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Thread: Queen Mary and other boats

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    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    Default Queen Mary and other boats

    I have a special interest about the II World War. I am a apasionate of the Spitfire and Queen Mary. I was thinking that Queen Mary was building here, in Pool. I have read now that this boat was building in Scotland. Maybe I was confused, coz Cunard Steam Ship Co. was a Pool's company but maybe, the boat was not building here. If anyone know about it to help me... Thanx!!


    Queen Mary



    RMS Queen Mary is an ocean liner that sailed the North Atlantic Ocean from 1936 to 1967 for Cunard Line (then Cunard White Star Line). Built by John Brown and Company, Clydebank, Scotland, she was designed to be the first of Cunard's planned two-ship weekly express service from Southampton to Cherbourg to New York, in answer to the mainland European superliners of the late twenties and early thirties. Queen Mary and her slightly larger and younger running mate RMS Queen Elizabeth commenced this two-ship service after their release from World War II troop transport duties and continued it for two decades until Queen Mary's retirement in 1967. The ship is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, and is permanently berthed in Long Beach, California serving as a museum ship and hotel. The Queen Mary celebrated the 70th anniversary of her launch in both Clydebank with Clydebank Restoration Trust and in Long Beach during 2004, and the 70th anniversary of her maiden voyage in 2006.

    Naming and construction


    With Germany launching their Bremen and Europa into service, the British did not want to be left out in this ship building race. White Star Line started construction of their 60,000 ton Oceanic and Cunard decided to construct their 75,000 ton ship which was not yet named.

    The ship was named after Queen Mary, the consort of King George V. Until her launch she was known simply as Cunard hull No. 534, since the name she was to be given was kept a closely guarded secret. Legend has it that Cunard intended to name the ship "Victoria", in keeping with company tradition of giving its ships names ending in "ia". However, when company representatives asked the King's permission to name the ocean liner after Britain's "greatest queen", he said his wife, Queen Mary, would be delighted. And so, the legend goes, the delegation had of course no other choice but to report that No. 534 would be called RMS Queen Mary. However, this story was denied by company officials, and is probably apocryphal, since traditionally the names of sovereigns have only been used for capital ships of the Royal Navy. It is more likely that the name Queen Mary was decided on as a compromise between Cunard and the White Star Line, with which Cunard had recently merged, who had a tradition of using names ending in "ic".

    Construction began in December 1930 on the River Clyde by the John Brown & Company Shipbuilding and Engineering shipyard at Clydebank Scotland but was halted in December 1931 due to the Great Depression. Cunard applied to the British Government for a loan to complete 534. The loan was granted, with enough money to complete the Queen Mary as well as enough to build a running mate, hull No. 552 which became the Queen Elizabeth. One condition of the loan was that Cunard merge with the financially ailing White Star Line, which was Cunard's chief British rival at the time. Both lines agreed and the merger was completed in April 1934. Work on the Queen Mary resumed immediately and she was launched on 26 September 1934. Because the ship was now partially a White Star liner, it incorporated features found on White Star ships such the foward well deck, and a raised white forecastle deck.

    History (1934-1939)

    There was already a Clyde turbine steamer named Queen Mary, so Cunard White Star reached agreement with the owners that the existing steamer would be renamed TS Queen Mary II, and in 1934 the new liner was launched by Queen Mary as RMS Queen Mary.

    The first incident in what was to be an eventful career occurred just after the naming ceremony. On her way down the slipway, the Queen Mary began to run out of control. She hit the water far too fast and nearly flew straight across the Clyde into the opposite bank. It appears that only pure luck allowed her drag chains to bring her to a stop before she ran aground.

    When she sailed on her maiden voyage from Southampton England on 27 May 1936 the Queen Mary measured 80,774 gross tonnes.[1] Her rival, Normandie, which originally grossed 79,280 tonnes had been modified the preceding winter to increase her size to 83,243 gross tonnes, and therefore kept the title of the largest ocean liner.[2]

    The Queen Mary's design was criticized for being too traditional, especially when the Normadie's hull was revolutionary with a clipper-shaped, streamlined bow. Except for her spoon-shaped cruiser stern, she seemed to be simply a bulkier version of her Cunard and White Star predecessors from the pre-World War I era, and a typical Clyde-built ship. Her interior design, while mostly Art Deco, still seemed restrained and conservative when compared to the ultramodern French liner. However, the Queen Mary proved to be a more popular vessel than its largest rival, in terms of passengers carried.

