverpool developed in the 1800's into the city it is now on the profit motive, why knock it....
    Exactly....like capitalism was new-fangled!!!! I've lived all over Liverpool,not just one, or two area's!

  2. #92
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    Talking dictated to on dictating and the speed of PEELing.......false profits......ignoring LFC...PEEL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Chas, you brought the Everton area into this thread on post 19.

    ---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

    Grosvenor's motivation was profit, so what if the means to the ends results in a better place to be. Every single developer that ever developed an area did it for profit, not for the love of the place. LFC likewise when if ever they get around to sticking to their end of the deal with Anfield. Peel took an ailing airport and have turned it round. Peel took acres of derelict land that nobody wanted and now it's the Trafford Centre. Are you up to speed on what they have actually achieved rather than the scaremongering of what they might do?

    ps. Writing in bold/capitals/different colours/larger text doesn't make your point any more valid.
    I did bring up the Everton area in post 19 to explain my position ( not coming from the proposed area). I then got back on thread about the proposed development. I can't give any credence to Lindylou's (or anyone other's) comments when they give no personal background info when making a point.
    I've had a chat with GeorgPorgie and he's made valid points about the demolition in his particular part of the Everton area. I still say there were parts that should've been saved.

    Back to the thread, I agree every company should make a profit, but Peel's accounts are bewildering( to me anyway). Peel promise much when they get a contract, usually the residents of Peel's greed suffer the consequences (see Salford posts). Peel are a law to themselves (I'm sure you know that), they connive to get their way by any means. I think the investigation into the recent air crash in Newlands Avenue, Peel Green, Salford, might prove interesting, or am I just scaremongering?
    ps read peel's small print first
    Cheers, Ged,
    Chas

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I've taken it for granted, ..(I know I probably shouldn't be presuming) .. that most people on the forum know I am from Anfield - - I have refered to my Anfield roots throughout lots of threads through the years on Yo.

    I was born here and have never moved - still living here

    I can walk to Everton area - 5 mins from me.

    ---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by grekko View Post
    Chas , I think Lindylou was referring to the Everton area of the early 19th century when she commented upon the miriad of terraced streets being a blot on the landscape, not of the area or community of the early and mid 20th century. I'm sure she recognises, as do most of us on here, that the Everton area was a vibrant family oriented community who unfortunately, in many respects, had the misfortune to inhabit properties which lacked the standard facilities for healthy living and had seen better days, which was a major contribution to their wholesale demolition/disappearance.
    As for her comments on the waterfront I doubt if her place of residence should preclude her from commenting on her memories or preference of waterfront view.
    Thanks Grekko, that's what I was meaning .. I am not casting any aspersions on the community of Everton ( and also I think you are right in saying that these vibrant old communities will never be repeated).
    I am just saying that the terraced streets would have been looked upon as a blot on the landscape by the people who knew it as a rural area. I bet they didn't relish the sight of their rural idyll being built upon the way it was. According to history books I have read, Everton was a pastoral setting where the gentry strolled the country lanes and grassy slopes to take in the sea air and enjoy the views. Some decades on, and those people from that era would not have recognised the district of Everton. My point is that the area has now reverted to it's original grassy state - just a thought that had occurred to me and probably irrelevant to the thread ..

    ---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chasevans View Post
    My family history stretches throughout the Everton area. From some vantage points you could see right over the Mersey. Cobbled streets, yes, but no speed bumps. Some housing was poorly built and others did suffer war damage, but a good deal of the housing could have been retained. Everton was used as an example in social engineering on a vast scale. Most high rises from that era have been demolished. Good riddance.But we're now left with a sprawling landscape of ?...
    (above quote) this was the post that prompted my thoughts - that things have to change, and they do change, and sometimes not to everyones' liking . .

    sorry if I rambled a bit.

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    Senior Member grekko's Avatar
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    Chas , I've read and re-read your post with regard to Peel's planning refusal appeal and warning to Merseysiders but I am still left wondering what is it there for? Is it to allow us to read a story from the Salford Star or is it to point out how Govenment legislation and regulation have been altered over approx the last 10 years, and how one specific company are applying those rules and regulations as defined in the acts. Or is it to point out that Salford Council's Development Plan (Core Strategy)has outlined it's proposals for 2010-2030, or maybe even the shambolic Salford Council planning panel meeting which couldn't decide what it's plans were? Whatever it is the post is warning Merseysiders to watch out for , could you highlight them for me please,as I cannot find it/them .
    Thank you.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grekko View Post

    I do not go along with the siting of a lot of Skyscrapers etc of Peel's plans but, surely the improvement of that area has been too long coming, how much longer might it take to redevelop the site(s) if the plans are knocked back? We will probably never again build communities such as you and I remember but that shouldn't restrict peoples opportunities to try and build newer and hopefully vibrant living spaces.
    Yes, I agree. Who will redevelop the area then if plans are dropped ?
    We are very much looking forward to this stretch of land to be brought into line and match up with the rest of the fantastic improvements that have already been realised.
    It will be a sin if it is left to rot.

