115 post,that still classes you as a newbie,maybe you should get to know me first.But your pictures lovely and sweet ,though you do seem a bit young to be writing so cynically.
I actually like the new buildings around the pierhead - the black glass of Mann Island excluded obviously, nice enough but so very very wrongly located and a crazy idea all told - and with the new revamp and exposed canal link I really think the area is beginning to look and act more of a liverpool to look forward to for locals and tourists alike.
I know this might touch a nerve, but I can't think that sentimentality can be given too much credence in this age, which is indeed sad, and I accept that progress means new, not old architecture. While I do think more thought needs to be given when deciding how to treat palces such as Liverpool, I cant say that it should stay as it is and fall behind compared to other up and coming cities of the UK, although it should be a priority to protect the skyline as that is such a precious commodity. As a part of that skyline I do believe the museum does play its part to enhance the views.
Maybe one more Museum could be argued as overstepping the mark, especially cost, but then, how many other places have a NEW museum, dedicated solely to themselves, and their own history? That in itself is something to be envied. Liverpool has so many options open to it, I just hope that the people with the power to make those decisions can also be sympathetic when deciding what those options are.
This is Just my opinion, I not here to argue the finer points. That wouldnt be my place. But I like it
George, I agree the local attendance will fall away - then will return as the new galleries open and exhibits are eventually rotated but let's not forget that we are a University city and a tourist attraction in any case so there will always be a steady throughput.
Add to that, the building is of architectural merit in itself, the shape, sweeping staircase, the views from the massive picture windows will always incite those with a flare for finesse. Then the location of it being between the 3 graces and the Albert dock, the shop in there, the cafe, the new outside plaza will ensure a further footfall of passing trade.
I would love this building whether my model was in there or not, it was also in the World Museum, the St. Georges Hall, the echo atrium, I just love the buildings and sorry if that's a bad trait, I don't have a phobia or hatred of anything new - that would be unhealthy to stagnate.
Join the 150,000 - it'll be a quarter of a million before the Mathew st festival is over come the end of the month.
Ok here's my take on it.....
We have all seen the old housing photographs of the 17th and 18th century,housing that was in short supply and terrible living conditions.
At these times money was being ploughed into the city center in new buildings being erected at great expense,meantime no money was being ploughed into the housing conditions on the outskirts of the town center.....
There's a pattern emerging here similair to those times back then and is happening now ie housing shortage run down estates ect,ect...I feel they're wasting far too much money ploughing it into the city rather than give joe public what they need.
I don't like the look of the building and what it has done to the Graces, but when I am in the 'Pool in October I will look forward to touring the building. It looks to be a decent museum, just wrongly located IMHO -- though I suppose from the tourists' perspective it's a good location despite my griping.
George. L1, Wirral Waters, New Museum - can you provide figures for what the council has paid towards these at the expense of the ordinary people of Liverpool.
Here though is what the council have done. Fought a three year long legal battle over Edge Lane which cost millions as well as the actually demoltion of houses and road widening works - all for the betterment of the car - rather like the destruction of Scotland Road for a tunnel and hundreds of tenement flats for an 8 lane inner ring road called Byrom Street. I agree with your angst of how money is not better spent but I just think you're targetting the wrong people and apportioning it to the wrong buildings.
Chris. Whilst I agree that we all have our own opinions on whether the shape, or height or colour or the finish of a cladding on a building is all down to personal taste, I wonder where this misplaced perception of 'what it has done to the 3 graces' comes about. Can someone please explain to me what it has in fact done to the 3 graces. Perhaps brought more people down to come and see them judging by the attendances at the museum?
Ged I've said me piece and on an ending note someone paid and the council were involved.....
The covenant dates back to 1963
It insisted nothing was built within 40ft of the river and any new buildings would not be taller than 40ft.
The new Museum of Liverpool breaks both parts of the covenant.
I am surprised you would ask that. The new buildings are a blot on the landscape, they block the view, they detract from the elegance of the Three Graces. I also have my doubts about the new canal, which seems to be an odd development. I think someone likened a couple of the buildings to shoe boxes... I'd agree... undistinguished and strange looking -- disposable architecture. The Museum of Liverpool building likewise, a piece of architecture that could be found in any modern city but better, I suppose, than the infernal Cloud which was proposed to be foisted on the city as a Fourth Grace. So it could be worse!
All the best
All opinion Chris - all opinion.
What do people think of the Crown Plaza. Does the fact it's bland get it off the hook. Should we build bland? - are we are bland stagnating city? I'd say the Crown Plaza is undistinguished - an any city building but show me another like the unique X shape Museum by award winning designers and architects. My view of the Liver looking South from certain angles is blocked by the Crown Plaza - bah.