    Queen Mary further proved to be the faster ship. In August 1936, she captured the Blue Riband in both directions from Normandie, with average speeds of 30.14 knots (55.82 km/h) westbound and 30.63 knots eastbound. Normandie reclaimed the honours in 1937, but in 1938 Queen Mary took back the Blue Riband in both directions with average speeds of 30.99 knots (57.39 km/h) westbound and 31.69 knots eastbound, records which stood until it was lost to the SS United States in 1952.


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    More info:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Queen_Mary
    Long Beach Today:
    http://www.queenmary.com/

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    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    I know that Titanic was building in Belfast, Ireland. Anyone could tell to me the connection with Liverpool? Was because were a lot of passangers from this city?
    And If anyone is habitual to read about it, I think that not... just tell me.
    Thanx again!!!



    Titanic


    RMS Titanic was a British Olympic class passenger liner that became famous for her collision with an iceberg on 14 April 1912 and dramatic sinking on 15 April 1912. The second of a trio of superliners, Titanic and her sisters were designed to provide a three-ship weekly express service and dominate the transatlantic travel business for the White Star Line.

    More:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic
    http://www.titanichistoricalsociety.org/

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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Hi Marie, Cunard's headquarters were in Liverpool till the 1960s as many of its routes went from Liverpool to USA and Canada, but the ships were built elsewhere.

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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie View Post
    I know that Titanic was building in Belfast, Ireland. Anyone could tell to me the connection with Liverpool? Was because were a lot of passangers from this city?
    And If anyone is habitual to read about it, I think that not... just tell me.
    Thanx again!!!



    Titanic


    RMS Titanic was a British Olympic class passenger liner that became famous for her collision with an iceberg on 14 April 1912 and dramatic sinking on 15 April 1912. The second of a trio of superliners, Titanic and her sisters were designed to provide a three-ship weekly express service and dominate the transatlantic travel business for the White Star Line.

    More:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic
    http://www.titanichistoricalsociety.org/
    The White Star Line were based in Liverpool, in Albion House which si still standing today. Many of the crew on the Titanic were from Liverpool. There is more information at the link below

    http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/item/1162/

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    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    Hi Marie, Cunard's headquarters were in Liverpool till the 1960s as many of its routes went from Liverpool to USA and Canada, but the ships were built elsewhere.
    Thanx for replay. I was reading now about White Star Line Company and say it:

    The original company bearing the name White Star Line was founded in Liverpool, England by John Pilkington and Henry Threlfall Wilson, and focused on the Australian trade, which had increased following the discovery of gold there. The fleet initially consisted of chartered sailing ships, the Blue Jacket (later renamed White Star), the Red Jacket, the Ellen and the Iowa but it acquired its first steamship in 1863 with the Royal Standard. One notable ship was Tayleur, whose fate would haunt the company

    (...) and then, Cunard acquired this company. I was thinking that Pool have special connections with these boats. Thanx Steh!!

    And...

    Anyone or u know, where is now this boat "SS Naronic"? Coz the original company saids some years ago, they like to put this boat in a big maritime museum in Belfast.
    SS Naronic was a steamship built by Harland and Wolff in Belfast for the White Star Line. The ship was lost at sea after leaving Liverpool on February 11, 1893 bound for New York, with the loss of all 74 people on board. The ship's fate is a mystery that remains unsolved to this day.

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    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    The White Star Line were based in Liverpool, in Albion House which si still standing today. Many of the crew on the Titanic were from Liverpool. There is more information at the link below

    http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/item/1162/
    Thanx for the exact link!! I am reading now, that the musician were from Pool firm C.W.and F.N. Black . I was reading that the musician were playing all the time for to try to calm the people and they are not survive... and are diverses theories about their last song.

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    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    If someone is interested:

    Magical History Tour

    Major exhibition opening soon at the Maritime Museum
    28 July 2007 to 27 September 2009
    Celebrating 800 years of Liverpool's history

    Info:
    http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...ical/index.asp

  8. #8
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie View Post
    Thanx for the exact link!! I am reading now, that the musician were from Pool firm C.W.and F.N. Black . I was reading that the musician were playing all the time for to try to calm the people and they are not survive... and are diverses theories about their last song.
    That bit about the costume hirers wanting money from the dead mens relatives to replace lost clothing is unbelievable.

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    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    That bit about the costume hirers wanting money from the dead mens relatives to replace lost clothing is unbelievable.
    Oh!! Well, I do not know in England, but in my land there was a rumor about The Titanic. Rumors of which it was not an accident. The rumors were based, in that there were a great number of important persons in the ship, and there were interests to sink it. The only reality, it is that hundreds of persons lost the life, and some others, they had to live with the recollection of this catastrophe...