    ---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chasevans View Post
    Some housing was poorly built and others did suffer war damage, but a good deal of the housing could have been retained.
    Of course, I agree with you that some of the buildings in Everton could have, and should have been saved.

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    Forget where we posters are from, what's that got to do with it. Where we are not currently from is the area that can be redeveloped and I know for a fact that the people from Vauxhall want it and in fact have campaigned for the likes of the Central docks redevelopment and Project Jennifer on Greaty. It's like someone in Woolton saying why is someone wanting to redevelop Lodge Lane, let them stew. Rather ingenious isn't it?
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    Diane Louise Diane Louise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post

    I am just saying that the terraced streets would have been looked upon as a blot on the landscape by the people who knew it as a rural area. I bet they didn't relish the sight of their rural idyll being built upon the way it was. According to history books I have read, Everton was a pastoral setting where the gentry strolled the country lanes and grassy slopes to take in the sea air and enjoy the views. Some decades on, and those people from that era would not have recognised the district of Everton. My point is that the area has now reverted to it's original grassy state - just a thought that had occurred to me and probably irrelevant to the thread .. [COLOR="Silver"]
    I agree Lindy, to many the terraced streets were a blot on the landscape but many people wanted their areas to stay the same. I am sure that for many people they have welcomed progress and re-development. To see Everton with grassy slopes and enjoy the nice views must be wonderful.

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    I enjoyed it as it was !

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty1 View Post
    I enjoyed it as it was !

    I know Marty. Lots of nostalgic memories for all of us in the districts where we lived.

    I was just making an observation how areas can totally change, and often times not to everyone's liking.
    The same can be said for my own area of Anfield.
    People often don't like change, but sometimes we do need to move on and progress.

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    People often don't like change, but sometimes we do need to move on and progress.
    I'm at bit like that, I don't like change. I sometimes wonder what progress we have made over the years and quite often think we haven't made any ! I know, I'm sad !

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    Diane Louise Diane Louise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty1 View Post
    I'm at bit like that, I don't like change. I sometimes wonder what progress we have made over the years and quite often think we haven't made any ! I know, I'm sad !
    I also don't like change but progress has been made, you no longer have a tin bath!

  12. #102
    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diane Louise View Post
    I also don't like change but progress has been made, you no longer have a tin bath!
    ...or walk outside to take a ***.....

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    I also don't like change but progress has been made, you no longer have a tin bath!


    I will no longer have a bath soon !

  14. #104
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    We all look back and think the terraced streets were great as were the tennies and they were, they were of their time. Central docks though are acres of unused, derelict and dilapidated land once used for something that will never return. Nothing will be demolished for what is planned. What is the problem?
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    Diane Louise Diane Louise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty1 View Post
    I will no longer have a bath soon !
    Are you throwing the bath out! Anyway I would rather have a shower!

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    Senior Member Marty1's Avatar
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    Yes, I'm getting it skipped and putting in a wet room !

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    Senior Member John Doh's Avatar
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    All this talk of baths!

    Back on topic: aren't we in danger of throwing out the baby with the bath water?

    I'm serious! Aren't we in danger of repeating the mistakes of the '60s? It seems to me there are too many here who once again believe that all the dereliction and deprivation can be swept away simply by bringing in the bulldozers! We should have learned by now! Yes, Peel look like being our only chance of achieving that 'progress' that some of us so fervently crave, but that doesn't mean we have to sign up to their rather questionable agenda without question...

  18. #108
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    Has anyone yet put forward what this questionable agenda is?

    It's not without question at all though is it - that's why the planning process allows for objection which is what has happened with the over 50s brigade aka the preservation trust (one arl bloke)

    Rather than being in danger of throwing out the bathwater, we are in danger of missing a trick.
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  19. #109
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    I don't understand why "Peel" should be scrutinesed any more,than anyone else? You've got to keep an eye on any developer ("Maghull developments" for example)for any tricks they might try to pull! Fair enough,sometimes they do get away with it,(I wonder why???) but generally,the normal planning process works,and this has been demonstrated to work well enough,in this thread!