---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------
George. Do you have a link to that covenant? How did it get past the might of UNESCO and their beloved WHS certification. All a bit of a mystery this as it's only on the site of a building that was already there - the MOLL.
The Crown Plaza is over to the side and less "in the face" than the stuff that has been built since. You can't say that the Crown Plaza takes anything at all away from the Liver Building... it's a lower building at a distance north of that First Grace.
Chris. There is a street between the Liver and the Crown Plaza to the North of the 3 Graces. There is a street between the Port of Liverpool building and the new Museum to the south of the 3 graces. My view if standing behind the Crown Plaza would be no more or less blocked of the 3 graces than if I stood behind the Museum and complained of the same.
George, this is about the Port of Liverpool building convenant that it blocks THEIR view of the red dock offices - not that it blocks your view of the 3 graces.
''NML’s new X-wing museum blocks sight of former dock offices from the Port of Liverpool Building.''
No its not,Ged......
The building is 85ft high at its highest point and is in the boundry of the distance from the river hence why the NML had to pay 750k.It insisted nothing was built within 40ft of the river and any new buildings would not be taller than 40ft.
Yes it is George, read the link you gave me. The covenant was produced by the MDHB.
The ferry terminal building has also been built within the same distance from the river since then.
What is your point exactly?
The definiton of the convenant is that any building that blocks any of the three graces ie the view seen from all angles has broken the convenant.
Looking at the port from coming up river from the north the building blocks two of the graces.
Wrong again George.
Here is an extract from the link YOU gave which I know all about right from the planning stage.
''The covenant dates back to 1963 when the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board – which then owned Mann Island and the Port of Liverpool Building - sold the land the museum now stands on to Liverpool Corporation.
It kept hold of the imposing port headquarters but wanted to protect its view of the Pilotage Office at the entrance to Canning Half Tide Dock.''
So the MDHB wanted to protect the view from their windows towards the pilotage office which is the red brick building on the photo in the link that YOU gave - take a look yourself if you don't believe.
You have said above in your post 47 that ''Looking at the port from coming up river from the NORTH' - do you mean the SOUTH because entering the River at the mouth and coming down past Bootle, the Museum is further South than the 3 Graces so blocks nothing.
The debate on these threads has always been the 'perceived' blocking of the view of the 3 Graces for US because of the Museum but this covenant is nothing to do with that and concerns the MDHB not being able to see their pilotage red brick building from their windows shown in the pic on the link that YOU gave here.
In the meantime, here's a pic of what Liverpool would still look like if you were on the planning committee as nothing new would ever get built - arf.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This thread is beginning to Remind me of the old Gus Elen song:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1GmDA8FU9w
"As I sat there in our sh*tehouse
I could see new brighton lighthouse
if it wasn't for the 'ouses inbetween"
Ged,Ged...Ged the covenant is set out for the whole of the water front by the pierhead stop picking at straws and accept that the building has broken the convenant and in reality shouldn't be there but someone has taken a backhander in getting it in the place it is.
Have you got a stake in this?
Have you got a stake in Liverpool remaining like in that pic above?
---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------
Brilliant grekko and so relevant to those that can't see that if I stood on Picton Road, my view to St Goerges Hall would be obstructed, so what would I do, why, catch the bus to Lime st of course so I wonder why all these people (about 9 of them) won't just walk around to the front of the 3 graces instead of trying to see them from quirky impossible angles just to be pedantic.
I can't debate with someone who puts up a link then makes things up that aren't in it. The fine was paid for breaking the covenant that ruled the MDHB couldn't see their little red pilot building from their windows - that was what was broken and sorted. Now it's there and if you reckon you've paid for it - then enjoy it. 6000 objects on view that otherwise wouldn't be.
This museum would have been more fitting in the place of St Johns precinct ie knock the precinct down and replace with museum it would then have fitted in with the surroundings plus it would mean all other empty shops filled by the proprieters of the x precinct shops.
Apart from not being able to understand what you've written, wouldn't my view of the 3 graces be obscured by it if I were standing on Elliot street and looking towards the River?
Plus, do you think doing all that would have cost any less - or more perchance?
Yo is crammed with them in past threads and even the resident LRO anorak has a site full of em.Where?
From the 17th and 18th Century - I wish
Are you any happier today George?
How the house - the seagulls, the spiders, Corrie - the medication
You read it wrong yer wazzocks....Most of the houses where built before the 19th century and photies were taken in the 19th century.
The house I just left was built in 1890...you know where to stick those drumsticks,Gedro...just make sure you push em harder.