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Thread: Outer Loop Line

  1. #16
    Senior Member GNASHER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    But if they dont have to spend then they wont. Do they have money with the cutbacks.
    At 10 to 15 million pounds per mile a mile for even a 'light rail', I don't think so.

  2. #17

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    In principle, they should build on their current success and spread the Merseyrail love to the other suburbs.

    The reason why the old loop line closed in the first place was because the steam trains couldn't compete with the more direct and quicker route to the city centre provided by trams a buses, however, electric trains would be much quicker and a hell of a lot more comfortable.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GNASHER View Post
    At 10 to 15 million pounds per mile a mile for even a 'light rail', I don't think so.
    Liverpool is owed investment as the city has money allocated but got none because of the ill-conceived tram project. While others cities got complete tram schemes. How long is the eastern section of the Outer Loop from Hunts Cross to Rice Lane? 4 miles? say 5 miles. So at £15 million per mile it is £75, which is buttons. Crossrail in London costed £18 BILLION. When the CC recedes Liverpool is top of the list. The point is that since the Merseytram collapse, Merseytravel does not even present schemes to be even rejected by the Transport Department in London. Merseytravel have wasted at least 10 years in running for this inappropriate tram scheme. Even after it was cancelled they were still spending millions on CPOs and acquiring land for it. Madness. If Merseytravel had put forward decent schemes, to say reactivate the link from the underground city centre to Edge Hill, serving the east of the city it may have received funding before the CC hit home.

    The city needs an inter-district metro, that will pull up the inner-cities, not glorified extensions to the existing commuter-rail network serving mainly those outside the city, giving Neal Scales a regional railway.

    In the 1970s when Merseyrail was being planned, the Welsh wanted Merseyrail electric trains quickly hitched to a diesel locomotive (takes a minute) at Birkenhead Park to haul the train to Wrexham - now it would be Bidston. Then the passengers stay in the same cars and have direct access to Liverpool's centre. This was dropped. It is still the cheapest option for the Welsh and gives the same service as full electrification. They will not allow diesel trains in the tunnels for safety reasons. Merseytravel's budget needs to be spent on Liverpool where the economic and social need is, not on electrifying 27 miles of track for one train per hour.

    The Welsh want direct access to John Lennon airport. Reactivating the Halton Curve will give them that via Runcorn and Chester, which is not a part of Merseyrail. The Borderland line will give the access the long way around, via Liverpool city centre. It is madness to electrify the low usage Borderlands line when a diesel loco will give all they want to access Liverpool's centre directly.
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenface View Post
    In principle, they should build on their current success and spread the Merseyrail love to the other suburbs.

    The reason why the old loop line closed in the first place was because the steam trains couldn't compete with the more direct and quicker route to the city centre provided by trams a buses, however, electric trains would be much quicker and a hell of a lot more comfortable.
    The eastern section of the Outer Loop took passenger trains from Gateacre to Southport, via Aintree. I think passenger trains stopped in 1960. The line was designed to take freight to the north end docks.

    Below: the full loop. The disused eastern section is in red. The light blue line is the line from St.Helens, Manchester, Huyton, which is being electrified right now, would split the loop into two smaller loops giving direct access to the centre.
    [img]http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/FullOuterLoopLine.jpg[img]



    The Outer Loop was to form a complete loop of the city using the existing Northern Line as the western section and the North Liverpool Extension Line as the eastern section. The loop was to have mainline interchange stations at Broad Green (named Rocket) and Liverpool South Parkway, to prevent those on the outer part of the city entering the city centre for mainline connections. Only South Parkway station was built decades later in 2006. The interchange station at Broad Green cut the loop into two giving easy access to the city cente from the eastern section of the Loop The western section runs through the city centre and is called the Northern Line. This continuous rapid-transit rail loop is ideal for moving large volumes of people as trains continuously run around the loop, or two sub-loops. An operational advantage of the loop is that if there is an interruption at any point in the loop trains can still operate. Ideal for shift large volumes of people to and from a stadium.

    The original 1975 plan for Merseyrail had a junction at Broad Green to take the eastern section of the Outer Loop into the Edge Hill Junction. However the plan was abandoned. The trackbed of the eastern section of the loop is now the Liverpool Loop Country Park, a route for walkers and cyclists, however it is prone to fly tipping. Liverpool City Council suggested to Liverpool FC and Everton FC a stadium site at Long Lane on the northern part of the line. Everton FC have no firm site for a new stadium. Merseytravel have protected the route against obstructive development. However Sainbury's at Knotty Ash built a small service road on a part of the track.

    If the branch into the Wapping Tunnel from the Northern Line at Liverpool Central Station goes ahead, linking the underground city centre with the east of the city, further justification to given to construct the junction at Broad Green. If recommissioned, many districts would be connected creating economic growth along the line. If a large stadium, or two stadia, is located along the line this would give further justification for reopening. Park & ride points could be located at many points on the line to ensure success reducing nuisance to residents.

    In the 1970s , cost overruns on the Loop and Link tunnel projects, the financial stringency of the late 1970s, the delays to the parliamentary bill required to authorise the works caused by the objection of Anthony Steen, the Conservative MP for Broad Green on the grounds of the disruption to local residents, compounded to the postponement of the Outer Loop project.

    A number of Route Utilisation Strategy documents have mentioned opening the North Mersey Branch line from Aintree to Bootle and full Outer Loop for incorporation into the Merseyrail network. The eastern section of the Outer Loop, the North Liverpool Extension Line, is the only section not to be completed to form the outer city rail loop. The most expensive aspects of the Outer Loop were completed, leaving the relatively cheap to implement eastern section safeguarded. The trackbed is safeguarded from development from Hunts Cross to Aintree. The Liverpool Loop Country Park was created, a walking and cycling route, until the line is reused. The long span steel bridges and tunnels were left in place. When the M62 motorway was constructed in the mid-seventies, an expensive underpass was built under the motorway to accommodate the Eastern section of the Outer Loop.

    An initial 1970s proposed route for the northern section of the Outer Loop was via the southern side of the Walton Rail Triangle, skirting Walton Hall Park. From the park the line would enter the Rice Lane and Breeze Hill tunnels to Kirkdale station. The tunnels are now disused. This section was not safeguarded resulting in residential houses being built on a part of the southern section of the Walton Rail Triangle curve. It is possible to reinstate the curve on a new alignment over parkland. The later more northern alignment using the North Mersey Branch via Aintree and Bootle is safeguarded. The North Mersey Branch Line which would form the northern section of the Outer Loop is still used, however only by maintenance trains. The Eastern section of the Loop can easily be branched into the Kirkby Line at Rice lane station.

    Attempts were made to revive the project in 1985 and 2006 following the cancellation of the Merseytram scheme. However, the current electrification of the City Line would entail a cheaper project with one of the Outer Loops proposed interchange stations built, Liverpool South Parkway, the scheme becomes more attractive.

    Liverpool City Council are attempting to revive the project and in a 10 February 2011 Transport Select Committee meeting stated they desire the eastern section of the Outer Loop operative using Liverpool FC and Everton FC as financial enablers
    http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/...?ID=10728&T=11
    Liverpool City Council has stated, in the minutes of the Regeneration and Transport Select Committee meeting of 31 March 2011, that it is willing to formally discuss re-activation of the Liverpool Outer Loop Line with interested parties. They also state, "Liverpool Football Club and Everton Football Club as priorities".
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

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