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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie View Post
    Oh!! Well, I do not know in England, but in my land there was a rumor about The Titanic. Rumors of which it was not an accident. The rumors were based, in that there were a great number of important persons in the ship, and there were interests to sink it. The only reality, it is that hundreds of persons lost the life, and some others, they had to live with the recollection of this catastrophe...
    I havent heard of that, but there is a theory that the ship that sank was not the Titanic but the Olympic, which was damaged in an accident a few years earlier and the White star Line wanted to claim insurance money.

    http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titan...y_theory.shtml

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    I havent heard of that, but there is a theory that the ship that sank was not the Titanic but the Olympic, which was damaged in an accident a few years earlier and the White star Line wanted to claim insurance money.

    http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titan...y_theory.shtml
    I was born in the country of the rumors, so, I prefer to think that the accident was a fruit of fatal circumstances...

    If the Titanic had hit of prow to the Iceberg, one might have supported afloat, with only two flooded compartments, which might have allowed him(her) to continue sailing, even... If this night there had been wind, or simply if the vigías had had prismatic, it is possible that the iceberg had been sighted before avoiding the catastrophe...

    Always I have preferred thinking that they were bad chances. Sometimes I think, that if the English knew, which the press and television Spanish, inspect and affirm, about Lady Di death, they would prohibit the entry to this country us...

    Thanx a million for the information!!

  12. #12
    Steven
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    How Sad this is for an ex officer from the Royal navy to read !'


    These magnificent vessels were Not Boats!

    They were ships.

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    Agree with Steven.

    You can put a Boat on a Ship but you can not put a Ship on a Boat.
    That was drummed into me during my training at Gravesend, never to be forgotten .

    Phredd
    In the days when we had nothing we had fun.
    If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.

  14. #14
    chippie
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    Default boats ships vessels tubs etc

    Phredd, you may be interested in this little snippet I found out about my grandad.

    He was aboard the ship HMS Stonecrop which was credited to sinking the u boat that the captain, Walther Schwieger was mastering at the time, u 88.

    Now Herr Schwieger was the Captain of the u 20 which sunk the Lusitania a couple of years before.

    According to his sons, my grandad had a certificate verifying this but has disappeared in the annuls of time.

    I,ve been looking into the incident online and from book from the library, quite interesting

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    chippie
    I seem to recall the name HMS Stonecrop from my days down in HM Dockyard Chatham ( now defunct) but can not remember what it was about.
    My wife (born in Chatham) also worked in HMS Pembroke as an Agony Aunt type person to all the new recruits. (Lone sailors Mum )
    All there is left now are memories of days of yore and the passing of time.

    Thanks Chippie mate ( you were not in the RE by any chance?)

    Phredd.
    In the days when we had nothing we had fun.
    If tomorrow starts without me, remember I was here.

  16. #16
    chippie
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    Default The Cruel Sea.

    Hi PHREDD,
    As I said before, the Stonecrop sank the sub of the captain that sank the Lusitania. I,ve had a private message from a chap who looks into this site about it.

    My uncle who lives in Runcorn told me about it and there is a book in your library about it but he doesn,t know the name of the book. He,s just lost his wife so I can,t press him on it just yet

    I used to live in Gillingham back in the late 70s and walked over to Chatham and Rochester quite frequently. That war monument on the downs is brilliant isn,t it, just like the one at Plymouth

    Sorry bosun, I was not in the re. All my dad,s family went away to see but I stayed on dry land, I,m a terra firma man myself.

    Cheers Phredd.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    Hi Marie, Cunard's headquarters were in Liverpool till the 1960s as many of its routes went from Liverpool to USA and Canada, but the ships were built elsewhere.
    The second Mauritania was built at Birkenhead.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    [QUOTE=marie;70215]I have a special interest about the II World War. I am a apasionate of the Spitfire and Queen Mary. I was thinking that Queen Mary was building here, in Pool. I have read now that this boat was building in Scotland. Maybe I was confused, coz Cunard Steam Ship Co. was a Pool's company but maybe, the boat was not building here. If anyone know about it to help me... Thanx!!

    Cunard were a Liverpool based company and the building next to the Liver Bldgs is the Cunard Buildings. The Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth, were amongst the largest liners until the 1970s, had "Liverpool" on their sterns, however not once did one sail up the River Mersey. In an attempt to gradually rape the city, the government insisted the ships only use Southern English ports if they were to retain the Royal Mail North American contract.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

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