  20. #110
    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    Thumbs up More questions than answers about Peel, I'm afraid

    Thanks Lindylou,
    I'm sorry if I've missed your posting saying you were from Anfield. I live on the Pinehurst estate and where our house stands was countryside until the late 1920's. LCC sold the estate to a housing association and there has been a sense of community in recent years. If this estate were to be demolished would your views be the same as your "Everton area" views?
    Ged, why bring up LFC's development plans again? If you really want to know what I think, they're wrong, Stanley Park should have never been a part of the Red's expansion planning.
    Now we've got that out of the way, could you give me the benefit of knowing your area, Ged?

    Back to thread

    Planning decision on Liverpool Waters will be delayed until after Unesco inspection


    Who bankrolled the recent LCC visit to Shanghai?

    Will
    Peel go bankrupt if the deal is off (mentioned by Peel at local inquiry)? ....If so, how solid are their companies?

    If
    Peel deal goes through who will pay for the infrastructure costs (new access roads, road widening, demolition of property etc.)? Other areas could well be affected by the proposal, Peel are noted for their manipulation of councils.
    http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/....aspx?ID=83903

    As previously mentioned, are Peel involved in Salford light air crash inquiry? Are their planning/building practices under scrutiny?

    Thanks to all for keeping this thread active,
    ps, apologies to anyone offended by bold type
    Chas
    another arl bloke

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I know the Pinehurst estate like the back of my hand. I went to Pinehurst infants school (now demolished) and Pinehurst jnrs. I went on to Stanley park Comp - now also demolished.

    My grandmother (born in 1905) remembered the days before the estate was built, and also when Clubmoor - down Townsend and Maiden Lane, Larkhill way, was 'countryfied' as she put it. She remembered fields and the brook running alongside Maiden lane and Richard Kelly.
    Apparently there were ponds around where the Pinehurst estate and St Columbas church is.

    Townsend lane - once a thriving shopping road is now a disgrace - derelict properties, waste land and flytipping on some of the street corners, general scruffiness and lots of empty boarded up houses in the side streets.
    It's like the forgotten land.
    There was a time when Anfield was a desirable area to live, but now it is neglected and forgotten - always looked over and ignored while other areas get their regeneration. I wonder if our turn will ever come ?

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    Senior Member chasevans's Avatar
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    I have to agree with a lot you say, Lindylou, particularly the empty shops on Townsend Lane. I first noticed the rundown starting in the Breck Road area in the late 70's but it's spread. I think lots of property owners were waiting for LCC's plans to widen the Breck Road/ Townsend Lane for access, could be they're still waiting. But that's just me, always looking for hidden agedas.
    Pinehurst estate looks fairly good I'm told. We live in a Boswell house that's been tarted up on the outside, mutton dressed as lamb. We voted for the demolition and rebuild of the houses, but somehow the vote went the other way. The main thing is our neighbors are friendly, kids are generally polite and community spirit is good. Pinehurst infants was a lovely building, it is a shame it had to go! There are plans to make it's site a "play area" for other neighboring communities(?).
    I take it you no longer live in Anfield, Lindylou?
    Regards,
    Chas

  23. #113
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    The Shanghai Expo visit has brought in millions of pounds worth of orders and investment. Do you ever listen to Frank McKenna on Downtown Liverpool or the Liverpool money programme on City talk on Sunday mornings which I catch on my way to 5-a-side, I doubt it or ridiculous questions wouldn't be asked. Imagine being the only English city invited to sell yourself and then saying, nah we won't bother. Such as short sighted attitude.

    Where have I brought lfc into it again - can't see it in my last 2 posts before you mentioned it?

    Now back to the thread please
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    Senior Member John Doh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteve55 View Post
    I don't understand why "Peel" should be scrutinised any more than anyone else? You've got to keep an eye on any developer ("Maghull developments" for example)for any tricks they might try to pull! Fair enough,sometimes they do get away with it,(I wonder why???) but generally,the normal planning process works,and this has been demonstrated to work well enough,in this thread!
    They should be scrutinised especially carefully, because [1] they now own the whole of the Waterfront, all the way up that famous airport of theirs and [2] because they've got form for 'pulling tricks' as Chas and others have pointed out here and elsewhere. I would make the analogy with keeping an especially watchful eye on Murdoch in the media field: it is almost certainly true that Mirror Group newspapers can't say that they have never hacked phones, but they're not running an outfit that's got ambitions to take over all Western TV broadcasting too! Peel now has the BBC in hock too as the landlords of Media City - NOT in my view a very healthy situation!

    ---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    The Shanghai Expo visit has brought in millions of pounds worth of orders and investment. Do you ever listen to Frank McKenna on Downtown Liverpool or the Liverpool money programme on City talk on Sunday mornings which I catch on my way to 5-a-side, I doubt it or ridiculous questions wouldn't be asked. Imagine being the only English city invited to sell yourself and then saying, nah we won't bother. Such as short sighted attitude.

    Where have I brought lfc into it again - can't see it in my last 2 posts before you mentioned it?

    Now back to the thread please

    I agree with regard to the Shanghai Expo - that can only be good for the whole city, not just the land grabbers and property wheelers and dealers.

    On the Peel issue, however, I had assumed that ever since mixing with all the wheelers and dealers who hang around such enterprises as the new Museum, your head must have been turned by the experience... But no, it's just a matter of retuning your radio, it seems! Listening to City Talk is hardly likely to provide you with an objective, unvarnished account of what's going on - on the few occasions when I've tuned in I've been quite shocked to hear various so-called 'money experts' being blatantly encouraged to expound right wing economic analyses by their resident shock jocks! Anyway, you don't have to stray into the snares of Mammon... I know Roger Phillips is on holiday, but Paul Rowley is doing a grand job on Radio Merseyside in his absence!

  25. #115
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    Believe me, realising that a private developer wants to invest their money into desolate wasteland is good is a no brainer doesn't come from radio city, nor hanging around the museum. I do however prefer to listen to people in the know rather than a few grumpy old men who if left to run this city would rather see desolate wasteland remain, no L1, no JLA, no Cammell Lairds, no post panamax facilities etc etc....

    Tell me why there's no thread regarding Maghull Developments. Remember the Josephine Butler house, Jamaica Hotel, Sir Thomas st building???

    Tell me why there's no thread on how lfc continue to be given new deadlines regarding their proposed redevelopment of the Anfield area which is leaving residents in limbo which was part of the deal in them securing Victorian public parkland???

    I know all about Peel's past, which as stated above, has included some good things for the city but i've no reason to believe that if their Liverpool Waters plans weren't continually knocked back, we may have seen something commenced on the site by now.

    Any land bought by Peel is available to anyone you know, not just them. Why don't you buy some of it???
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    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    "Tell me why there's no thread regarding Maghull Developments. Remember the Josephine Butler house, Jamaica Hotel, Sir Thomas st building???"

    "Tell me why there's no thread on how lfc continue to be given new deadlines regarding their proposed redevelopment of the Anfield area which is leaving residents in limbo which was part of the deal in them securing Victorian public parkland???"

    Egsakerly.....and it doesn't matter if Peel own the whole city....plannining laws still apply,and any proposals are open to the usual scrutiny,by interested parties!!

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Tell me why there's no thread regarding Maghull Developments. Remember the Josephine Butler house,
    Here's a reminder of what Maghull Developments did to JBH:


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    .....and now it's a luvly car park! Who was scrutinising that???

    Just read your post on Josephine Butler,Howie...interesting stuff,but now sadly forgotten?
    Last edited by wsteve55; 08-29-2011 at 01:43 AM. Reason: addition

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    Wink Ged's rattles of LFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    The Shanghai Expo visit has brought in millions of pounds worth of orders and investment. Do you ever listen to Frank McKenna on Downtown Liverpool or the Liverpool money programme on City talk on Sunday mornings which I catch on my way to 5-a-side, I doubt it or ridiculous questions wouldn't be asked. Imagine being the only English city invited to sell yourself and then saying, nah we won't bother. Such as short sighted attitude.

    Where have I brought lfc into it again - can't see it in my last 2 posts before you mentioned it?


    ADVERTISING




    Now back to the thread please
    Ged, I'll paste post #87 and show your lfc reference in bold letters. I recall the same thing happening in another of your posts (76). LFC mentioned again for some reason, when I told you I'd be happy to give my opinion in the correct thread, never mind though. I feel I've explained myself on your Everton area question.

    Ged's post# 87

    Chas, you brought the Everton area into this thread on post 19.

    ---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

    Grosvenor's motivation was profit, so what if the means to the ends results in a better place to be. Every single developer that ever developed an area did it for profit, not for the love of the place. LFC likewise when if ever they get around to sticking to their end of the deal with Anfield. Peel took an ailing airport and have turned it round. Peel took acres of derelict land that nobody wanted and now it's the Trafford Centre. Are you up to speed on what they have actually achieved rather than the scaremongering of what they might do?

    ps. Writing in bold/capitals/different colours/larger text doesn't make your point any more valid.
    ps apologies for any offense caused by bold writing and for me taking time out to reply, the thread is still:-
    Planning decision on Liverpool Waters will be delayed until after Unesco inspection

    Cheers,
    Chas
    Last edited by chasevans; 08-29-2011 at 04:31 PM. Reason: 76

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